Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by jacksonM » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:44 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:06 pm
I don't think it's quite so clear that what the parents did was illegal.
That's interesting. So cheating on an SAT isn't technically illegal, you are probably right, but good luck ever getting into any school anywhere ever again with that on your record.

I feel sort of sorry for the kids who maybe didn't know, they are going to be harassed at a minimum and forced out as a maximum punishment. Those that did know get whatever they have coming to them. But for the most part it won't matter. Sure the families have enough money to live fine with or without a college degree.
As long as your primary motivation is to give your kids a better life, then breaking laws and cheating the system is okay isn't it?

Isn't that the message we are all being sent by our immigration policy?
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by WiseOne » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:17 am

When I first read this, I thought it was something to do with what most colleges quietly refer to as "development cases". It's the 50 or slots per year that elite schools reserve for kids with families rich enough to donate millions. Then there's the athlete pass because sports is big money for some schools. So yeah, as Tyler says, wake me up when there's really something new happening.

The thing that struck me most though: was that actress really dumb enough to pay $500,000 to get her kids admitted to USC? USC???? Really? Harvard, Stanford or Berkeley I can understand, but....USC???? With the rich-Hollywood-parent advantage, they were pretty much guaranteed to get into one of the UC schools without having to bribe anyone to do it. I understand Santa Cruz, Santa Barbara, and San Diego are all very nice places to party, uh I mean go to school too.
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Xan » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:44 am

Mark Hemingway with a good article today about the whole thing, and what the point of education is supposed to be.
If you really care about your kids’ education, you will be focused on cultivating their faith and character; making sure that they understand the accumulation of knowledge is ultimately a tool for improving the world around them, and not just about credentials and wealth; and give your children the confidence and capability to forge a path in life of their choosing.
https://thefederalist.com/2019/03/14/do ... ame-thing/
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Maddy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:15 am

It's interesting, though, to speculate why all of a sudden this time-honored tradition is not only being called out, but prosecuted. It's always worth watching and analyzing the power dynamics at play, as there appear to be major shifts under way. Decades ago, I worked with a visiting physician/scientist from China. In her broken English, she explained that during the cultural revolution many (most?) of the physicians in China were sent out to labor in the fields--a kind of punishment for their perceived affluence. So when I hear AOC and others promoting what was described earlier this week as a Maoist ideology, it strikes me as more than a coincidence that the elites, up to now believed to be untouchable, are beginning to be thrown under the bus.
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:40 pm

Maddy wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:15 am
time-honored tradition
Bribing and cheating is a time honored tradition? Or do you mean millions to name a building to get a kid in?

One is sanctioned. Might not be right, but it is.

The other is at least partially illegal.

About time untouchables get thrown under the bus.

FYI every single building at ND is named...
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by stuper1 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:03 pm

jacksonM wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:44 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:06 pm
I don't think it's quite so clear that what the parents did was illegal.
That's interesting. So cheating on an SAT isn't technically illegal, you are probably right, but good luck ever getting into any school anywhere ever again with that on your record.

I feel sort of sorry for the kids who maybe didn't know, they are going to be harassed at a minimum and forced out as a maximum punishment. Those that did know get whatever they have coming to them. But for the most part it won't matter. Sure the families have enough money to live fine with or without a college degree.
As long as your primary motivation is to give your kids a better life, then breaking laws and cheating the system is okay isn't it?

Isn't that the message we are all being sent by our immigration policy?
I nominate jacksonM's comment as post of the year. So true. It's okay for poor people to do it, but not okay for rich people. Hmmm, what happened to equal justice for all? Where do we draw the line between poor and rich? Who gets to make that decision?
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by InsuranceGuy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:55 pm

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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by dualstow » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:55 pm

Thirded.
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by jacksonM » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:35 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:03 pm
jacksonM wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:44 pm


That's interesting. So cheating on an SAT isn't technically illegal, you are probably right, but good luck ever getting into any school anywhere ever again with that on your record.

I feel sort of sorry for the kids who maybe didn't know, they are going to be harassed at a minimum and forced out as a maximum punishment. Those that did know get whatever they have coming to them. But for the most part it won't matter. Sure the families have enough money to live fine with or without a college degree.
As long as your primary motivation is to give your kids a better life, then breaking laws and cheating the system is okay isn't it?

Isn't that the message we are all being sent by our immigration policy?
I nominate jacksonM's comment as post of the year. So true. It's okay for poor people to do it, but not okay for rich people. Hmmm, what happened to equal justice for all? Where do we draw the line between poor and rich? Who gets to make that decision?
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Conflating the issue with illegal immigration may have sounded like a stretch but the connection is lawlessness. Those of us who are in the habit of obeying laws have to sometimes ask ourselves why only us?
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by boglerdude » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:50 am

https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... to-harvard

"The Story Behind Jared Kushner’s Curious Acceptance Into Harvard"
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by WiseOne » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:20 am

Next question: were the colleges really the innocent victims they claim to be? Test scores get you on the interview list, but I can't imagine an experienced admissions officer talking to one of these kids for even 5 minutes without realizing they're not qualified and are lying about their athletic experience.
“They’re blowing this whole thing out of proportion,” Malcolm Abbott told the New York Post, while puffing on what the newspaper did indeed call “a giant blunt.“ “I believe everyone has a right to go to college, man.” Malcolm—whose rap name is “Billa”—punctuated the point by promoting his latest album: “Check out my CD, ‘Cheese and Crackers.’ ”
Jack’s sister, Lilia, tweeted a nebulous “Thank u for your support” on Wednesday; according to the Operation Varsity Blues indictment, Jane Buckingham also allegedly weighed paying to cheat on Lilia’s ACT, noting her daughter is “not a great test taker.”
Olivia Jade Giannulli, a 19-year-old USC student and vlogger who is one of the more notable children in the scheme, has yet to comment, but the breaking news of the FBI bust reportedly derailed her spring break activity: sailing in the Bahamas aboard the yacht of Rick Caruso, the chairman of USC’s Board of Trustees.
https://www.vogue.com/article/college-a ... eaking-out
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Kbg » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:10 am

+ 1 on WiseOne’s comment. Seriously, USC???

While I did not, I had some good friends who went off to some very top flight grad schools in various disciplines and we were discussing their educational experiences at the 10 yr HS reunion. We had all gone to the local state land grant school who lets almost anyone in. I asked them if they felt disadvantaged or behind when competing with students from the top elite schools where most of their fellow grad students were from and to a person they said not at all. In fact they were surprised at how well they were prepared and equally didn’t quite understand what the big deal was with those schools was anymore.

Obviously my friends were pretty bright or they wouldn’t have got into these grad schools but there are a fair number of studies that indicate the school doesn’t matter when predicting post graduation success...those predictors are a function of the individual’s personal characteristics. So super smart, immense drive, great problem solving, creative thinking etc. etc. leads to success not the graduation location.
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:02 am

WiseOne wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:17 am
When I first read this, I thought it was something to do with what most colleges quietly refer to as "development cases". It's the 50 or slots per year that elite schools reserve for kids with families rich enough to donate millions. Then there's the athlete pass because sports is big money for some schools. So yeah, as Tyler says, wake me up when there's really something new happening.

The thing that struck me most though: was that actress really dumb enough to pay $500,000 to get her kids admitted to USC? USC???? Really? Harvard, Stanford or Berkeley I can understand, but....USC???? With the rich-Hollywood-parent advantage, they were pretty much guaranteed to get into one of the UC schools without having to bribe anyone to do it. I understand Santa Cruz, Santa Barbara, and San Diego are all very nice places to party, uh I mean go to school too.
Those kids are apparently REALLY dumb.
But at least they came by their intellect honestly!
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:10 am

Kbg wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:10 am
+ 1 on WiseOne’s comment. Seriously, USC???

While I did not, I had some good friends who went off to some very top flight grad schools in various disciplines and we were discussing their educational experiences at the 10 yr HS reunion. We had all gone to the local state land grant school who lets almost anyone in. I asked them if they felt disadvantaged or behind when competing with students from the top elite schools where most of their fellow grad students were from and to a person they said not at all. In fact they were surprised at how well they were prepared and equally didn’t quite understand what the big deal was with those schools was anymore.

Obviously my friends were pretty bright or they wouldn’t have got into these grad schools but there are a fair number of studies that indicate the school doesn’t matter when predicting post graduation success...those predictors are a function of the individual’s personal characteristics. So super smart, immense drive, great problem solving, creative thinking etc. etc. leads to success not the graduation location.
Actually it isn't even graduating at all that makes the difference.

It's being smart enough to apply to a selective school... even if you don't get in.

"Applicants, who shared similar high SAT scores with Ivy League applicants could have been rejected from the elite schools that they applied to and yet they still enjoyed similar average salaries as the graduates from elite schools. In the study, the better predictor of earnings was the average SAT scores of the most selective school a teenager applied to and not the typical scores of the institution the student attended."

(https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/ ... nings-myth)
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:02 pm

Kbg wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:10 am
Obviously my friends were pretty bright or they wouldn’t have got into these grad schools but there are a fair number of studies that indicate the school doesn’t matter when predicting post graduation success...those predictors are a function of the individual’s personal characteristics. So super smart, immense drive, great problem solving, creative thinking etc. etc. leads to success not the graduation location.
Agreed, I don't think a degree from an elite institution necessarily means that the graduate got a better education or is better prepared for the workplace. What I think an elite degree does is open certain doors (opportunities) that degrees from less prestigious institutions may not.

My degree from a top-3 engineering school has definitely opened doors for me in my career thus far (and still does). In fact, a friend I grabbed a beer with just yesterday hooked me up with a phone interview at his company recently, and he told me yesterday that a big reason why his boss was interested in talking to me was that my degree is from that elite school.

Is that fair? Probably not. Is it the way things work in reality? Apparently yes.
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:14 pm

I can't help but think that's mostly cultural inertia. Like you guys are saying, equally intelligent people tend to be very similar in their success. The Bell Curve shows this in great detail. But in the early part of the 20th century, when intelligent people were still scattered among all professions and locations, one sure-fire way to know someone was intelligent was that they went to an Ivy League school like Harvard. I would imagine people still have that as their paradigm.
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by jacksonM » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:56 am

As well evidenced by AOC, people are coming out of college nowadays dumb as dirt so I guess it's appropriate that they go in dumb as dirt by paying millions of dollars for the privilege.
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Dieter » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:55 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:17 am
I understand Santa Cruz, Santa Barbara, and San Diego are all very nice places to party, uh I mean go to school too.
Hey, don't be dissing the Banana Slugs... :)
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu May 02, 2019 7:11 am

The Chinese cheating ring.

They named it TOEFL Recall.

TOEFL RECALL


These Feds, man ;D
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by dualstow » Thu May 02, 2019 9:45 am

O0 That's perfect!
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by ochotona » Thu May 02, 2019 2:02 pm

What a horrible thing to do to your child to volunteer to cheat for them to get into college. They will question the validity of their every accomplishment for the rest of their lives. That's an exercise in soul killing.

It's not TOEFL Recall, it's DOFU Recall (DOFU = TOFU)

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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by jacksonM » Thu May 02, 2019 4:32 pm

ochotona wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:02 pm
What a horrible thing to do to your child to volunteer to cheat for them to get into college. They will question the validity of their every accomplishment for the rest of their lives. That's an exercise in soul killing.

It's not TOEFL Recall, it's DOFU Recall (DOFU = TOFU)

Image
It's affirmative action for rich white people.

(I have nothing against rich white people, BTW. I once aspired to be one but failed).
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by WiseOne » Thu May 02, 2019 4:41 pm

And the saddest part is that these kids will be saddled with this for life. They'll never get into any decent college ever, and so much for any career requiring anything beyond a high school diploma.

Sounds like they're mostly dumb as turds, so it might not be such an issue. Maybe instead of crazy expensive colleges someone should just invent a "party land" dispensing with all the trappings of education, except maybe for career counseling or something, so these kids have somewhere to go.
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by Kbg » Thu May 02, 2019 4:56 pm

The Chinese students where I attended university...don't know if they were cheating but it was clear they had a serious collaborative notes making/sharing/studying machine.
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Re: Largest College Admissions Scam Includes Hollywood Actresses and Coaches

Post by dualstow » Thu May 02, 2019 8:40 pm

When I lived in Taiwan, cheating was rampant to pass the entrance exams for high schools. Yes, high schools, let alone college. Intense pressure.

In one famous case, a mother was outside the school walls talking into a microphone while her son wore an earpiece as he took the test. It must have been annoying to take the test while his mother was rattling off mathematical formulae and tidbits of Chinese history.

I think Taiwan plans to phase out those exams if they haven't already, but they were a big deal for a very long time.
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