An excellent article on TDS

[stuper1]

Isn't the guy a real estate developer with properties all over the world? Why would he want world destruction? People are very silly. And then I hear people who seem very intelligent who complain because he sounds like a valley girl. Who cares what he sounds like? All that matters are actual actions.

[Libertarian666]

Isn't the guy a real estate developer with properties all over the world? Why would he want world destruction? People are very silly. And then I hear people who seem very intelligent who complain because he sounds like a valley girl. Who cares what he sounds like? All that matters are actual actions.

No, you don't understand. He is LITERALLY HITLER!!!!

[jacksonM]

Jussie Smollet should get the author of this piece to testify at his trial if he gets charged for a hoax. He can plead insanity and say it was all Donald Trump's fault after all. A jury in Chicago might actually buy it.

[Cortopassi]

Whatever, guys. I just expected a little bit more class from a president, regardless of whether what he is doing is good or bad for the country.

All I see lately is a bully who must get his way.

**And that Jussie guy should be prosecuted to whatever extent he can be, so don't think I think that's ok.

[Libertarian666]

Whatever, guys. I just expected a little bit more class from a president, regardless of whether what he is doing is good or bad for the country.

All I see lately is a bully who must get his way.

**And that Jussie guy should be prosecuted to whatever extent he can be, so don't think I think that's ok.

So you're saying that someone who perpetrates a hoax "hate crime" should face no legal consequences at all? Wow, that would really deter false claims!

[stuper1]

Whatever, guys. I just expected a little bit more class from a president, regardless of whether what he is doing is good or bad for the country.

All I see lately is a bully who must get his way.

**And that Jussie guy should be prosecuted to whatever extent he can be, so don't think I think that's ok.

Please list one of Trump's actions that illustrates your point of him being a bully.

[Cortopassi]

Whatever, guys. I just expected a little bit more class from a president, regardless of whether what he is doing is good or bad for the country.

All I see lately is a bully who must get his way.

**And that Jussie guy should be prosecuted to whatever extent he can be, so don't think I think that's ok.

So you're saying that someone who perpetrates a hoax "hate crime" should face no legal consequences at all? Wow, that would really deter false claims!

tech, reread my sentence. If not clear, "so don't think I think that's ok" refers to what Jussie did.

On bullying? Seriously? Do I have to dig up tweets where he has called people losers and such to millions of Americans?

[stuper1]

I would rather support someone who sounds terrible and actually does something to protect the rank and file of his countrymen than someone who sounds wonderful and is a complete sellout to global big business.

Sure, it would be nice to have someone who sounded great and also protected his country folk. Sign me up if such a politician arrives.

[Cortopassi]

I would rather support someone who sounds terrible and actually does something to protect the rank and file of his countrymen than someone who sounds wonderful and is a complete sellout to global big business.

Sure, it would be nice to have someone who sounded great and also protected his country folk. Sign me up if such a politician arrives.

Yeah. Seems those people are few and far between, or too smart to run for office.

And I will openly trumpet things that he's doing well, like this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... d_ms_tw_ma

[jacksonM]

Just so Moda doesn't have to say it I will point out that ODS was a real thing too. Probably showed itself best with the "birther" thing of which Trump was a leading player.

Having said that, I do believe TDS has been crossing over a line into some kind of extreme pathology. The Jussie Smollet story is an excellent case in point but you also have the Covington kids, the Kavanaugh hearings, etcetera.

I'm starting to think of it kind of like a religious cult on the order of Scientology and this is mostly because of the way they go on the attack against anybody they perceive as an enemy of the cause.

[jacksonM]

This is what I'm talking about....

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... ty-n973081

Combine it with the fact that black unemployment is at an all time low and how is that the meme of Trump is a racist and a homophone still has any traction? It makes no sense to me at all.

[flyingpylon]

Whatever, guys. I just expected a little bit more class from a president, regardless of whether what he is doing is good or bad for the country.

I’m not sure I will ever understand why people expect “class” and “moral leadership” from politicians. Sure, it would be nice, but just look at the actions and behavior of most of them. The fact that so many people are simply satisfied with some level of decorum regardless of actions and behavior is the reason the government operates the way it does. They are all just actors.

[moda0306]

This is what I'm talking about....

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... ty-n973081

Combine it with the fact that black unemployment is at an all time low and how is that the meme of Trump is a racist and a homophone still has any traction? It makes no sense to me at all.

How is the continued lowering black unemployment in any way evidence much less proof that Trump isn't a racist?

I mean it lowered under Obama... and like overall unemployment continued even lower under Trump. What would Trump have had to do... keep the economic trends going but specifically find a way to actually increase black unemployment?

I mean whether and how Trump is racist is sort of a moot point to me in many ways, but low black unemployment doesn't prove sh!t.

I mean... how low was Jewish unemployment in Germany in 1940? -8%. This proves nothing, people.

And sorry for the dark humor. Too soon?

There's been derangement syndromes for many presidents. The anti-war left went nuts when the head of the CIA became president in 1989. The centrist Clinton was treated like a communist by even modestly-right-wing Republicans in the 1990's (think Gingrich).

Right now the derangement (for or against) is only interesting insofar as it betrays massive hypocrisy or change of tune. Most dem "derangement" is exactly what you'd think from the leftish wing of unthinking establishment bots that want to pretend former presidents, the FBI, etc were "honorable" when the other party puts a clownish buffoon in office. Put-another-way, considering how conservatives treated Obama & Clinton (Bill), if you could find the "left-wing" version of Trump (Kathy Griffin perhaps?) and make her/him president, a massive portion of the right would lose their f'king minds. Modestly more than what you see from dems today, IMO, but I could be wrong.

Similarly interesting to the "derangement" of dems is that of Trumpists or Trump apologists with sh!t narratives. If someone had been touting the unimportance of lack of candor, the danger of the "deep state" (CIA, FBI, NSA, etc), or certain other principles that they're touting today, that would be one thing. But most aren't. Many conservatives are utter boot-lickers to Reaganesque faux "professionalism" and American exceptionalism, as well as will believe whatever garbage the nat'l security state or police state throw at them to justify slaughtering or caging brown people, but throw an ass-clown in office who "owns the libs" and gives them tax cuts (maybe), and now all of a sudden there's this thing called the "Deep State" and American institutions were never that great. There are tens of millions of people on "the right" that are utter clowns in similar ways to the tens of millions of "the left" who have "Derangement Syndrome." It's fun to talk about, sure, but to make it out to be a one-sided problem is clownish... but when have facts really mattered to any one with these forms of "syndrome."

And I'm not even touching on the overtly knuckle-draggingly-embarassing hateful nativist wing of Trump support that I see in my "central Minnesota conservative" circles. Absolutely horrible things are posted/said in those circles.

[jacksonM]

This is what I'm talking about....

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... ty-n973081

Combine it with the fact that black unemployment is at an all time low and how is that the meme of Trump is a racist and a homophone still has any traction? It makes no sense to me at all.

How is the continued lowering black unemployment in any way evidence much less proof that Trump isn't a racist?

Okay, it's not evidence all by itself but if Trump was truly a racist I would expect to see some sort of tangible evidence of that fact. The criminal justice bill that was recently passed is also expected to have a positive effect on African Americans. If Trump was a racist I wouldn't expect to be seeing things like this.

Depends on your definition of "racist", of course. Used "liberally" I think it just means somebody we don't like.

[Cortopassi]

This is what I'm talking about....

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... ty-n973081

Combine it with the fact that black unemployment is at an all time low and how is that the meme of Trump is a racist and a homophone still has any traction? It makes no sense to me at all.

How is the continued lowering black unemployment in any way evidence much less proof that Trump isn't a racist?

Okay, it's not evidence all by itself but if Trump was truly a racist I would expect to see some sort of tangible evidence of that fact. The criminal justice bill that was recently passed is also expected to have a positive effect on African Americans. If Trump was a racist I wouldn't expect to be seeing things like this.

Depends on your definition of "racist", of course. Used "liberally" I think it just means somebody we don't like.

Short list here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donal ... cist-meme/

Are they accurate? If so I would think he's got racist/bigoted tendencies, at least at times seemingly more when it affects him personally.

Then again so do a lot of older people. Just how they grew up. Some recognized it and changed, some didn't.

[flyingpylon]

Short list here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donal ... cist-meme/

Are they accurate? If so I would think he's got racist/bigoted tendencies, at least at times seemingly more when it affects him personally.

Then again so do a lot of older people. Just how they grew up. Some recognized it and changed, some didn't.

That article provides evidence of accusations, not evidence of racism.

I could accuse you of something, then write an article about my accusation, then use that article to push an "if true" narrative. It's completely ridiculous.

[jacksonM]

How is the continued lowering black unemployment in any way evidence much less proof that Trump isn't a racist?

Okay, it's not evidence all by itself but if Trump was truly a racist I would expect to see some sort of tangible evidence of that fact. The criminal justice bill that was recently passed is also expected to have a positive effect on African Americans. If Trump was a racist I wouldn't expect to be seeing things like this.

Depends on your definition of "racist", of course. Used "liberally" I think it just means somebody we don't like.

Short list here: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donal ... cist-meme/

Are they accurate? If so I would think he's got racist/bigoted tendencies, at least at times seemingly more when it affects him personally.

Then again so do a lot of older people. Just how they grew up. Some recognized it and changed, some didn't.

What Republican has ever not been accused of being a racist? I think it has become a meaningless term nowadays, at least as far as how it is used in the arena of politics.

[WiseOne]

That article is kinda silly...

His quote in response to the murder of the Central Park jogger decrying "those murderers" echoes the sentiment of many city residents at that time. It was the bad old days of NYC where crime was out of control and the city's infrastructure was disintegrating because taxpaying residents were fleeing the city. I'd say that it's the people interpreting that remark as racist who are the true racists. In order to do so, you must assume a priori that blacks = murderers. There is nothing like that in the quote itself.

Anyway, agree that the "racist" accusation has been wildly overused. It is basically a synonym for "bad person", and conveys no specific information beyond that.

[dualstow]

The Fair Housing bit at the beginning of the snopes piece provides what I was unable to come up with when stuper1 asked for something beyong mere words. The Trump Mgmt Corp was charged. That’s more serious than a mere accusation from a random man in the street.

[moda0306]

That article is kinda silly...

His quote in response to the murder of the Central Park jogger decrying "those murderers" echoes the sentiment of many city residents at that time. It was the bad old days of NYC where crime was out of control and the city's infrastructure was disintegrating because taxpaying residents were fleeing the city. I'd say that it's the people interpreting that remark as racist who are the true racists. In order to do so, you must assume a priori that blacks = murderers. There is nothing like that in the quote itself.

Anyway, agree that the "racist" accusation has been wildly overused. It is basically a synonym for "bad person", and conveys no specific information beyond that.

It's not only "silly" but "racist" to assume that racial animus was a driver of the hate towards these guys?

Maybe (gasp) many of the residents were racist at that time. Not just Trump. Not that it has to be a terrible thing. It's human nature IMO. Blacks have that trait too, often. But it certainly isn't "silly" much less "racist" to assume that it's a motivator towards the trusting by white folks of the criminal justice system. And I'm one of those folks who uses the old-school definition of racism, rather than the "power-adjusted" one attempted by some on the left. Of course, power is far, far more important than the racism itself in the damage equation, but that's why I leave it to its own discussion rather than trying to tie it into the term "racism."

I'm from central, deep red Minnesota. Trust me, it is by no means "silly" to assume that racial animus drives people's calls for justice, quite often.

Oh and do you see the irony of accusing racism on a very, very weak premise (certainly weaker than the one you "debunked" about New Yorkers), and then called racism accusations "wildly overused?" I mean I get it... I for one hate "generationalism," but any time I hear a boomer b!tch about "kids these days" I want to drown them in a deluge of how epicly they've pissed away everything they've been handed and complained the whole way, as a group. So I get it's easy to want it both ways. But at least come well-armed rather than thinking that your "assume a priori black = murderer" argument holds any water.

[dualstow]

Maybe (gasp) many of the residents were racist at that time. Not just Trump. Not that it has to be a terrible thing. It's human nature IMO.

Scientists agree with you that it's human nature, at least to this extent. I was reading this last night:

TRIBAL MINDS
The human mind’s propensity for us-versus-them thinking runs deep. Numerous careful studies have shown that the brain makes such distinctions automatically and with mind-boggling speed. Stick a volunteer in a brain scanner and quickly flash pictures of faces. Among typical white subjects in the scanner, the sight of a black man’s face activates the amygdala, a brain region central to emotions of fear and aggression, in under one-tenth of a second. In most cases, the prefrontal cortex, a region crucial for impulse control and emotional regulation, springs into action a second or two later and silences the amygdala: “Don’t think that way, that’s not who I am.” Still, the initial reaction is usually one of fear, even among those who know better.

This finding is no outlier.

- The above is an excerpt from the latest 'Foreign Affairs' magazine, which is all about NATIONALISM. (Many takes on the subject). The piece is This Is Your Brain on Nationalism: The Biology of Us and Them, by Robert Sapolsky. Sapolsky is the guy who had that tv special on stress in baboons that you may have seen years ago.

---

Blacks have that trait too, often.

I can't remember what magazine it was in, maybe 'Rolling Stone', but I remember a piece penned by a black woman who talked about how she was at a party full of wealthy people and celebrities. She was suddenly uncomfortable when a black man joined the party, although she ultimately apologized to him. Turns out he was Dave Chappelle.

[stuper1]

The Fair Housing bit at the beginning of the snopes piece provides what I was unable to come up with when stuper1 asked for something beyong mere words. The Trump Mgmt Corp was charged. That’s more serious than a mere accusation from a random man in the street.

Ok, let's stipulate for the purposes of discussion that Trump is a racist, which is not to say that I actually believe it. What is it that you want to do with that information? Wasn't that knowledge baked into his election? The charges against the Trump Mgmt Corp were well known before the election. If the American people want to elect a known racist, is there something stopping them? It wouldn't surprise me if the Supreme Court decided to overturn the election on constitutional grounds.

Wake me up when he does something as President that is prejudicial against a specific race of American citizens.

[dualstow]

Ok, let's stipulate that ... Trump is a racist, .. Wasn't that knowledge baked into his election?
...If the American people want to elect a known racist, is there something stopping them?

Wake me up when he does something as President that is prejudicial against a specific race of American citizens.

No, you're right. We have a serious problem with racism in this country, in the populace not just the current president. That's not to say that I think he was elected *because* he's a racist. I think the number of people who voted with their wallets is underestimated.

Wake me up when he does something as President that is prejudicial against a specific race of American citizens.

Hah, no, it is not my job to be your research assistant when you change the goalposts from x to y to z. "Give me an example that doesn't include words." "Tell me something he did after he became President."Edit: I got that part wrong. Addressed below.
Don't sea lion me, man.

[stuper1]

We have a serious problem with racism in this country, in the populace not just the current president.

We have a serious problem with racism in every country, not just this country. Hmmm, I wonder if it is part of human nature? What to do, what to do? How about just having color-blind policies? But that's far from what the leftists want.

By the way, I'm pretty sure I didn't move the goalposts. If you were to find my original post, I'm pretty sure it said something to the effect of "as President what specific actions has he taken?"

[WiseOne]

We have a serious problem with racism in this country, in the populace not just the current president.

Now that's the real question, isn't it? I hear that stated repeatedly, but every time a specific example comes up there are always nuances that undercut the claim that it's a racism issue.

I would completely agree that people of a given minority race are economically unsuccessful in comparison to the white population. However, I don't think that's due to racism per se. I think it's more of a cultural divide issue.

Speaking for myself, I have a completely different reaction to black/African colleagues or students at my workplace, compared to some black/African people I see on the subway with their pants hanging halfway down to their knees and their underwear showing in all its glory. I think you'd have a hard time calling me racist at work, but someone might make a case for the subway situation that I wouldn't be able to defend. Except that I think it's more about the ghetto culture (i.e. the "community" that Amazon apparently threatened via their proposal to move into Long Island City) than about skin color. Some aspects of it add a really nice colorful edge to this city, but others I find uncomfortable. Like, I really don't want to sit on a seat recently occupied by some dude's underwear. Is that racist?