Fear is the mind-killer

[dualstow]

I have no memory of the ACT at all. I remember getting a 1250 on the SAT, an ok score.
My brother got a nearly perfect score.

[Kriegsspiel]

I only took the ACT

fuck SAT lessons; I'll pass the ACT guessin.
-Eminem

I had bad diarrhea and had to leave the room during the test, but I still did ok

Deformed fool, taking a shit in a warm pool and still scorin a 32.
-Eminem

And I think that's really what PS is trying to say. Stop worrying about stuff and just be fucking awesome.

[Cortopassi]

And I think that's really what PS is trying to say. Stop worrying about stuff and just be fucking awesome.

Easy to say; hard to do. See my logo to the left? Pretty damn freaking expensive, even with aid. Of course, if I quit and had no income, it would probably get to near free....hmmmm.....

[Kriegsspiel]

And I think that's really what PS is trying to say. Stop worrying about stuff and just be fucking awesome.

Easy to say; hard to do. See my logo to the left?

Simple.

BE MORE AWESOME

Pretty damn freaking expensive, even with aid. Of course, if I quit and had no income, it would probably get to near free....hmmmm.....

How did your 35 ACT daughter not get a full ride? Much less have it still be damn freaking expensive?

[flyingpylon]

Wow, so much going on in this thread.

I worked for a commercial beekeeper for several years in high school. Bees are interesting, that's for sure. I can see how it would be an enjoyable hobby. The stings only hurt for a little while.

Regarding money and other stresses, as I've gotten older I have begun to realize that I want to rid myself of stresses and that having more money is not necessarily going to do that. For example, when making decisions about things I now place a much higher value on my sanity and my time than I do my money (i.e. I'm willing to pay more for less hassle). I also think that in retirement I can be happier with less money than I originally thought it would take because all I really want is peace of mind. I have an old college friend with a son that is a highly-paid professional athlete so money is absolutely no problem, but I often wonder how that feels and what other stresses his son struggles with. I bet they can be just as large or larger because everything is relative to each individual.

Regarding expensive college educations, there are some of us that seem to fall into a gap where we make too much to receive financial aid, but not enough to fork over 4 years of tuition at a private school without even noticing. I'm grateful for what we have, but it's still a little frustrating to realize that many more schools would be within reach if we actually made less.

[Pointedstick]

My college degree was pretty freakin' expensive too, so I paid off the debt and then moved on with life. No need to dwell on it!

I find that if something is keeping me awake at night, I need to address it as a pants-on-fire priority #0 task. Paying off my 7% student loan debts after graduation was one such example. So I shoveled literally 100% of my discretionary income into the debt until it was paid off. No luxuries, no savings even beyond a small emergency fund. End result: more than $75,000 of debt was paid off in three years. Problem solved, time to move on with life, no need to dwell on it anymore.

So many of our stresses are caused by the feeling that we have irremovable burdens; we come to identify with Atlas--holding up the weight of the world, believing that calamity will ensue if we lose our vigilance.

So many of these burdens are self-imposed and we really can let them go. Others, like the aforementioned cost-of-college issues (and other practical, technical concerns), are mostly a matter of focus. We can't just let them go, but we can focus on eliminating them as quickly as possible by turning on them with our full power and resources. It is amazing how quickly a problem gets solved when you turn your full focus to it like a laser beam or the Eye of Sauron. You'll burn through it at warp speed! Once all of those practical problems are gone, and the self-imposed burdens have been relieved, the feeling of being Atlas disappears and is replaced with lightness, serenity, and freedom.

In so many ways, what we need is not to find freedom in an unfree world, but in our unfree minds.

[Kriegsspiel]

Yes. Giving less fucks could be good advice.

I don't mean it in the sense of "GIMME DAT $125,000 student loan for my African American Studies degree, I don't give a fuck!." I share Mark Manson's interpretation. So it might be more like "I don't give a fuck about having a college education, I'm going to start my own business/become an Army Ranger/apprentice/learn how to sell/something else."

The thing is, not everyone is smart. Some people are stupid. But they are caught in a prisoner's dilemma, getting loans to go to college (because the loans are guaranteed by the federal government). And their lives are kinda getting ruined, because they don't have the same "I'm going to destroy this student loan, one double mocha frappe at a time!" attitude that some have.

Weirdly, I remember PS riffing on this subject within the context of automation/robotic job loss or something like that. What he (you? Who am I talking to? Dunno) is saying now is right, but is a sizable fraction of the population willing to eat rice & lentils, drink the cheapest booze, live in a cheap apartment with no furniture, keep their heat off or set at 60 degrees, no vacations, and cancel cable/internet/netflix/everything to pay off their loans/become FI like some of us? Rhetorical.

So maybe PS and I aren't on the same wavelength after all? No, I'm pretty sure we have converged on the same lifethink. I just don't think it can be generalized to everyone. Shit, I think even more people need to be fearful, imposing more borders on their lives. Because their capacity to fuck themselves over is quite high nowadays. The trick seems to be having the self-awareness enough to know which camp you fall in.

Zero fucks given: the way, the truth, and the light. Fueled up on bourbon and homemade cider wine to write this post. If I kept my own bees I could make 100% homemade mead. That would be awesome. I would only need an enemy's skull to drink it out to approximate my own personal Valhalla. Come at me bro.

[Pointedstick]

Definitely true that not everyone can do this. That's why leaders and hierarchies exist: so (theoretically) the strongest and wisest among us can use their power to create a just and harmonious environment for those beneath them.

Sadly today's elites feel more like robber-baron looters who are most interested in vacuuming up wealth and laying societal land mines for people without a certain level of cleverness or intelligence. Education, housing, and healthcare are things that "regular" people have increasing difficulty affording, neatly sorting them into a roiling underclass who cannot and and a class of bourgeois producers who eat the table scraps of the elite, trapped by debt slavery in their pursuit of modern respectability (nice house in a coastal city, college for 2.1 kids, cadillac employer health insurance).

On this subject, there is a coming class conflict storm, and I don't think there's a coincidence that it's happening 90 years after the last one (Gilded Age & Great Depression). History is cyclical based around the length of human lifespans: as a generation's knowledge and influence is lost, the mistakes they learned not to make are re-made. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E ... nal_theory

Similarly, I expect another world war before 2030 or so--most likely with the USA and China as the primary belligerents. History has shown that when a rising power confronts an established power, war results about 75% of the time (12 out of 16 recorded occurrences in the last 500 years, see https://www.quora.com/What-is-Thucydide ... t-Chambers). Happily all the peaceful resolutions have been in this century, so maybe we're improving on this front, but you never know!

I could be 100% wrong about these stipulations (and I hope so), but I am not greatly invested in the outcomes one way or another. I have faith in my and my family's ability to adapt to whatever trying times the world throws at us. Goodness knows our ancestors in even the not-so-recent past did. If they could, we can too.

[Cortopassi]

How did your 35 ACT daughter not get a full ride? Much less have it still be damn freaking expensive?

Krieg,

Not sure how long it's been since you've gone to school or kids to school, but the competition is fierce at the "higher" ranked schools and a 35, while awesome, is not what it used to be. Kids nowadays are either smarter, or better prepared than I ever was. If the school choice was wide open, we could have found one for a full ride, sure.

I make an engineer's salary. Not bad, not huge. The last stats I saw were that the highest percent of students come from family's over $250k. That's why I get aid, and don't have to pay full cost (we know some who are...). And that's also why it's not full aid, need to be sub $70k or so to get that level of aid.

After one semester finished (last final was today) the end result I see and hear in talking with my daughter is, ehhh, it's a school like any other likely is. Likes it, but not crazy. No green ND blood coursing through her veins yet. My big thing is ND alum are huge in networking, and she'll have many more avenues open for jobs because of that.

My wife and I have the same mindset PS. Paid off our student loans within 2 years of graduating. Paid off our mortgage in 9 years. I have little to complain, or worry about, but most everyone does worry about something.

[Xan]

A college advisor once told me that a good SAT/ACT score won't get you in, but a bad one will keep you out.

[WiseOne]

OK PS I understand what you're trying to say now....

I think a certain carpenter 2,000 years ago said it best:

"

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself.

I just wonder if the lilies ever have to pay property taxes or an electric bill though. Speaking for myself, I'm still sold on the idea of becoming financially independent so that I have more choices available to me - but constantly tinkering with, worrying over, and trying to optimize investments is not what I'm after. Totally agree with that.

[dualstow]

I have a cousin who married a religious Christian who had a bunch of children with her and said, "God will provide." As far as I know, though, it was my dad who has been providing.

[Cortopassi]

I have a cousin who married a religious Christian who had a bunch of children with her and said, "God will provide." As far as I know, though, it was my dad who has been providing.

Thanks for a hearty laugh. If I was religious maybe I could have used that line on my kids...

[Pointedstick]

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself.

Bingo!

I just wonder if the lilies ever have to pay property taxes or an electric bill though. Speaking for myself, I'm still sold on the idea of becoming financially independent so that I have more choices available to me - but constantly tinkering with, worrying over, and trying to optimize investments is not what I'm after. Totally agree with that.

After I reached FI, even though I had all the time in the world to work on open-source software (my current passion project), I didn't actually start doing it until I had a new job on the horizon. I had to do a lot of hard, assumption-challenging thinking to figure out why that was.

What I eventually realized was that ERE didn't give me the feeling of freedom that I was looking for. Instead I just felt stagnant and stuck, and my money worries actually increased since there was no backup income in case my portfolio underperformed or shrunk. It made me realize that I needed to seek out the desired state of psychological liberation elsewhere, and that financial independence for me could never involve having juuuust enough money with a perfect micro-optimized portfolio; instead I need a great huge honkin' stash--and for that, I need to keep working, preferably at a job that I can actually enjoy instead of dreading. Of course, now that I've found such a job, I don't really want to stop working anytime soon! I know I will eventually, but that's why I'm still saving.

[jacksonM]

(Most) Humans need productive activity to feel complete. ERE sounds a lot better than it advertises for many people. Financial freedom after a 30+ year career gives an entirely different feeling of peace.

This is very true. I've been retired for two years now. Bought myself a little pontoon boat with a motor to take up fishing and I must say that as much as I like spending the day fishing in the bayou this pales in comparison to how I feel after a day working on a project around the house and seeing it through to completion. I think the very best day in those two years that I can remember was one day when I was putting in a new flower bed behind my house and it was probably the first day in a very long time that I was physically active to the point of exhaustion for the entire day. I didn't even have the energy to take a shower before going to bed. And that was a wonderful feeling.

[Kriegsspiel]

Not sure how long it's been since you've gone to school or kids to school

Graduated from college a decade ago. No kids that I know of.

If the school choice was wide open, we could have found one for a full ride, sure.

After one semester finished (last final was today) the end result I see and hear in talking with my daughter is, ehhh, it's a school like any other likely is. Likes it, but not crazy. No green ND blood coursing through her veins yet. My big thing is ND alum are huge in networking, and she'll have many more avenues open for jobs because of that.

Well, I hope it turns out to be a good choice anyways.

[Kriegsspiel]

I think I'm much lazier than PS, and even I have picked up some work after becoming FI. I recall Jacob talking about this, but jobs can be interesting if they let you do something that you can't do by yourself. Like, launch a cruise missile, drive a school bus, or smash subatomic particles together.

[dualstow]

Not sure how long it's been since you've gone to school or kids to school

Graduated from college a decade ago. No kids that I know of.

[doodle]

After I reached FI, even though I had all the time in the world to work on open-source software (my current passion project), I didn't actually start doing it until I had a new job on the horizon. I had to do a lot of hard, assumption-challenging thinking to figure out why that was.

What I eventually realized was that ERE didn't give me the feeling of freedom that I was looking for. Instead I just felt stagnant and stuck, and my money worries actually increased since there was no backup income in case my portfolio underperformed or shrunk. It made me realize that I needed to seek out the desired state of psychological liberation elsewhere, and that financial independence for me could never involve having juuuust enough money with a perfect micro-optimized portfolio; instead I need a great huge honkin' stash--and for that, I need to keep working, preferably at a job that I can actually enjoy instead of dreading. Of course, now that I've found such a job, I don't really want to stop working anytime soon! I know I will eventually, but that's why I'm still saving.

This is pretty much what happened to me as well. I think things might be different if I lived a more subsistence style life where my basic daily needs couldn't be met by just flipping a switch or turning a faucet handle. Although it would be an adjustment, I often wonder whether or not a "Dick Proenneke" lifestyle wouldn't best suit my temperament. There is a great deal of satisfaction, security, and over all connection to the so called marrow of life when you must take control of your own survival to the degree that Mr Proenneke did. (A youtube search under his name will bring up some videos that he shot living in Alaska. I found them inspiring). Although our modern society reduces many anxieties related to our survival, I think in some ways it also opens up space for us to fill with other ones.

What I have done currently as money has become less of an issue in my life is transition my labor to pursuits that interest me....working as a bike mechanic, part time handyman (I enjoy solving unique problems) and Ive considered taking jobs as a car mechanic and welder's assistant just to learn more. School is out of the question....I prefer learning on the job and getting paid...for more complicated things theres always youtube :-).

As far as investments I guess I'm with the permanent portfolio for life. I don't have the guts for the big stock market swings. The latest drop has not affected me in the least and that is important to me. I'm risk averse....not everyone is built the same.

[l82start]

i am absolutely amazed by the Dick Proenneke movie and book, i got both as a gift from pbs and i turn it on and watch just to escape city life and de-stress... what an outstanding life choice..

[Libertarian666]

It's great to be young and know everything; I remember it well.

Now I'm old and I realize I don't know everything.

But I do know that having a solid financial position is very nice, not least because it lets you work on your own projects rather than having to work on someone else's.

[vnatale]

It's great to be young and know everything; I remember it well.

Now I'm old and I realize I don't know everything.

But I do know that having a solid financial position is very nice, not least because it lets you work on your own projects rather than having to work on someone else's.

But your not knowing certainly does NOT include politics and certain areas of investing! Or, at least that is the way you come across so confidently in stating your opinions in those areas...

Vinny

[Libertarian666]

It's great to be young and know everything; I remember it well.

Now I'm old and I realize I don't know everything.

But I do know that having a solid financial position is very nice, not least because it lets you work on your own projects rather than having to work on someone else's.

But your not knowing certainly does NOT include politics and certain areas of investing! Or, at least that is the way you come across so confidently in stating your opinions in those areas...

Vinny

The fact that I have strong opinions on a number of topics doesn't mean that I think I know everything. I'm perfectly capable of making that distinction.

[vnatale]

It's great to be young and know everything; I remember it well.

Now I'm old and I realize I don't know everything.

But I do know that having a solid financial position is very nice, not least because it lets you work on your own projects rather than having to work on someone else's.

But your not knowing certainly does NOT include politics and certain areas of investing! Or, at least that is the way you come across so confidently in stating your opinions in those areas...

Vinny

The fact that I have strong opinions on a number of topics doesn't mean that I think I know everything. I'm perfectly capable of making that distinction.

Tell me any differences between the following way I am going to describe myself and how you'd describe yourself......If I am confident in my knowledge regarding an issue then I quite strongly state my opinion. If I'm not confident in my knowledge then I am silent.

Vinny

[Libertarian666]

It's great to be young and know everything; I remember it well.

Now I'm old and I realize I don't know everything.

But I do know that having a solid financial position is very nice, not least because it lets you work on your own projects rather than having to work on someone else's.

But your not knowing certainly does NOT include politics and certain areas of investing! Or, at least that is the way you come across so confidently in stating your opinions in those areas...

Vinny

The fact that I have strong opinions on a number of topics doesn't mean that I think I know everything. I'm perfectly capable of making that distinction.

Tell me any differences between the following way I am going to describe myself and how you'd describe yourself......If I am confident in my knowledge regarding an issue then I quite strongly state my opinion. If I'm not confident in my knowledge then I am silent.

Vinny

The difference is that if I'm not confident in my knowledge I may say "I think this is the case but I don't have enough information to be certain."