Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:42 am

l82start wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:33 am
the mass immigration and birthright citizenship have to go for sure for a UBI to even begin to have a chance to work, and the rate of the UBI needs to be solidly and irrevocably fixed to some metric to avoid the, "vote for me I will give you more money" type corruption.. i do like the idea that instead of countless overlapping redundant and incompetent agency’s handing out money with little regard for unintended consequences, this could be handled by a single office, the vast number of buildings, government pensions, rent, electricity, regulations, office supply’s, etc etc...that could be let go of would be a limited government dream. maybe we would need some robots and some reduction in our foreign adventurism to offset the deficit but both of those would be good things..
I agree, yes. If you're going to give away money, UBI seems better than the patchwork of various programs and bureaucracy we have now.
still all in all as great as it sounds it still seems a bit of a pipe dream to imagine that government could or would set up a UBI in a way that that limited its own size or dealt with all the extenuating details in a sensible manner..
Right. Talking about "how" to implement UBI at this point is putting the cart before the horse. Giving "loans" to people with a "negative return on investment" isn't feasible in the long run. IMO.
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by dualstow » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:18 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:58 am

I also don't like the combination of "free money for everyone" + mass immigration/birthright citizenship.
So you won’t be moving to Sweden then.
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:36 pm

lol

No.
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by boglerdude » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:34 pm

Give the folks on Skid Row UBI and it goes to the drug dealer. Thats why they're there in the first place. We need more social workers and cops before UBI. Also, invade countries that dont provide a minimum standard of living. NEOCON

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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:32 am

boglerdude wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Give the folks on Skid Row UBI and it goes to the drug dealer. Thats why they're there in the first place. We need more social workers and cops before UBI.
IMO we have enough police, but we are using them inefficiently due to bad laws. Legalize and tax drugs. Modify vehicular laws and enforcement to more emulate Germany's. Those two things alone would do wonders, and taxes on American's massive drug use/enforcement costs elimination, and fines on drivers breaking the law would aid in overcoming our deficit/implementing a UBI.
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by boglerdude » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:27 pm

> I think of the resources we give to people (welfare, food stamps, disability, etc) as being "on loan" by people who loan the government money, and by expropriating resources of American tax payers. Loans need to be paid back

The Fed doesnt need to be paid back, and X% of the population will always keep savings in US bonds. So, inflation...

> Modify vehicular laws and enforcement to more emulate Germany's

Explain
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by jacksonM » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:36 pm

I see that Spartacus wants to give all poor kids a $50k nest egg for a decent start in life https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... baby-bonds. Details about who would qualify as poor are sketchy. Sounded like race might be a factor from the article.

Probably cheaper in the long run than Kamala Harris' proposal to revoke the Trump tax cuts and give poor families $600/month.

But maybe we will see a Booker/Harris ticket and people can vote for both.

In the meantime we have the caravan coming up from South America to join the socialist revolution.

We live in interesting times.
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:45 pm

boglerdude wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:27 pm
> I think of the resources we give to people (welfare, food stamps, disability, etc) as being "on loan" by people who loan the government money, and by expropriating resources of American tax payers. Loans need to be paid back

The Fed doesnt need to be paid back, and X% of the population will always keep savings in US bonds. So, inflation...
As far as I understand it, yea. Debt that is "bought" by the Fed can be inflated away. Debt bought by Americans, Chinese, etc, needs to be paid back with inflated dollars or higher taxes at some point.
> Modify vehicular laws and enforcement to more emulate Germany's

Explain
Speeding tickets issued by cameras and by police, highly enforced. Fines for bad driving practices (like bee bopping along in the left lane on the Autobahn). Draconian speeding and drunk driving punishments (loss of license). I guess in the context of my post it's not a huge change, but I just think they work better than ours seem to.
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:49 pm

France has been adopting some of the things I said I liked. Lowering speed limits, installing labor-saving radar ticketing robots, etc.
  • On July 1, Prime Minister Édouard Philippe... [lowered] the speed limit... on secondary (country) roads by 10 km/h, decreasing the limit from 90 km/h (56 mph) to 80 km/h (50 mph)
  • At about the same time came the contracts that the government decided to write with private corporations, handing the business of the state's (plainclothes) gendarmes over to their company employees, to take over the business of the mobile radars in their shiny new fleets of vehicles. (Meanwhile, other private companies have been getting similar contracts from city governments, meaning wage earners doing mostly nothing but driving up and down the city streets, while a license plate reader decides which cars' owners will be getting automatically-generated fines.)
  • More recently, the government added more gratuitous sanctions to the driver’s license point system, which is already far more punitive than that of most European countries, not least neighboring Germany's.
  • Finally, with the announcement of the gas prise rise.
The results?








Image

The French have subsequently done what they usually do, and destroyed parts of several cities in full blown riots.

Image

Image

Image

Image

LOL. Vive le France
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by pugchief » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:38 pm

You LOL now, but when the idiot leftist protesters here start destroying our cities, it won't be nearly as amusing. The stupidest thing Macron could have done was give in to the protesters, and that's exactly what he did. What happened to never negotiate with terrorists? Now the mobs here will be emboldened by the results there. This can't end well.
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by dualstow » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:55 pm

Very sad to see Paris in such a state, again.
I do like the wings of fire on that first shot. Great photography.
But, sad.

I agree with Pug. If/when it happens here, it’s going to be scary. I wonder whom I’d want for president to meet such a challenge.
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Re: Universal Basic Income vs Universal Basic Assets

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:41 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:55 pm
Very sad to see Paris in such a state, again.
I do like the wings of fire on that first shot. Great photography.
But, sad.

I agree with Pug. If/when it happens here, it’s going to be scary. I wonder whom I’d want for president to meet such a challenge.
Let's hope it does not become president case/primer/powder/bullet and all their various siblings. :'(
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