Kavanaugh

[dualstow]

P.S. Andrew Sullivan can write.

And so it seems that Kavanaugh is either a perfect exemplar of judicial expertise and impeccable moral conduct, or he is a lying rapist determined to destroy and control the lives of all women. Ghomeshi is evil, and granting any space for such a monster to defend or account for himself is itself an act of oppression, which must be shamed and punished. Those appear to be our choices, ladies and gentlemen, in this particular polarization cycle. There is little nuance in these battles and absolutely no mercy for anyone unlucky enough to get caught up in their swirling vortex. This is what our culture is driving us toward, and it’s a culture where each moment of conflict galvanizes and tribalizes us still further, in what seems like an endlessly repeating loop of resentment, righteousness, and revenge

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... aries.html

[Tyler]

Uh oh, 3rd accuser now.

Even if you're generally inclined to believe the accuser I think they jumped the shark on this one.

Politics sucks and leaves nothing but ruin in its wake.

[Maddy]

And so it seems that Kavanaugh is either a perfect exemplar of judicial expertise and impeccable moral conduct, or he is a lying rapist determined to destroy and control the lives of all women. Ghomeshi is evil, and granting any space for such a monster to defend or account for himself is itself an act of oppression, which must be shamed and punished. Those appear to be our choices, ladies and gentlemen, in this particular polarization cycle. There is little nuance in these battles and absolutely no mercy for anyone unlucky enough to get caught up in their swirling vortex. This is what our culture is driving us toward, and it’s a culture where each moment of conflict galvanizes and tribalizes us still further, in what seems like an endlessly repeating loop of resentment, righteousness, and revenge

And so it is that the democrat party either wins everything on the table or is taken down once and for all, along with every last shred of credibility it managed to hold on to. There's only one reason why a party, or a gambler, for that matter, takes those odds.

[jacksonM]

7 questions about the avenatti-swetnick story...

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/s ... ick-story/

I wonder if it might be possibly getting to the point that even some people with integrity on the left are going to start saying this is getting too ridiculous. But I won't hold my breath.

I think this whole fiasco is helping to show how/why Donald Trump got elected. Unlike most Republicans he seems to know that if you want to defeat the democrats you don't bring a knife to a gunfight. They play for keeps.

If the Republicans give in to these tactics and let the democrats win and choose a nominee more to their liking, then all I have to say is what good is it to vote for Republicans? I hadn't done so for about 12 years until I voted for Trump but I suspect it will be the last time ever if the Republicans can't stand up against this. Might as well let the democrats run the government because it looks like they are going to do it any way, no matter what.

[Kriegsspiel]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... aries.html

"Senator Hirono has gone further and told half the citizenry to “shut up” solely because they are male."

LOL. No.

[Kriegsspiel]

The accusations are getting more extreme as they go on: drunken teenage groping ---> sticking his dick in someone's face during drinking games in a dorm room ---> masterminding a gang-rape-gang. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary any evidence. I'm guessing if these are true they should be trivial to prove.

But...

"Unlike two other women who have accused Judge Kavanaugh of sexual misconduct, one who went to college with him and another who went to a sister high school, Ms. Swetnick offered no explanation in her statement of how she came to attend the same parties, nor did she identify other people who could verify her account." link

they're learning.

Serious questions: when it comes to your attention that a group of boys is drugging girls and gang raping them, do you generally keep that a secret? Do you keep going to parties with them? Do you not keep an eagle-fucking-eye on your drink so the gang rapists can't drug you?

[Cortopassi]

"She claims in her declaration that Kavanugh was “verbally abusive toward girls,” was a “mean drunk” and would “spike” the “punch” at high school house parties so he and his friends could take advantage of girls. Swetnick adds that she remembers seeing Kavanaugh and other boys lined up outside a room at a party waiting for their “turn” with an inebriated girl."

As I noted in the post that started this topic, I knew a college guy who was also a mean drunk. And one time, very specifically, he and other friends were out drinking while I went to bed early (in the dorm). Sometime later that night, the door opens to laughter and something is dumped into his bed below mine. Very nearsighted, I tried to find my glasses and my eyes took in a passed out, completely naked college girl in the bed.

I have no idea what happened to her before or after. I do not recall who she was or how she got out of the room.

But I have firsthand experience with guys who are straight as a fucking arrow sober, and do weird, bad shit when they are drunk.

So now there are three. What if in a week there are a few more, and by that point they've voted him onto the court? What then? Will these politicians turn around and impeach him?

Is there a critical mass of women that change this from a vast left wing conspiracy to oh shit, maybe he did do these things?

Just asking.

[Kriegsspiel]

As I noted in the post that started this topic, I knew a college guy who was also a mean drunk. And one time, very specifically, he and other friends were out drinking while I went to bed early (in the dorm). Sometime later that night, the door opens to laughter and something is dumped into his bed below mine. Very nearsighted, I tried to find my glasses and my eyes took in a passed out, completely naked college girl in the bed.

I have no idea what happened to her before or after. I do not recall who she was or how she got out of the room.

But I have firsthand experience with guys who are straight as a fucking arrow sober, and do weird, bad shit when they are drunk.

Why would you say that bad shit happened? More to the story?

So now there are three. What if in a week there are a few more, and by that point they've voted him onto the court? What then? Will these politicians turn around and impeach him?

Is there a critical mass of women that change this from a vast left wing conspiracy to oh shit, maybe he did do these things?

Just asking.

My opinion is that (if we assume the worst about all the incidents) if they wanted justice, they should have accused him right after it happened, when there was (presumably) evidence, when people had fresh memories, and when the justice system had a chance in hell of getting a rapist off the streets. I get that it can be tough for victims of sex crimes to do that, but it's necessary and moral.

I think that the #metoo trend has prepared the battlefield enough so that if you get enough women to accuse, you can bring about whatever you want. So yea, I think it's plausible that if women keep accusing him, the politicians will try, try again. Maybe one party begins asking the other which judge will be acceptable so as to avoid a Mutually Assured 'Metoo-Madness-Activated Recollection/Yarn, or MAMMARY for short.

You really didn't need more than one, provided she could prove it.

[Cortopassi]

Why would you say that bad shit happened? More to the story?

Isn't dropping a naked passed out drunk girl into some male's dorm room bad enough shit? You think they just found her passed out AND naked?

I don't want to know. I have a daughter at college right now.

[Kriegsspiel]

Why would you say that bad shit happened? More to the story?

I don't want to know. I have a daughter at college right now.

Wilco.

[jacksonM]

My opinion is that (if we assume the worst about all the incidents) if they wanted justice, they should have accused him right after it happened, when there was (presumably) evidence, when people had fresh memories, and when the justice system had a chance in hell of getting a rapist off the streets. I get that it can be tough for victims of sex crimes to do that, but it's necessary and moral.

According to that link I shared, she was either 18 or 19 and the boys were 15 or 16. So maybe she didn't go to the police for fear of getting charged with contributing to the delinquency of minors.

Do you know any 18 or 19 year old girls who like to party with boys who are 15 or 16? I was never much of a party animal but what I remember from when I was 18-21 is that young teenage girls in high school had the hots for older guys like me. Don't remember the other way around at all, but, maybe times have changed. And why did she keep attending for at least 10 of these parties, knowing this was happening?

Does any of this sound remotely plausible?

This lady may now have stepped in it big time. Kavanaugh probably will have no grounding to sue for defamation as a public figure and it sounds like he's not the kind of person who would do it any way. The other guy, Mr. Judge, on the other hand - maybe that's another story.

And based on what I've read there is no statute of limitation on these crimes in the state where they occurred so why not go ahead and file a police report?

[Cortopassi]

If any of you guys are watching the hearings today, I cannot now imagine that he won't be confirmed, after only 10 minutes of watching.

She was believable.

But so is he. Tough to watch a guy my age cry when talking about his family.

[Ad Orientem]

This would be a good moment to declare that I have lost all confidence in the American system of government, if I hadn't been saying that for years.

[jacksonM]

This would be a good moment to declare that I have lost all confidence in the American system of government, if I hadn't been saying that for years.

I was also thinking to myself that this fiasco is about the last straw for me and it's time to tune out all things political for the rest of my life. It's just getting too painful to watch in my old age.

And I still might end up doing that but I have to ask myself isn't that exactly what they want me to do?

And who are THEY exactly - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

[Cortopassi]

I generally don't like Lindsey Graham, but he just gave a great oratory.

[dualstow]

Uh oh, 3rd accuser now.

Even if you're generally inclined to believe the accuser I think they jumped the shark on this one.

Politics sucks and leaves nothing but ruin in its wake.

I have no argument, especially with your last line.
I wouldn’t want Kavanaugh tried (solely) by the court of public opinion.
(Deleting the rest of my drivel,while it’s still in draft form. It’s all obvious, and I’m sure it’s already been said in this thread, much of which I have not read).

p.s. Booker is kind of a dick, isn’t he?

[Cortopassi]

On Booker, yes. Also these old farts need to freaking retire

[dualstow]

On Booker, yes. Also these old farts need to freaking retire

Senators are supposed to be old. The word shares an etymological root with senile. Well, that was Rome, anyway.

[moda0306]

On Booker, yes. Also these old farts need to freaking retire

Senators are supposed to be old. The word shares an etymological root with senile. Well, that was Rome, anyway.

Yeah but pert-near stroking out while publicly speaking? Leahy & Grassley... wtf.


Oh yeah and Trump too... though he's not a Senator.

[Kriegsspiel]

This shit is wild.

[dualstow]

Yeah but pert-near stroking out while publicly speaking? Leahy & Grassley... wtf.

Oh yeah and Trump too... though he's not a Senator.

Bernie Sanders seems pretty lucid.

[Kriegsspiel]

If any of you guys are watching the hearings today, I cannot now imagine that he won't be confirmed, after only 10 minutes of watching.

I saw that it was on when I was at the gym, but I muted it. Can't be distracted during my swoletime!

She was believable.

But so is he. Tough to watch a guy my age cry when talking about his family.

It's almost like you would need some evidence to figure this out.

[moda0306]

I wish these hearings would focus less on a few rape accusations and more on the serial rape, robbery, spying, kidnapping, murder and torture that Kavanaugh helped our executive branch participate in.

But alas the 4th is dead.

[Kriegsspiel]

I wish these hearings would focus less on a few rape accusations and more on the serial rape, robbery, spying, kidnapping, murder and torture that Kavanaugh helped our executive branch participate in.

Metoo

[jacksonM]

A few more observations...

1.) On a positive/non-partisan note, I can remember a lot of these senators going all the way to back to the Bork and Thomas hearings and at my age it's nice to see octogenarians Grassley(85),Hatch(83),Feinstein(85) doing so well. I'll be joining them in about 10 more years.

2.) One of the Dems, forget which one, brought up to Kavanaugh some legal term for instructions given to juries that basically means if a witness has found to be lying in one part of their testimony it is okay to assume that none of it is true. That was obviously aimed at some lie the Dem thought Kavanaugh had told but it made me think of Ford. I thought she couldn't come to Washington in a more timely manner because she was afraid of flying. If that wasn't an outright lie, then I don't know what is.

3.) I didn't watch her testimony because I figured all you were going to see were the same charges repeated over with no new evidence but with the added impact of human emotion in front of the camera. This turned out to be true but still everyone, even Republicans, were saying that she sounded "credible". Maybe she sounded credible if you are only going by how emotional she was but looking at the things she said without the background noise I didn't find any part of her testimony credible.

4.) Apparently those on the left have decided it is a non-risky strategy to demonize "old white men". They could be right but I'm not so sure.