Kavanaugh

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Xan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:01 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:01 pm
I can understand a tiny, tiny little bit about the stronger pursuit of Kavanaugh because it is a lifetime appointment, but not much.
hmm. Well one thing that's without a doubt is that the left is generally apoplectic about this nomination, and certainly a great many are absolutely desperate to stop it.
sweetbthescrivener
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:53 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:24 pm

Xan wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:01 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:01 pm
I can understand a tiny, tiny little bit about the stronger pursuit of Kavanaugh because it is a lifetime appointment, but not much.
hmm. Well one thing that's without a doubt is that the left is generally apoplectic about this nomination, and certainly a great many are absolutely desperate to stop it.
I am old enough to remember when sexual assault and the like was a personal tragedy that was dealt with personally and through the local courts, and not some atomic bomb political sleeper hold that was designed to make the opponent tap out.

In a way, it isn't fair to us, the common people, to be put in the position of having an opinion about whether or not someone is fit for an office based on something that did or did not happen decades ago.

I didn't mean to seem (too) flippant posting memes to a serious discussion, but the very fact that memes like that exist is a kind of evidence that sexual coercion has been used too long now as a cynical political ploy.

Like a lot of people, I have false accusation fatigue. I can think of, off the top of my head, three or four sensationalized rape cases in the recent years that turned out to be false accusations. If you add to this all the antigay, antitrans, antiblack bits of hate speech that turned out to be hoaxes, and it is hard to take these sorts of accusations at face value anymore.

I haven't seen anything in the press that makes one side or the other seem credible, and there is a lot of partisan hot air flowing in its customary direction for or against, based on who you want on the Supreme court.

If it did happen, she is right to come forward. If it didn't happen, there is little downside for coming forward, seeing as how no woman ever does any time for false accusations, and all the people in her circle will still support her regardless. And the upside is no Kavanaugh.

It wasn't until recently that I believed that women would be willing lie and end up in the middle of a firestorm, and that is only because it keeps getting called out, time after time, in the recent years. I suppose the obvious solution to naively believing any accuser at any time as long as she is female, is to dig down and research and get the facts before having an opinion.

Unfortunately, especially in this case, the stakes are so high, that it seems impossible that anyone will tell any story that doesn't benefit their political position, and guys like me are left kind of cynical, and resort to memes instead of believing that there is anything meaningful to be gained by listening to these characters.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:06 pm

I can't put myself in this lady's shoes. I see no upside for her. If it is to get rid of Kavanaugh because of his views, and that is the upside, I think it's insane to put yourself through this.

This was so long ago, and quite subject to memories shifting that without hard evidence, as a well educated female professor, you'd have to know how it is going to be received at this stage. She is not some stupid teenager who gets caught in a lie that gets taken too far.

Those two things lead me to believe she is telling the truth (or at least what she is convinced is the truth (added)).
-----------------
Just to see both sides, I have been reading comments and articles on conservative blogs about this. And the only thing that comes to mind is America isn't America any more. We are at least two divided countries and we don't need some damn stupid war somewhere to unite us all for a few months. We need some big enema cleansing. I don't see how we ever get together again. Damn, I don't even know why I am letting this piss me off so much.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:39 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:30 pm
sweetbthescrivener wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:24 pm
seeing as how no woman ever does any time for false accusations, and all the people in her circle will still support her regardless.
And why exactly is that? Anyone?

It seems like fraud, slander and sleaze. Shouldn't false accusers be held responsible?
The only one I'm aware of is Nikki Yovino, who accused two students at Sacred Heart of taking turns raping her in a bathroom. She admitted that she made it up to get sympathy from a potential boyfriend and took a plea deal for 1 year. Evidently if she had reported to the school Title IX authorities instead of the police she would have walked away.
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:06 pm
I can't put myself in this lady's shoes. I see no upside for her. If it is to get rid of Kavanaugh because of his views, and that is the upside, I think it's insane to put yourself through this.
When EJ Kanin investigated a small town and found that 41% of the rape claims were false, he noted three reasons for the allegations: "to provide an alibi, for revenge, and to obtain sympathy or attention... and reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations."

It looks like Ford alleged the incident(?) at marriage counselling/couples therapy that she was undergoing with her husband.
This was so long ago, and quite subject to memories shifting that without hard evidence, as a well educated female professor, you'd have to know how it is going to be received at this stage. She is not some stupid teenager who gets caught in a lie that gets taken too far.

Those two things lead me to believe she is telling the truth (or at least what she is convinced is the truth (added)).
Well, it's not like any of us were even aware of her existence, much less know her personality. She could be a vindictive attention-seeking Marxist harpy for all we know...
Just to see both sides, I have been reading comments and articles on conservative blogs about this. And the only thing that comes to mind is America isn't America any more. We are at least two divided countries and we don't need some damn stupid war somewhere to unite us all for a few months. We need some big enema cleansing. I don't see how we ever get together again. Damn, I don't even know why I am letting this piss me off so much.
You'd think with at least two really strong diversities we'd be that much stronger. :P
sweetbthescrivener
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:53 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:24 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:06 pm
I can't put myself in this lady's shoes. I see no upside for her. If it is to get rid of Kavanaugh because of his views, and that is the upside, I think it's insane to put yourself through this.
What is she putting herself through? Most of the people in her circles and in the media hate Trump and by extension Kavanaugh, so for the most part, she is getting nothing but attention and love. Judging by social media, a lot of people love that.

Also, who doesn't love a good fight if it is what you believe in? Even if Kavanaugh ends up on the court, she will still have tons of supporters and insane amounts of publicity and encouragement for the rest of her life. She will be a gold medalist in the Oppression Olympics. Could easily end up on the lecture circuit. A guaranteed saint for life.

It is almost sexist to say that a woman is a wilting flower 'putting herself' through some great ordeal that, if she were a man, we would say was her duty if she was telling the truth. It is also somewhat sexist not to question her motives the same way we would question a man's motives when he bring attention to himself.
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:30 pm
sweetbthescrivener wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:24 pm
seeing as how no woman ever does any time for false accusations, and all the people in her circle will still support her regardless.
And why exactly is that? Anyone?

It seems like fraud, slander and sleaze. Shouldn't false accusers be held responsible?
The official reason is that it will make real victims too afraid to come forward. That might be partially true, though I have read many times, and sorry, no references because I didn't know I would be making this post, accounts of anonymous police officers who say that the percentage of false rape and sexual assault allegations is much higher than is reported, and it would be a real cluster-you-know-what if, in addition to all the rapes, they had to prosecute all the false allegations.

Also, feminists are very organized, very vocal, and any whiff of not believing an accuser brings massive political pressure to bear on local police departments. There is no corresponding bureaucracy of 'menists' to bang drums whenever a false accusation arises. And if you did arrest and convict a woman for a false accusation, you can also bet that there would be calls for leniency (She's a mother! A daughter! ) and comparisons to all the 'rapists' who got away.

This is bad enough on the personal level, but the fact that it is now being used liberally (heh) for political gain puts us in a serious boy who cried wolf situation, and unfortunately, that actually will hurt real victims.

I found this take on the situation by a former police officer to be useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybiGR_oXltM
sweetbthescrivener
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:53 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:50 pm

This is not looking good for the accuser. Feinstein is backpedaling on her support.
Now, after all of this, Feinstein isn’t sure if Ford is being totally truthful. From Fox News’ Chad Pergram, Feinstein said, that Ford “is a woman that has been, I think, profoundly impacted, on this…I can't say that everything is truthful. I don't know."
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... l-n2520256

So, she might not be telling the truth, but only because she is traumatized, which she wouldn't be if something hadn't happened. A beautiful CYA statement. Feinstein is good either way.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by ochotona » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:14 pm

Every false accusation harms real victims.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:26 am

How soon do you predict our civil war? Seems we have about 1/5 hard lefties, 1/5 hard righties with the 3/5 middle just wishing they both would settle down, act like civil creatures, or just go away and leave them alone. Sort of like the percentages prior to the American Revolution if I remember my history lessons correctly.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
moda0306
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 7680
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:51 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:26 am
How soon do you predict our civil war? Seems we have about 1/5 hard lefties, 1/5 hard righties with the 3/5 middle just wishing they both would settle down, act like civil creatures, or just go away and leave them alone. Sort of like the percentages prior to the American Revolution if I remember my history lessons correctly.
I don't know what measures to use, but by a few, there were periods in our history where we were far-more divided. Forgetting the civil war for a second, imagine either of these happening today...

- Several assassinations of prominent leaders within government or the civil rights movement.
- Terrorist Bombings of dozens of prominent civic and business targets (anarchist bombings of 1919)
- Can't find the source on short notice (at work), but I guess in the late 60's and early 70's there was a slew of small bombings in this country.

I tend to think that if any of these would happen today, we would lose our godd@mn minds, which isn't necessarily a good thing, but at least tells me we don't appear as far down the "divided" rabbit hole as we might have initially seemed. I think social media helps stoke the flames a bit.

But one other thing... I don't necessarily think it's the "far-left" and "far-right" that are the problem. I have listened to some marxists and anarcho-capitalists (do you call them far-right or neo-nazis? Not sure) on podcasts and in conversation... and while they have some radical opinions, the way they discuss issues can be very balanced and logical. Meanwhile, take someone from the McResistance on the left who was a die-hard Hillary supporter and wants Trump removed no matter what, or someone on the right who believes in some social safety net and is ok with gay marriage but hates the state of diversity and will defend Trump rabidly with ridiculous argumentation... Those people could arguably be called "center-left" and "center-right" given their actual political opinions, but party tribalism has pushed them into a rabid fervor to support "their team."

I think a lot of times people with more radical views feel like they haven't had a team in a long time, so they can discuss issues from a distance. I actually consider myself one of these people... althought I don't know if I align left as much as people here probably assume given my counter-arguments.

Of course, for every marxist that can calmly have a conversation with you and be very cool no matter what your beliefs, there's one throwing bricks through windows. And for every "silent majority" church mouse who has very, very conservative views, there's her nephew, smoking up the intersection with the black tar from his lifted pickup truck. I'm not saying the extremes are where to be, but it's not like those extremists are the sole cause of the problem. I think rabid right-center-right or left-center-leftists are as-much-if-not-more-so the problem They have a team they have to defend, and they have establishment power.
User avatar
moda0306
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 7680
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:19 pm

Desert wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:34 am
Interesting post, moda.

Purely for humor value, I saw an article that Ted Cruz is telling voters that his opponent intends to eliminate barbecue if elected. Now that could definitely kick off Civil War II!

(I haven't checked the accuracy of said article, I just found the idea pretty humorous. Dirty commie bastards are comin' fer our brisket!)
I'd be curious to see if people agree with my take... I find harder-leftists that think Hillary is a corporatist war-monger easier to discuss issues in a balanced way than establishment (yet rabidly anti-Trump) "I'm with Her" McResistance types.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:38 pm

Christine Blasey Ford Wants F.B.I. to Investigate Kavanaugh Before She Testifies

I'll bet she does.
The president repeated the attack on Ms. Feinstein for not raising the issue earlier in the confirmation process, given that Dr. Blasey first contacted her in July. “Why didn’t the Democrats bring it up then?” he said. “Because they obstruct and because they resist. That’s the name of their campaign against me.”

For some liberals, the charge of obstructionism rang hollow given that Republicans refused to even meet with President Barack Obama’s Supreme Court nominee Merrick B. Garland in 2016. In this case, Ms. Feinstein said she did not raise the issue earlier because Dr. Blasey requested confidentiality. Only after word of the accusations leaked out last week did Dr. Blasey shift gears and agree to be named publicly.
"Hey, please keep me anonymous when you use my never-reported, decades old, un-provable claim to smear this guy."

This whole thing smells motherfucking fishy.
sweetbthescrivener
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:53 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:17 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:19 pm
Desert wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:34 am
Interesting post, moda.

Purely for humor value, I saw an article that Ted Cruz is telling voters that his opponent intends to eliminate barbecue if elected. Now that could definitely kick off Civil War II!

(I haven't checked the accuracy of said article, I just found the idea pretty humorous. Dirty commie bastards are comin' fer our brisket!)
I'd be curious to see if people agree with my take... I find harder-leftists that think Hillary is a corporatist war-monger easier to discuss issues in a balanced way than establishment (yet rabidly anti-Trump) "I'm with Her" McResistance types.
I haven't had the opportunity to discuss this with harder leftists, but I have noticed that the anti-Trump/I'm With Her types seem to be right on the edge of losing it all the time. I have also noticed that the far right podcasters do tend to keep to the issues and are capable of rational debate.

I went to a protest rally at a local university right after the Trump election, and from what I could see, every one had a different sign, and everyone who spoke had a different topic. It was like thousands of people were each having their own, private, personalized protest.

It wouldn't surprise me if the generalized rhetoric of the left allows more wiggle/fantasy room for people, and Trump's more blunt approach threatens not just their political opinions, but their core self image.

There is no room for rational debate with them.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:29 pm

I'd like to ask one hypothetical question.

Let's assume her claim is beyond a doubt proven true. That he did force his body on her, and put his hand over her mouth to prevent screaming from being heard, and was rip-roaring drunk. When he was 17, 30+ years ago.

Who thinks that is disqualifying vs. not?
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:33 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:29 pm
I'd like to ask one hypothetical question.

Let's assume her claim is beyond a doubt proven true. That he did force his body on her, and put his hand over her mouth to prevent screaming from being heard, and was rip-roaring drunk. When he was 17, 30+ years ago.

Who thinks that is disqualifying vs. not?
Those who are not for a textual interpretation of the Constitution and don't give a rip about what our founding fathers wrote in all the papers preceeding the Declaration, Articles of Confederation and the Constitution (as ratified and amended).
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Xan » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:37 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:29 pm
I'd like to ask one hypothetical question.

Let's assume her claim is beyond a doubt proven true. That he did force his body on her, and put his hand over her mouth to prevent screaming from being heard, and was rip-roaring drunk. When he was 17, 30+ years ago.

Who thinks that is disqualifying vs. not?
I don't know that that's an easy question to answer. At this point it might well be moot: my understanding is that he has categorically denied that anything like this took place. If he lied when denying it, then that's probably disqualifying.
barrett
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by barrett » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:41 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:29 pm
I'd like to ask one hypothetical question.

Let's assume her claim is beyond a doubt proven true. That he did force his body on her, and put his hand over her mouth to prevent screaming from being heard, and was rip-roaring drunk. When he was 17, 30+ years ago.

Who thinks that is disqualifying vs. not?
Disqualifying, yes. I mean that is attempted rape or something awfully close to it. If it's not disqualifying then we're on a very slippery slope. I mean what if it's true but it was only ten years ago? I don't see that being drunk gives anyone any kind of free pass to do anything. Its not as if being drunk can be blamed on someone else.
stuper1
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by stuper1 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:10 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:29 pm
I'd like to ask one hypothetical question.

Let's assume her claim is beyond a doubt proven true. That he did force his body on her, and put his hand over her mouth to prevent screaming from being heard, and was rip-roaring drunk. When he was 17, 30+ years ago.

Who thinks that is disqualifying vs. not?
It sounds to me like a young person who let his hormones and the alcohol get the better of him for a brief few moments (hard to believe that such a thing could happen to someone who should be fully mature and developed at age 17), and then thankfully for all parties, either he came to his senses or his friend playfully intervened. Do you really think that one or two 17 year old males could not overpower and rape a 15 year old girl if they really wanted to? The fact that they didn't carry the act through to completion suggests that there was no actual intent to do so.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:01 pm

Crazy. There are so many ways to interpret that moment.

Was her screaming sort of a loud bashful, smiling, "Oh, stop it..." and a playful smiling placing of his hand over her mouth and then his friend jumping on top of everyone...

or something more sinister?

We'll never know.

Now to take Kavanaugh's side. If he did not do this in any manner, or it is being completely mis-remembered, damn, she just put a stain on what seems to be a good man, family and career.

Like Ocho said earlier on, no winners here.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:32 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:10 pm
I did all kinds of stupid things when I was in high school and college that make me cringe now, but I was a stupid teen with apparently little sense. The thought that this stupidity would affect my ability to do my job now is ridiculous.
Yeah.
User avatar
moda0306
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 7680
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:57 am

Desert wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:34 am
Interesting post, moda.

Purely for humor value, I saw an article that Ted Cruz is telling voters that his opponent intends to eliminate barbecue if elected. Now that could definitely kick off Civil War II!

(I haven't checked the accuracy of said article, I just found the idea pretty humorous. Dirty commie bastards are comin' fer our brisket!)
Man... while I think how factory farm animals are treated is one of the biggest modern moral issues, if you come for my BBQ you'll see me well-armed and on the side of the knuckle-dragging Trumpists. :)

In all seriousness though... Ted Cruz needs to whither away into illegitimacy.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by ochotona » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:05 am

moda0306 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:57 am
Desert wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:34 am
Interesting post, moda.

Purely for humor value, I saw an article that Ted Cruz is telling voters that his opponent intends to eliminate barbecue if elected. Now that could definitely kick off Civil War II!

(I haven't checked the accuracy of said article, I just found the idea pretty humorous. Dirty commie bastards are comin' fer our brisket!)
Man... while I think how factory farm animals are treated is one of the biggest modern moral issues, if you come for my BBQ you'll see me well-armed and on the side of the knuckle-dragging Trumpists. :)

In all seriousness though... Ted Cruz needs to whither away into illegitimacy.
Houston is the most diverse metro area in the Nation, more so than NYC even. Tons of us Americans of Asians ancestry here, I've been eating Tofu since I was a toddler. For him to make Tofu jokes... well, it's bordering on fried chicken, watermelon, loose shoes, and a warm place to take a dump kind of talk. It's tribal signaling, and it stinks.
flyingpylon
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:04 am

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:06 am

The whole thing is such an obvious political hit job that it's difficult to take it seriously.

Kavanaugh's opponents are not really interested in "justice", they are simply trying to create enough chaos for the nomination to be withdrawn.
User avatar
Tyler
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Tyler » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:06 am

Desert wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:14 am
I agree. It's definitely disqualifying, if true. This isn't a trial, it's an evaluation process for one of the most important government positions in existence. There are other qualified conservative judges to select from if Kavanaugh doesn't work out.
I hear what you're saying, but personally I think that believing there's any conservative judge out there that the "Resistance" won't similarly attempt to derail at all costs is naive. Both the timing of the accusations and the strange string of delaying tactics in hearing the accuser's testimony indicate that this really has nothing to do with a genuine pursuit of justice. It's all about delay and claiming a scalp in the process.

Frankly, I think giving into the pressure to pull Kavanaugh based on a completely unsubstantiated accusation only corrupts our government even further. I fully support Dr. Ford in having her voice heard swiftly and under oath. No delays, and no games. If her testimony is credible and stands up to scrutiny, then find another nominee. If not, then feel bad for her but move on with the nomination because innocent people deserve the benefit of the doubt. And if she's caught lying for political purposes, prosecute her for perjury and/or sue her for libel. False political stunts harm all women who deal with real sexual assault. And as a parallel path, I think the Senate should open an ethics investigation into Feinstein to determine why exactly she sat on this information for so long.

And no matter what happens after this, hold all politicians of both parties to the same standard they apply to Kavanaugh. There will be no quicker way to clean out Congress. For starters, how about eliminating the congressional fund for sexual harassment payouts and name every congressman who has benefited from it. I'm sure we'd all love to hear similar public testimony from every man and woman our elected leaders have provably mistreated.

Man, the more I think about the hypocrisy of the whole thing the more it frustrates me.
Last edited by Tyler on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:46 am

Ditto, Desert and Tyler.

They haven't gotten rid of that taxpayer funded harassment fund yet? Really. Wow. Faith in government even lower now.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/co ... fdcc555eaf
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Xan » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:13 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:07 pm
Tyler wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:06 am
I hear what you're saying, but personally I think that believing there's any conservative judge out there that the "Resistance" won't similarly attempt to derail at all costs is naive. Both the timing of the accusations and the strange string of delaying tactics in hearing the accuser's testimony indicate that this really has nothing to do with a genuine pursuit of justice. It's all about delay and claiming a scalp in the process.
This ^.

Desert wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:14 am
The goal of this appointment (and indeed the reason so many Evangelicals held their noses and voted for Trump) is to overturn Roe v Wade. With that goal, it would be very good to have either a woman or a man not suspected of sexual assault in that seat. It's going to be a very rough time in the country, and we don't need that distraction while the abortion battle rages.
Maybe I'm naive, or misinformed, but I thought Roe v Wade was considered settled law in this country.
That's the thing about the Supreme Court: they can change settled law.

Well, they can change previous interpretations. Since abortion was enshrined as a right not in any law, not in any document, not by any state, and not by any vote, it can be overturned just as easily as it was invented. That it, by five people agreeing to.
Post Reply