Harry on Bitcoin

[gaddyslapper007]

Hard Money: (def) Hard currency, safe-haven currency or strong currency is any globally traded currency that serves as a reliable and stable store of value.

appears the above def was taken from Wikipedia....here is more taken from Wikipedia....."The paper currencies of some developed countries have earned recognition as hard currencies at various times, including the United States dollar, Euro, Swiss franc, British pound sterling, Japanese yen, and to a lesser extent, the Canadian dollar and Australian dollar. "

So fiat is hard money.....good to know.

[bitcoininthevp]

I'm sensing a hint of Saifedean Ammous in the above comments....

Absolutely! I even linked to his book.

[gaddyslapper007]

As soon as Bitcoin has 1/10th the track record of gold, I'll consider it. Until then, it's basically like a Beanie Baby... only you can't even see it.

Define "track record"?....if thousands of years agreed value / worth is what your implying, well you've admitted you'll never consider it. If you'll consider Market Cap then we only need a price ~$40K per coin to reach 1/10th of the high estimation of Gold's total market cap. Is that a quantifiable measurement? Its a measurement of the collective "Alive" people & governments perceived value & worth currently....no? (You can’t sell gold to dead people...so history really doesn't matter)

Regarding Beanie Baby,....is this even an argument? Have you really compared the two in your mind? Again, gold is more similar to pet rocks and beanie baby's if you'd be honest with yourself. I'm open to hear ideas, comparisons, rebuttals, ….you've taken time to write the things quoted above.....surely you've evaluated your views and opinions and not simply regurgitated headline opinions of the uninformed.

Bitcoin (the design) is the best form of money ever invented from every measurable angle except one, which I will agree is the MOST important!...and CANNOT simply be designed in. That is “peoples acceptance”….your gold, dollar, whatever is worthless if people decide not to accept it. Bitcoin lacks acceptance / value / worth in the mass majority of Peoples minds. But this acceptance has been growing over the last 10 years, this cannot be denied. To encourage acceptance...by design it is deflationary (price appreciation), with acceptance it will become more and more stable pricing wise.

[Libertarian666]

As soon as Bitcoin has 1/10th the track record of gold, I'll consider it. Until then, it's basically like a Beanie Baby... only you can't even see it.

Define "track record"?....if thousands of years agreed value / worth is what your implying, well you've admitted you'll never consider it. If you'll consider Market Cap then we only need a price ~$40K per coin to reach 1/10th of the high estimation of Gold's total market cap. Is that a quantifiable measurement? Its a measurement of the collective "Alive" people & governments perceived value & worth currently....no? (You can’t sell gold to dead people...so history really doesn't matter)

Regarding Beanie Baby,....is this even an argument? Have you really compared the two in your mind? Again, gold is more similar to pet rocks and beanie baby's if you'd be honest with yourself. I'm open to hear ideas, comparisons, rebuttals, ….you've taken time to write the things quoted above.....surely you've evaluated your views and opinions and not simply regurgitated headline opinions of the uninformed.

Bitcoin (the design) is the best form of money ever invented from every measurable angle except one, which I will agree is the MOST important!...and CANNOT simply be designed in. That is “peoples acceptance”….your gold, dollar, whatever is worthless if people decide not to accept it. Bitcoin lacks acceptance / value / worth in the mass majority of Peoples minds. But this acceptance has been growing over the last 10 years, this cannot be denied. To encourage acceptance...by design it is deflationary (price appreciation), with acceptance it will become more and more stable pricing wise.

Bitcoin isn't any kind of money. It is an absurd speculative instrument relying on the "greater fool" theory.
But by all means keep HODLing, and to quote a great philosopher: "[Y]ou'll go home in a barrel."

[gaddyslapper007]

Bitcoin isn't any kind of money. It is an absurd speculative instrument relying on the "greater fool" theory.
But by all means keep HODLing, and to quote a great philosopher: "[Y]ou'll go home in a barrel."

I guess it doesn’t really matter what anyone “calls” it or refuses to call it, it does what it does and is what it is.

Speculative.....yes. I damn sure don’t recommend “all in”.

The “greater fool theory” is also applicable / required for investing in gold, money, stocks, etc. ...no? Otherwise you wouldn’t hold them hoping people perceive them at a higher value in the future. Call them fools, investors, speculators, whatever...it dosn’t matter. They are still people.

[boglerdude]

What problem do I have that crypto is solving. Tax avoidance? technov, you should be supporting it then =)

[gaddyslapper007]

What problem do I have that crypto is solving. Tax avoidance? technov, you should be supporting it then =)

I don’t know your business nor geographic location. But if you live in Venezuela, Cypress, China, Argentina, etc. then capital controls, runaway inflation and asset forfeiture would be problems. Bitcoin wasn’t built for Americans....it was built for anyone who its appreciates it’s attributes.

You mention taxation....if you bought the 2017 crypto hype......sell at a huge loss and write it off!

But seriously, not sure how you would avoid paying taxes with it.....but yes, crypto could be very useful against asset forfeiture.

[Libertarian666]

What problem do I have that crypto is solving. Tax avoidance? technov, you should be supporting it then =)

Yes, I guess if you lost most of your assets by investing in the "sure thing" of Bitcoin, you would have a great tax avoidance scheme!

[bitcoininthevp]

What problem do I have that crypto is solving. Tax avoidance? technov, you should be supporting it then =)

I cant know your situation and how Bitcoin might benefit you, but here are some examples of what people are using Bitcoin for. I am not claiming Bitcoin is a perfect solution for each of these uses cases, but that this is what people can and are using it for.

Censorship resistance. This includes individuals whose payments are typically censored, like wikileaks or online drug markets. This also includes groups or individuals who getting "deplatformed" (block by paypal or other fundraising platforms) because they have views that those platforms (or their governments) do not like.

Store of value. This includes people in countries whose currencies are inflating at a rate that makes Bitcoin's current volatility seem appealing. It also includes people in countries with lacking or no banking services available to them.

Speculation. This includes short term traders trying to trade on trends. But this also includes people that hold long term who believe Bitcoin can become money and in order to do so will appreciate drastically in value.

International payments. This includes people remitting money from overseas to their family. Also people paying for goods and services overseas can save money by using Bitcoin to transact. There are also countries where it is hard or impossible to exchange with online which would be serviced by Bitcoin.

Private payments. While Bitcoin is not completely anonymous, it can be transacted in a "more private" way. This includes individuals who value their financial privacy.

Micropayments. It is possible to transact in bitcoin using fractions of pennies. Especially using tools ontop of bitcoin (lightning network). This is applicable for pay-per-use services like an online newspaper paywall, paying realtime per minute used on a cell plan, etc. Even new use cases are opened up here like machine to machine micro transaction payments.

Tax evasion. This is for individuals who do not wish to pay the government the recommended taxes: income tax or otherwise.

Anti confiscation. This includes people that want to have value stored in something that cannot easily be stolen. Individuals crossing borders, feeling countries, etc. Asset forfeiture is applicable here. It also includes anyone fearful that their government might become a bit more invasive.

Anti inflation hedge. This includes individuals wanting to hold money that isnt inflating. As this use case becomes more appealing (bitcoin's volatility decreasing), Bitcoin will be a threat to central banks and the governments that attain part of their non-taxation funding from inflating the money supply. By eliminating the ability for governments to print money to benefit themselves, governments will have to shrink or get their funding from increasing taxes, which is harder than inflating.

Cheaper payments. Fees on Bitcoin transactions can be very low. So there is some advantage for people transacting in Bitcoin, even in the same country, where fees might be high. This might be the case when making medium/large purchase online and avoiding the ~3% credit card fee for example.

Programmable money. I give my son bitcoin that cannot be spent before the year 2050 for example. My 3 business partners and I can fund a bitcoin address such that 2 our of the 3 of us has to approve the transaction in order for it to go through. Google "smart contracts" for other examples of this.