Gyroscopic Investing

> as a permission-less currency outside the reach of governments

Right but which coin(s) will survive

boglerdude wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:42 am Right but which coin(s) will survive

Yeah. Seems like the prudent thing to do at this point is to sit on the sidelines unless you have good reason to use the currency. The idea is out there; it's not going away.

If alive today....yes, no doubt Harry would recommend / hold Bitcoin himself. Harry was a libertarian and huge advocate of sound money and keeping government out his money. Bitcoin does this.

That said....I do not believe he would include / divide it equally alongside stocks, bonds and gold in the PP "today". (fast forward ~20-30 years maybe...) Today it is still speculative (due to peoples lack of understanding) and too young to be included in a portfolio that is intended for "money you cannot afford to lose" (it has only survived / thrived ~10years).

dualstow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:19 pm I'm almost grateful that it happened. It's like when a dog bit me in the face -- yes, it really happened -- but didn't do much damage. I am careful for life from a small inconvenience and therefore I am less likely to experience a devastating disaster.

Nice dualstow, going to put this into your signature? Thank goodness it wasn't a large Bitcoin investment that you lost! and that the dog didn't do much damage.

I think Harry's quotes at the beginning of this thread referred to paper gold investments, such as ETFs, and the need for international diversification. Thanks for posting that, as it's yet another reminder to keep ETFs and equivalent to a minimum, and gold holdings as private as possible. These low prices are a good opportunity to "transfer" gold ETFs in tax-advantaged accounts to physical holdings.

I'm pretty sure Harry would have found a very polite way to say "you're insane, good luck you're going to need it" if you had the opportunity to tell him about investing in Bitcoin. That of course is the direct translation of "I wish you well". There are too many known AND as yet undiscovered problems with Bitcoin to consider it anything but a risky speculation at the moment. Maybe one day it will become the world's backup reserve currency, but not today.

WiseOne wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:07 am I'm pretty sure Harry would have found a very polite way to say "you're insane, good luck you're going to need it" if you had the opportunity to tell him about investing in Bitcoin. That of course is the direct translation of "I wish you well". There are too many known AND as yet undiscovered problems with Bitcoin to consider it anything but a risky speculation at the moment. Maybe one day it will become the world's backup reserve currency, but not today.

Yeah, unfortunately everyone has confused something that was meant to be a currency with an investment/speculation. Even the people running the project now!

Harry was a hard money man. The idea that he would endorse a currency that you can't see, you can't touch, you can't spend in more than a small number of places, but you can get robbed by some 15 yo kid living in his mom's basement in any-town Wyoming, is simply risible.

Very Interesting to me how different / opposite our conclusions to Harry’s stance would be on this. The ONLY books I have ever read on investing we’re Harry’s. The first by random chance / timing (garage sale 2009) was “You can profit from a monetary crisis” and maybe 2-3 years later “Fail safe investing”. ( have also dabbled in “how to find freedom in an unfree world”). I also listened to all the old radio show recordings years back. (Love the music intro!).....all that said, Harry certainly had a influence shaping my mindset in regards to money, investing, speculating, government, etc, which to me made understanding and embracing Bitcoin all the easier. If you REALLY understand bitcoin you understand how truly powerful it is. I won’t try persuade any reader of this one way or another.....but seeing the comments in this thread it is clear many have only grasped the “headlines” and not gone down the rabbit hole. What other currency / money (whatever you want call it) can cross 10 government borders around the globe in an hour, is deflationary by design in an inflationary economy, and cannot be frozen / stolen from its owner so long the owner is responsible and controls their own keys. (Not held by an exchange or custodian that can freeze or your funds or be hacked). For “deep” cash.....that has Harry written all over it in my mind.

1. Use paragraphs, fuckwit.

2. No. That shit's made up.

Maybe the difference in our opinions lies in that Harry thought for himself and drew is own conclusions using critical thinking skills. Like him, I do not “need” an authoritarian figure (Harry even, for example) to approve / disapprove anything before making my decisions. I used his lessons and reasonings for investments + life experiences obviously to draw my conclusions.

I’ll leave it at this, I guess maybe I was speaking philosophical’y in this scenario.... if Harry were alive today at 85....I agree that he would not recommend nor pay much attention to bitcoin. The older a person is the less likely / slower he / she embraces change and disruptive technologies. If Harry were 35 or younger using HIS same investment principals reasonings, libertarian mindset, government, etc....Again I have no doubts. It is a completely diverse option to the fluctuations of stocks, Tbonds, gold and the USD. Allocating 10% of speculative funds to this seems a no brainer....and still falls within an 85 year old Harry’s diversified portfolio structure.

There are lots of other things that are uncorrelated; that doesn't make them part of the PP. Uncorrelation is just one ingredient. For example, a pet rock that goes up for a while and then craters doesn't really have anything to do with any of the four assets (it's uncorrelated), but it's still terrible, and certainly not part of a *permanent* portfolio.

Sorry but gold is more closely related to your pet rock anology than bitcoin....Gold is nothing more than a scarce pet rock. Yet is deserves its place in the PP.

Bitcoin is scarce, can be physical or digital, the same coin can theoretically exist in 10 different physical locations (ex. 10 copies of the same paper wallet can stored in different diverse safe locations geographically) and yet if one of them is spent the other 9 become useless. Can gold, pet rocks, tulip bulbs do that? You see confiscation becomes very difficult at this point ....all 9 can be compromised by a theif or government and unless they know the password you’ve memorized you only need salvage one to recover your funds.

Children at age ~10 today were born into a world where bitcoin has always existed. They only know a world / life connected to digital world and the IOT is only growing. As these kids grow and bitcoin adoption grows they have no need, no desire for pet rocks like gold. This I fear.....which is why my 10% speculative portion of the portfolio is BTC.

Why is bitcoin going to remain the preferred coin

There's a meme for every situation.

But in all seriousness, while I can't speak for Harry I can at least speak for myself. I'm not opposed to the idea of Bitcoin but I'm personally not that interested because I already have that portfolio role covered with my gold allocation. And frankly I trust real assets over virtual blockchains and am fairly confident gold will continue to outlast the new kid on the block just like it did so many currencies that came before.

Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:42 am
There's a meme for every situation.

WiseOne wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:07 am

dualstow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:19 pm I'm almost grateful that it happened. It's like when a dog bit me in the face -- yes, it really happened -- but didn't do much damage. I am careful for life from a small inconvenience and therefore I am less likely to experience a devastating disaster.

Nice dualstow, going to put this into your signature? Thank goodness it wasn't a large Bitcoin investment that you lost! and that the dog didn't do much damage.

I think Harry's quotes at the beginning of this thread referred to paper gold investments, such as ETFs, and the need for international diversification. Thanks for posting that, as it's yet another reminder to keep ETFs and equivalent to a minimum, and gold holdings as private as possible. These low prices are a good opportunity to "transfer" gold ETFs in tax-advantaged accounts to physical holdings.

I'm pretty sure Harry would have found a very polite way to say "you're insane, good luck you're going to need it" if you had the opportunity to tell him about investing in Bitcoin. That of course is the direct translation of "I wish you well". There are too many known AND as yet undiscovered problems with Bitcoin to consider it anything but a risky speculation at the moment. Maybe one day it will become the world's backup reserve currency, but not today.

Unlike most people on this forum, I actually had a fair amount of interaction with Harry in person.

I would bet a lot of money that he would have the same opinion on Bitcoin that I have. Namely, that it has almost nothing in common with gold and should be avoided like the plague for the PP.

Of course it is fine to speculate on it with your VP if you feel that it would go up. The VP is for money that you don't consider precious, and can be invested in virtually anything.

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:30 pm
Unlike most people on this forum, I actually had a fair amount of interaction with Harry in person.

I would bet a lot of money that he would have the same opinion on Bitcoin that I have. Namely, that it has almost nothing in common with gold and should be avoided like the plague for the PP.

Of course it is fine to speculate on it with your VP if you feel that it would go up. The VP is for money that you don't consider precious, and can be invested in virtually anything.

+100

I don't trust to Bitcoin after its last fall down!

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:30 pmA
Unlike most people on this forum, I actually had a fair amount of interaction with Harry in person.

Really, investing, political? Please share your experiences!

Very cool!

It was computer-related, wasn't it, Tech?

dualstow wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:07 am It was computer-related, wasn't it, Tech?

Yes. Sometime in the 1980's I wrote a permanent portfolio calculator that he mentioned in the newsletter. I think I still have that issue of the newsletter somewhere but can't lay hands on it right at the moment.

I also helped him speed up some software on an HP 9845 (minicomputer). He owned that computer and had it with him in Switzerland when I visited him there but I couldn't do the work while visiting.

So after I got back to the US I had to rent time on such a computer, and it turned out that the person I rented it from (in NJ, IIRC) was named Francis Key. I asked him if he was any relation to the author of the "Star Spangled Banner" and he said, yes, that was his direct ancestor.

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:36 am

dualstow wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:07 am It was computer-related, wasn't it, Tech?

Yes. Sometime in the 1980's I wrote a permanent portfolio calculator that he mentioned in the newsletter. I think I still have that issue of the newsletter somewhere but can't lay hands on it right at the moment.

I also helped him speed up some software on an HP 9845 (minicomputer). He owned that computer and had it with him in Switzerland when I visited him there but I couldn't do the work while visiting.

So after I got back to the US I had to rent time on such a computer, and it turned out that the person I rented it from (in NJ, IIRC) was named Francis Key. I asked him if he was any relation to the author of the "Star Spangled Banner" and he said, yes, that was his direct ancestor.

There's nothing about this story that isn't great.

Xan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:39 am

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:36 am

dualstow wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:07 am It was computer-related, wasn't it, Tech?

Yes. Sometime in the 1980's I wrote a permanent portfolio calculator that he mentioned in the newsletter. I think I still have that issue of the newsletter somewhere but can't lay hands on it right at the moment.

I also helped him speed up some software on an HP 9845 (minicomputer). He owned that computer and had it with him in Switzerland when I visited him there but I couldn't do the work while visiting.

So after I got back to the US I had to rent time on such a computer, and it turned out that the person I rented it from (in NJ, IIRC) was named Francis Key. I asked him if he was any relation to the author of the "Star Spangled Banner" and he said, yes, that was his direct ancestor.

There's nothing about this story that isn't great.

Thanks!

Jack Jones wrote: ↑Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:04 pm I think the glaring difference between Bitcoin and Gold Money is that gold is gold, but as we've seen, people have been coming out the woodworks with competing cryptocurrencies. There's a term for this that is escaping me at the moment.

I can spin up a cryptocurrency tonight. That does not mean it is a replaceable alternative to Bitcoin. Bitcoin has different properties than other cryptos. Those properties are largely targeted towards hard money. The most obvious difference is the hashrate which secures the network. See here for why having hash rate to defend the network is important: https://www.coindesk.com/blockchains-fe ... ng-regular

Jack Jones wrote: ↑Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:04 pm Somewhat tangentially, it's beginning to seem to me that although the original principles and implementation of Bitcoin is sound, the project has become the victim of a social engineering attack that has crippled the currency unnecessarily. See: the rise in fees late last year, merchants dropping support, etc. Fortunately the faithful have forked the project (Bitcoin Cash) and the prospect of a peer-to-peer digital currency outside the reach of the government remains.

Money evolves as a store of value before moving on to medium of exchange and eventually unit of account. We are still in the store of value phase and jumping to medium of exchange in the way bitcoin cash has risked the store of value attribute. More details here:

https://medium.com/@vijayboyapati/the-b ... ecc8bdecc1

Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:35 pm Bitcoin is the greatest racket since someone started selling pet rocks. Of course when you bought a pet rock, you actually got... a rock.

Care to elaborate?

Do you encourage hard money, which Bitcoin is attempting to provide? If so, is your concern Bitcoin will not deliver on its promise of hard money? If so, what specific concern do you have?

Jack Jones wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:15 pm Yeah, unfortunately everyone has confused something that was meant to be a currency with an investment/speculation. Even the people running the project now!

That is not correct. Bitcoin is becoming money. It needs to gain an insane amount of value per coin in order to become (global) money given its limited supply.