School Shootings

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moda0306
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Re: School Shootings

Post by moda0306 » Sun May 27, 2018 6:48 am

Maddy wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:49 am
Moda, is it really necessary for you to characterize my views in such derogatory, simplistic terms? Is it possible that the consistency in my views concerning the modern social order and the evolution of political movements represents a principled stance as opposed to a mindless allegiance to a redneck pro-Trumpian agenda?

As a matter of fact, I do firmly believe that a large number of the social problems we're discussing on this forum are the result and handiwork of modern liberalism, and that it was designed that way. The "progressive" social movement that has dominated the culture of this country since the early sixties had its genesis in the American Communist Party, whose principal, unabashed objective was the complete transformation of society and the ushering in of a global totalitarian regime. Its detailed, step-by-step plan for transforming the culture and eroding the underpinnings of democracy was laid out explicitly in the literature generated by the Party, as was the insidious methodology by which its goals would be achieved. It involved, among other things, the eradication of traditional values and the promotion of a nihilistic ethic that would ultimately lead to a pervasive sense of hopelessness and helplessness, the undermining of the rule of law and the vilification of individual liberties under the guise of "social justice," the promotion of a radical egalitarian world view that would punish those who dared to better themselves, the progressive destruction of the nuclear family and the disruption of traditional social structures, the creation of a permanent underclass dependent on the central government, the fomenting of racial conflict and class warfare, the inducing of a broad narcissistic stupor through the promotion and dissemination of drugs, pornography, advertising, and ultimately technology, and the commandeering of the educational system. Modern liberalism has, by and large, embraced each and every one of these objectives and in fact has become the principal political vehicle through which the globalists continue to pursue the complete social transformation that was set in motion some 80 years ago.

So, yes, I do see modern liberalism as the source of a good number of today's social problems. It was designed to be.
It is no more necessary for me to describe your views in simplistic, derogatory terms as it is necessary for you to constantly describe almost every issue in those terms.

But in this case it's actually true.

Glad we got over this myth of me making knee-jerk leaps from your points to politics and directly to the point of what your partisan views actually are.

I find it interesting that you think that this conspiracy is one based in leftist communism when if anything is clear (even in some of your acknowledged views) it's international corporatism. I could pick apart the rest of your worldview but it's just not worth it. I've already debated Kshartle on proving morality and you're the "conservative" version of him. What's the saying?... I ain't got time fo that!?
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Sun May 27, 2018 8:03 am

Moda, I've never been anything but completely forthcoming about my social and political views. The implication that you've somehow "outed" me as a conservative is bizarre. Your complaint, in fact, is that you are tired of hearing my thoughts about modern liberalism.

It seems that you're bent on finding an unacceptable partisan political motivation behind everything I say. I referred to The Great Leveling in the public educational system--a phenomenon that elicits different reactions from each side of the political aisle but the existence of which cannot be denied--and off you went. You then offered a previous comment of mine (in which I made the association between bullying in schools and the progressive educational system) as proof that my questioning of the four-point-plus GPA scale had an insidious political motivation. Interestingly, my GPA comment could just have easily been interpreted (as it apparently was by Pugchief), as expressing skepticism that the stellar GPAs being earned by the highest-achieving students represented a form of grade inflation that were not truly earned.

In this case, it appears that you were primed and ready to blow a cork.

In the end, it doesn't matter to me one iota whether my comments are classified as "political commentary," "social commentary," or "other." But it does bother me when you resort to intellectual dishonesty to make your point. Or when you spend most of your time nipping at the heels of individual posters for the perceived flaws in their views rather than making substantive contributions of your own.

So why is what I think so all-fire important to you? Is anybody stopping you from expressing your point of view?
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Re: School Shootings

Post by moda0306 » Sun May 27, 2018 8:25 am

Maddy wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:03 am
Moda, I've never been anything but completely forthcoming about my social and political views. The implication that you've somehow "outed" me as a conservative is bizarre. Your complaint, in fact, is that you are tired of hearing my thoughts about modern liberalism.

It seems that you're bent on finding an unacceptable partisan political motivation behind everything I say. I referred to The Great Leveling in the public educational system--a phenomenon that elicits different reactions from each side of the political aisle but the existence of which cannot be denied--and off you went. You then offered a previous comment of mine (in which I made the association between bullying in schools and the progressive educational system) as proof that my questioning of the four-point-plus GPA scale had an insidious political motivation. Interestingly, my GPA comment could just have easily been interpreted (as it apparently was by Pugchief), as expressing skepticism that the stellar GPAs being earned by the highest-achieving students represented a form of grade inflation that were not truly earned.

In this case, it appears that you were primed and ready to blow a cork.

In the end, it doesn't matter to me one iota whether my comments are classified as "political commentary," "social commentary," or "other." But it does bother me when you resort to intellectual dishonesty to make your point. Or when you spend most of your time nipping at the heels of individual posters for the perceived flaws in their views rather than making substantive contributions of your own.

So why is what I think so all-fire important to you? Is anybody stopping you from expressing your point of view?
I didn't "blow a cork" Maddy. Stick to the issue. You have been forthcoming about your politics... until I pointed out the very one-sided and ubiquitous nature of this political theory and you proceeded to pretend that there was nothing political said at all and I was projecting and being a hypocrite or something.

You haven't even addressed that you were completely full of it claiming that you weren't being political. You just moved on. Which is fine, I suppose, if you weren't continuing to lean on this supposed claim that I "blew up" at you or something. If you don't want to get called out for your completely delusional take on reality, don't share it on a public forum.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Maddy » Sun May 27, 2018 9:19 am

Desert, I agree with many of your observations about the demonization of opposing political viewpoints. However, political movements have lives of their own and have been repeatedly used by governments as instruments of control because the vast majority of people are more interested in identifying with a team than thinking through the issues on their own. They can be thrown the bone du jour and for the most part are quite content.

I am a firm believer that the Great Political Divide furthers the continuity of government by assuring that no matter which political party is in power, or how many times the people vote the bastards out, nothing really changes. Meanwhile, the people remain distracted from the issues that really matter.

But I also believe that not all political movements are equal, and that there are certain political movements that uniquely serve the interests of the political establishment by fomenting discord and by serving up a constant array of insignificant themes and causes that keep people too preoccupied with trivia to notice what's really going on. And modern liberalism has been right out there leading the charge, more concerned about the personal pronouns we're using and about recalcitrant cake-bakers than about anything that really matters, and willing to trade off our most important civil liberties for short-term political and social gains.

I simply don't buy the "equivalence" argument. There may be no meaningful ideological difference between the establishment leaders of the Left and Right, but I do see a very profound difference when it comes to the willingness of the people to line up behind them. Namely, I don't see even a hint of discontent from the vast majority of left-leaning citizens with the political platform or candidates being offered up by their leaders. And I have certainly seen no mass exodus from the Left comparable to the anti-establishment revolt of the Right in the 2016 election.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:25 am

MangoMan wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
4.0+ GPAs may not be a participation trophy, but...
Four professors from Otterbein University argue in a recent academic journal article that "grading practices" may be at least partly responsible for the lack of women in STEM fields.

Based on surveys of 828 STEM students, the professors conclude that female students believe they work harder than their male classmates for similar grades, indicating that "women's higher perceived effort levels are not rewarded."
they propose that “science educators could redistribute grades more akin to non-STEM disciplines to increase STEM retention.”

The professors conclude their study by suggesting that “faculty development addressing alterations in [grade] assessment practices could be fruitful to help maintain students in STEM disciplines.”
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10980
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:50 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:25 am
MangoMan wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am
This is an aside, but I'm curious how so many kids these days are boasting grade point averages that exceed 4.0. In my day, that was mathematically impossible.
Are you saying this is the equivalent of a 'participation trophy' in its feel-good emotion? Because it is any thing but, IMO. It rewards kids in the Honors and AP classes with extra 'points' for taking harder classes and still earning A's.
4.0+ GPAs may not be a participation trophy, but...
Four professors from Otterbein University argue in a recent academic journal article that "grading practices" may be at least partly responsible for the lack of women in STEM fields.

Based on surveys of 828 STEM students, the professors conclude that female students believe they work harder than their male classmates for similar grades, indicating that "women's higher perceived effort levels are not rewarded."
they propose that “science educators could redistribute grades more akin to non-STEM disciplines to increase STEM retention.”

The professors conclude their study by suggesting that “faculty development addressing alterations in [grade] assessment practices could be fruitful to help maintain students in STEM disciplines.”
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10980
I don't understand this at all esp. for STEM classes. There generally can be no discrimination. Math, science and engineering tests and homework in STEM are basically black and white, so how can there be?
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:58 am

Just let it wash over you, in a cool wave.

Speaking of black and white (kinda)...
A new plan to change the way students are admitted to New York’s elite public high schools is infuriating members of some Asian communities who feel they will be pushed aside in the drive to admit more than a handful of black and Latino students.

But in a series of forceful statements on Tuesday, Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, offered a blunt rebuttal to their claims. “I just don’t buy into the narrative that any one ethnic group owns admission to these schools,” he said on Fox 5 New York.

...

“The test is the most unbiased way to get into a school,” said Peter Koo, a city councilman whose district includes Flushing, Queens, on Tuesday. “It doesn’t require an interview. It doesn’t require a résumé. It doesn’t even require connections. The mayor’s son just graduated from Brooklyn Tech and got into Yale. Now he wants to stop this and build a barrier to Asian-Americans — especially our children.”

The schools, which admit students based on a single test, look starkly different from the school system overall. While black and Hispanic students represent nearly 70 percent of public school students, they make up just 10 percent of students at the specialized high schools, a vast underrepresentation that has long been considered an injustice and a symbol of the city’s extreme school segregation.



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/nyre ... v=top-news
;)
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:36 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:58 am
Just let it wash over you, in a cool wave.

Speaking of black and white (kinda)...
A new plan to change the way students are admitted to New York’s elite public high schools is infuriating members of some Asian communities who feel they will be pushed aside in the drive to admit more than a handful of black and Latino students.

But in a series of forceful statements on Tuesday, Richard A. Carranza, the schools chancellor, offered a blunt rebuttal to their claims. “I just don’t buy into the narrative that any one ethnic group owns admission to these schools,” he said on Fox 5 New York.

...

“The test is the most unbiased way to get into a school,” said Peter Koo, a city councilman whose district includes Flushing, Queens, on Tuesday. “It doesn’t require an interview. It doesn’t require a résumé. It doesn’t even require connections. The mayor’s son just graduated from Brooklyn Tech and got into Yale. Now he wants to stop this and build a barrier to Asian-Americans — especially our children.”

The schools, which admit students based on a single test, look starkly different from the school system overall. While black and Hispanic students represent nearly 70 percent of public school students, they make up just 10 percent of students at the specialized high schools, a vast underrepresentation that has long been considered an injustice and a symbol of the city’s extreme school segregation.



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/nyre ... v=top-news
;)
We probably disagree a little bit here. In one case, the women have already made it into college, I am assuming, and are taking the same tests and coursework as the males. In this single test to get into high schools situation, there are many other factors at play, home life, quality of elementary schools, etc, that a 14 year old has little control of.

I happen to be privileged to live in a great (and expensive) school district, so the quality of education is not a concern. If I lived somewhere where it was a problem and I saw no clear way out, well, that would suck.
-------------
I re-read the STEM article, and didn't like what I read! Things like:

“Does a course grade primarily reward conceptual understanding and problem-solving ability, or does it primarily reward hard work, reflected in course attendance, submission of assignments on time, etc., or some mixture of the two?”

and

“I think there are different ways to work on that issue, such as keeping feedback on student work but reducing the frequency that work is given an official grade,” Young said.

Ok, yeah, sure. Just like in 1st grade where 1/3 of your points on homework was putting your name in the right spot on the page...Once you've gotten to college you're an adult and if you can't keep up, for whatever reason, might be time to explore a different major.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:26 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:37 am
The STEM article is about the left's attempt to turn everything, everywhere, into Affirmative Action. Nothing more. Talent, intelligence and results just don't matter anymore. All that counts is that you are not male and not white or Asian.
And especially not an Ashkenazi! They have had a long enough period of dominating the Nobel science prizes. It's time for another ethnic group to win!
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:57 am

The STEM article was not about race, the second one was.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by WiseOne » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:58 am

Wow, I just read that STEM article. I can't even count the ways in which I find it offensive.

It ignores the fact that women are under-represented in STEM from day 1 of freshman year. Unless something fundamental about college has changed, grades don't start happening until after that. Slight cause and effect problem there. It then says that women are underperforming whiners, and the only way to fix it is to artificially inflate their grades. I suspect my research coordinators, postbacc research assistant, and postdoctoral fellow (all women) would take offense at the prospect of grade inflation diluting their achievements and making their undergraduate records suspect.

Also before you ask: I didn't pick these women for my lab based on gender. They were all rock star candidates and that was it. I've had plenty of male students, postdocs etc in the past, and two men in the lab currently.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:58 am

WiseOne wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:58 am
Wow, I just read that STEM article. I can't even count the ways in which I find it offensive.

It ignores the fact that women are under-represented in STEM from day 1 of freshman year. Unless something fundamental about college has changed, grades don't start happening until after that. Slight cause and effect problem there. It then says that women are underperforming whiners, and the only way to fix it is to artificially inflate their grades. I suspect my research coordinators, postbacc research assistant, and postdoctoral fellow (all women) would take offense at the prospect of grade inflation diluting their achievements and making their undergraduate records suspect.

Also before you ask: I didn't pick these women for my lab based on gender. They were all rock star candidates and that was it. I've had plenty of male students, postdocs etc in the past, and two men in the lab currently.
Yes, the greatest victims of "affirmative action" are the people in the "favored class" who actually earn their plaudits honestly. I know I would be steamed if I were a woman or non-Asian minority person and everyone assumed that I got where I was via prejudice.

Fortunately, as an Ashkenazi male I don't have to worry about that. ;)
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:53 pm

Here's another good one:
The Daily Caller News Foundation reports that Gutiérrez (left) has received National Science Foundation and Bureau of Educational Research grants to “incorporate diversity into math education” (not bad in and of itself) and encourages teachers to use “creative insubordination” (?).

She has helped teachers “develop their political knowledge,” and encourages them to help their students develop “empathy” for those who answer questions incorrectly because of “different mathematical assumptions.” Math should be a “moral issue” rather than “rational” one, she says.

Gutiérrez has a low rating on RateMyProfessors.com largely because her students either love or hate her instruction. Among the critical reviews, which make clear Gutiérrez has been preaching her math-is-a-verb concept for a while:
She focuses about spreading her ideologies more so than teaching the subjects. Her ideas are not sane; she talks about privilege all the time. These classes are filled too much with her personal ideologies. …

Listened to her at the [National Council of Teachers of Mathematics] Regional. I will disclose that I am of color. Mathematics is a Noun not a Verb. Gutierrez proclaims herself as a scholar who argues mathematics operate as whiteness and I was quite embarrassed that I shared the same intellectual space with someone who is confused about math. Students benefit from truth not fiction. …

Dr. G professes social justice as a constant practice, and stemming from the understanding of other’s circumstances. She repeatedly holds us after class ends, making rude comments to the students who leave, including insulting a student who had to leave class to go to her job.
Positive reviews praise Gutiérrez for revealing that “education and teaching were part of system designed to stop children from questioning” and for “not allowing for bigotry” in class.
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/48114/
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:09 am

This spring the U.S. Education Department reported that in the 2015-2016 school year, "nearly 240 schools ... reported at least 1 incident involving a school-related shooting." The number is far higher than most other estimates.

But NPR reached out to every one of those schools repeatedly over the course of three months and found that more than two-thirds of these reported incidents never happened.
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08 ... hat-werent
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:46 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:09 am
This spring the U.S. Education Department reported that in the 2015-2016 school year, "nearly 240 schools ... reported at least 1 incident involving a school-related shooting." The number is far higher than most other estimates.

But NPR reached out to every one of those schools repeatedly over the course of three months and found that more than two-thirds of these reported incidents never happened.
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08 ... hat-werent
So you have questions that are ambiguous, school districts that likely want to under-report, a government that doesn't know what it is doing, and a liberal news outlet (gasp?!) that did a story on how they are over-reported? I would imagine gun-owning conservatives are surprised at that!

And I am surprised the final number is anywhere near reality.
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Re: School Shootings

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon May 13, 2019 10:08 pm

There was another school shooting in Colorado recently. Initial reports are that 3 young men rushed the shooters and disarmed one, saving the lives of their classmates. One was shot and killed while the other two wrestled the gun away. A private security guard took down the other shooter.

One of the perpetrators, who I presume is destined for federal prison, is sticking with their claim of being a female-to-male transgender. IE, in 2019, an actual male who just happens to have a vagina, who would of course go to a prison filled with other men.

A bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
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