The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Yup.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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This may be a combination of you-find-what-you’re-looking-for and/or fake news but I found this video more than a bit disturbing.

I’d love better minds than mine give me their opinion.

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h5iv6sECGU&app=desktop
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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PP67 wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:11 pm This may be a combination of you-find-what-you’re-looking-for and/or fake news but I found this video more than a bit disturbing.

I’d love better minds than mine give me their opinion.

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h5iv6sECGU&app=desktop
My first take is that it isn't as sinister as that guy painted it. It seems like they're essentially making their own political party and running against other parties, right? Other than the campaign finance stuff, nothing they're doing is illegal as far as I know. They're swampy ilike everyone else is in national politics, with the "man behind the curtain" aspect, as is seemingly every other politician. The fact is, people vote for them if they persuade them to vote for them.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Kriegsspiel wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:10 pm
PP67 wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:11 pm This may be a combination of you-find-what-you’re-looking-for and/or fake news but I found this video more than a bit disturbing.

I’d love better minds than mine give me their opinion.

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h5iv6sECGU&app=desktop
My first take is that it isn't as sinister as that guy painted it. It seems like they're essentially making their own political party and running against other parties, right? Other than the campaign finance stuff, nothing they're doing is illegal as far as I know. They're swampy ilike everyone else is in national politics, with the "man behind the curtain" aspect, as is seemingly every other politician. The fact is, people vote for them if they persuade them to vote for them.
I'm pretty sure that if you look hard enough you can probably find youtube videos showing convincing and unequivocal proof that Donald Trump is a puppet of Vladimir Putin.

Having said that, I think you need look no further than college campuses to realize that a certain mindset has taken hold and it can be quite scary listening to what is coming out of the mouths of people like AOC and company. My granddaughter is currently dating a guy in his third year of college working on a degree in mechanical engineering and when I have sat down to talk with him he sounds like a broken record of leftist talking points. I'm actually quite interested in his field of study, which is robotics, but when I attempt to engage in conversation it always turns political and if I have anything to say in response, he literally turns away as though to tell me he isn't interested and is totally tuning me out. The other day he informed me that climate change was actually much worse than we have been led to believe because certain people are deliberately suppressing the evidence for the benefit of oil companies. My experience investigating the subject being much the opposite, I found that to be quite an astounding claim but it was obvious to me that he thought he was speaking the absolute truth and there was nothing more to say.

So yes, I do get the feeling that there is really something going on here but I'm not big on these kinds of grand conspiracy theories.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Alt-Left screams in pregnant Chelsea Clinton’s face and blames her for the Christchurch mosque massacre.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Trump aside, the other side is appearing increasingly sane.
Of course, there are fine horrible people on both sides.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Do you remember when Trump said something like that: that there are good people on both sides. He was speaking of people divided on whether Confederate statues should remain standing. However, the media made it sound like he was talking about white supremacists. The media lies, which is related to the left eating itself, because liars always have to circle back to cover their tracks.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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stuper1 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:18 am Do you remember when Trump said something like that: that there are good people on both sides.
That's what I was referencing. I even put the "fine' in, crossed out, to make it extra obvious.
He was speaking of people divided on whether Confederate statues should remain standing. However, the media made it sound like he was talking about white supremacists. The media lies, which is related to the left eating itself, because liars always have to circle back to cover their tracks.
I think he had just been asked about Charlottesville when he made that comment, although I honestly don't remember.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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I honestly don't remember either. He may well have just been asked about Charlottesville. I think a lot of conservative people would say that Charlottesville at its heart was about whether Confederate statues should be allowed to remain. A lot of liberal people would say it was about white supremacy. I know that the media portrays it as being about white supremacy. There's a big difference between arguing that a culture should be allowed to survive and arguing that a culture is supreme.

I certainly don't believe that whites are supreme, but I do believe that American culture deserves to survive as much as any other culture. And I want all cultures to survive. I don't want to live in a world where everybody is part of one huge mono-culture.

I think I would be an example of what Trump was talking about. I am white. I have black friends, brown friends (actually married to a dark brown legal immigrant), yellow friends, etc. I don't hate anybody, not legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, homosexuals, etc. I would say that relative to the general population, I am a "good person" in the context of what Trump was saying about there being good people on both sides of the debate. All I'm saying is that what Trump said was very accurate, and yet the media portrayed it as another example of Hitler coming back to life.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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He said the "fine people" part first, and then moved on to Robert E Lee.
Can't imagine why people think he sympathizes with some of the supremacists. ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmaZR8E12bs

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that there were no "fine people" on that other side.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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And then we get told that when Trump calls them fake news that he is threatening the First Amendment. All he's doing is saying the truth. Guess what, the President has a First Amendment right too.

If you would have told me 5 years ago that I would be supporting Donald Trump as President, I would have laughed myself silly. But truly I am very glad that he is President. It has opened my eyes to the truth that 99% of the political stuff that we hear in the media is propaganda.

For many years, I was an avid NPR listener and was convinced that they are fairly even-handed politically. Let's just say that I am no longer convinced. Now if I turn them on for a few minutes, their grave, measured, holier-than-thou virtue-signaling makes me want to puke.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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dualstow wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:01 pm He said the "fine people" part first, and then moved on to Robert E Lee.
Can't imagine why people think he sympathizes with some of the supremacists. ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmaZR8E12bs

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that there were no "fine people" on that other side.
Until very, VERY recently, it was virtually universally accepted in both the North and the South that Lee in particular was a virtuous man worthy of many accolades. Are you saying there have been virtually no "fine people" in the US until about 20 years ago?
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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stuper1 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:05 pm For many years, I was an avid NPR listener and was convinced that they are fairly even-handed politically. Let's just say that I am no longer convinced. Now if I turn them on for a few minutes, their grave, measured, holier-than-thou virtue-signaling makes me want to puke.
O0 On that, we definitely agree. There used to be stories from which you could still learn something. There are still a few science shows, and Living on Earth, but in general it's just identity identity identity every damn day. I know that because I still turn it on, but I usually end up switching it off promptly.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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dualstow wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:15 pm
stuper1 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:05 pm For many years, I was an avid NPR listener and was convinced that they are fairly even-handed politically. Let's just say that I am no longer convinced. Now if I turn them on for a few minutes, their grave, measured, holier-than-thou virtue-signaling makes me want to puke.
O0 On that, we definitely agree. There used to be stories from which you could still learn something. There are still a few science shows, and Living on Earth, but in general it's just identity identity identity every damn day. I know that because I still turn it on, but I usually end up switching it off promptly.
Good to hear.

Another word for "identity identity identity" is "racism". The real racists are the ones on the left who can't talk about anything except "identity". Meanwhile they are accusing conservatives of being racists when conservatives just want to get on with life in a color-blind way.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Xan wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:13 pm
dualstow wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:01 pm He said the "fine people" part first, and then moved on to Robert E Lee.
Can't imagine why people think he sympathizes with some of the supremacists. ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmaZR8E12bs

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that there were no "fine people" on that other side.
Until very, VERY recently, it was virtually universally accepted in both the North and the South that Lee in particular was a virtuous man worthy of many accolades. Are you saying there have been virtually no "fine people" in the US until about 20 years ago?
No Xan, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. There are things about Robert E Lee that I also respect. In my opinion, both sides showed up at Charlottesville to make trouble. I know that a great many people disagree with that opinion.
Trump's words were spoken off the cuff and not prepared, so maybe I should cut him a little more slack, but I cannot, because of context.
Yes, he said that white supremacists are bad. He did throw us that bone. However, his overall speech was (and remains) as slippery as Ilhan Omar's. Does anyone really think that Omar is *only* concerned about the Israel lobby's influence on America? Does anyone really think that Trump doesn't support the extreme right?

Do you remember when Libertarian666 insisted that Trump never said the press is the enemy of the people, but only that fake news is the enemy of the people? Whether that was technically true or not, it became technically false later on, when Trump tweeted "The New York Times" <are> the enemy of the people." I reprinted that tweet, and techno, your response was that, well, the NYT is fake news. So, they're not the press?

I remember Al Franken defending the Democrats and the Left on Air America Radio (now defunct, I think). He would defend them to a fault, to the point where a left/Democrat caller told him that he was actually doing his side a disservice, because he would just try to make technical points and was, in the process, obfuscating the truth.

Well, I think that's what fervent Trump supporters are doing. There are some things, some actions, that I like about Trump. But to try to glean from the repeated quoting of that speech's phrase, "fine people on both sides", the notion that Trump was somehow being misrepresented, is crazy. We have the context of all his other words and tweets.

If you're a white supremacist and you view Trump's response to Charlottesville, are you going to think, "Oh darn, he was just giving props to Robert E Lee?" or are you going to be emboldened.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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I believe the latter, and that's why I think the quote gets repeated. If CNN used the quote to say the Donald Trump is a white supremacist and some kind of nazi supporter, then they are wrong or lying. I think they repeat the quote as evidence that Trump is being irresponsible adn emboldening the haters.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Sounds to me like we disagree on this matter. When I hear Trump say that there are fine people on both sides, I hear him saying the truth. No more, no less.

Do you see conservatives accosting liberal politicians and their families in restaurants and shouting them out of a quiet family dinner?

When you see stuff like that, does it make you wonder who the real aggressor at Charlottesville was?
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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stuper1 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:44 pm Sounds to me like we disagree on this matter. When I hear Trump say that there are fine people on both sides, I hear him saying the truth. No more, no less.

Do you see conservatives accosting liberal politicians and their families in restaurants and shouting them out of a quiet family dinner?
I do hate that. Sarah Sanders being turned away from any establishment (although: bakery defense?), Spicey being screamed at in an Apple store by Shree (I forget her last name). Maxine Waters calling for this kind of behavior. It's all barbaric.
When you see stuff like that, does it make you wonder who the real aggressor at Charlottesville was?
Oh, I think antifa was every bit as nauseating as the white power people. In fact, I remember hating antifa more. Although I didn't have captions on, and I thought the white power people were merely saying "You will not replace us." O0 I'm smiling, but that's a true statement.

--
Ok, I wouldn't even mind leaving the Lee statue up myself if I thought there were a net benefit. Suppose I'm the final authority on the matter - scary thought, I know. O0 I would never pull Dukes of Hazzard from cable, depriving Bo Duke (John Schneider, New York stater) of residuals. I would not even blur out the Confederate Flag from his car (called The General Lee if I recall). Why not? Because you can watch the show and see that the Duke brothers are not stringing up African Americans. Never meanin' no harm- it's in the theme song! O0 We can't erase all movies and shows from a different time.

These statues probably cause a lot of pain, and not just for the "triggered" "snowflakes." While Robert E Lee should absolutely remain in history books and museums (as should Joseph Stalin), it's probably for the best that we don't have a big monument to him in this day and age. He was only fighting for his side, etc etc, but his statue represents slavery, like it or not. There is no 'never meanin' no harm' context, unless it's in a history book or written on the plaque of a museum exhibit.

Would these statues survive antifa terrorists anyway?

--
Now, let's say you're the President of the United States, and you feel for the 3 people that only came to save the statue, not the horde with tiki torches saying "Jews will not replace us." But, you saw what happened. You know a woman was even murdered by car. You are the President. You have a message for the people, and you know they're going to listen to you whether they love you or hate you. You're going to call out antifa thugs and white supremacists; that's clear.

Is your overriding message to the masses going to be, "There were fine people on both sides" with an added footnote?
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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A pretty good way to turn everyday people who want to keep the statues into pitchfork-bearing white supremacists is probably to completely eliminate their standing in the public square.

These folks see the President completely excoriated for years on end for daring to say the slightest nice thing about them. The SLIGHTEST. This shows them that "society" has completely abandoned them. They have no hope of their viewpoint ever getting an honest hearing. May as well grab the pitchfork!

Far from emboldening anybody, I see Trump's remarks as an attempt at real unification and dialogue in this country. It was a message of moderation. And he is constantly destroyed for it in the media.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Xan, we'll disagree on the emboldening, however I agree with your take on the sentiment of "everyday people" if you are referring to the white working class, blue collar up through and including the middle class."

I absolutely see how they feel let down -- in general. I'm not taking about the statue here -- and I think this is a big part of why Trump won the election. I have read their interviews.

I guess I just don't think that was the time or place to stick up for that group, as it was a subtlety lost on the (possibly stupid) masses.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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I also think if Trump said something nice about the white working class and at the same time was not calling his opponents "low-IQ individuals", "grab'em by the pussy", imitating disabled people, "lock'er up", and so on, he probably wouldn't be vilified for that nice thing he said about white people.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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I think you are right. And I hope you are right. It certainly will be interesting.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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dualstow wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:15 am Alt-Left screams in pregnant Chelsea Clinton’s face and blames her for the Christchurch mosque massacre.
I've been out of the loop for a few days. That Muslim Ctrl-Left female was yelling at Chelsea Clinton because Chelsea Clinton caused a shooting by twittering that people shouldn't be anti-Semitic? Then uploaded a video of her yelling at her on twitter? Then everyone twitted about it?
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Kriegsspiel wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:11 pm
dualstow wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:15 am Alt-Left screams in pregnant Chelsea Clinton’s face and blames her for the Christchurch mosque massacre.
I've been out of the loop for a few days. That Muslim Ctrl-Left female was yelling at Chelsea Clinton because Chelsea Clinton caused a shooting by twittering that people shouldn't be anti-Semitic? Then uploaded a video of her yelling at her on twitter? Then everyone twitted about it?
Yep. Well, with regard to the first question, apparently because some whack job murdered Muslims in Christchurch, NZ, Rep Omar is now beyond reproach. We are not allowed to criticize her because that will cause...mass killings.

In completely unrelated news, a Norwegian rapper of Arab (or Persian?) extraction who was charged for saying "F*k the Jews! They are all corrupt!" has been released because the Norwegian authorities said, hey, maybe he was just "criticizing Israel" when he said that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/com ... ews_at_an/
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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This isn't the Left eating itself, per se, but I don't want to give "eating Omar" its own thread. That's not warranted.

ILHAN OMAR ACCUSED OF SUPPORTING AIPAC AFTER CRITIQUING ASSAD
US Representative Ilhan Omar tweeted support for the Syrian people who revolted against the regime of President Bashar Assad on Friday. In response she was accused of supporting the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and the CIA, and was slammed for her views by pro-Assad activists and online trolls.
https://www.jpost.com/American-Politics ... sad-583633

Fun.
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