The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

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Mountaineer
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

Post by Mountaineer »

The emphasized part got my attention. When one is so emotionally involved, for what ever reason, the blinders are hard to see past.


"Dershowitz said he “got an email today from a very prominent friend — I’m not going to disclose his name because it was a private email — admitting that I’m right and saying ‘My hatred toward Trump blinds me to your truths.’ That was his email. ‘My hatred for Trump blinds me to your truths. Please stop.’

“And then he said to me, ‘Don’t ever send me another tweet that includes an article that you wrote that helps that son of a b‑‑‑‑.’

And “this is a close friend,” Dershowitz said. “The email starts, ‘I love you. It starts ‘I love you but … .”
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Maddy
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

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Derschowitz, the civil libertarian, hasn't changed; what has changed is that the principled ideals once defining of liberalism have been abandoned by the Progressive Left in favor of outcome-based politics. I lived through this transition, having once been viewed as "liberal" for my views on individual liberties and more recently being branded as intolerably conservative for the very same views.
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moda0306
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

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Maddy wrote:Derschowitz, the civil libertarian, hasn't changed; what has changed is that the principled ideals once defining of liberalism have been abandoned by the Progressive Left in favor of outcome-based politics. I lived through this transition, having once been viewed as "liberal" for my views on individual liberties and more recently being branded as intolerably conservative for the very same views.
I've seen Derschowitz defend both Israel and debate Glenn Greenwald on the topic of NSA surveilance. The man is no civil libertarian, from what I can tell.
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Maddy
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

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moda0306 wrote:
Maddy wrote:Derschowitz, the civil libertarian, hasn't changed; what has changed is that the principled ideals once defining of liberalism have been abandoned by the Progressive Left in favor of outcome-based politics. I lived through this transition, having once been viewed as "liberal" for my views on individual liberties and more recently being branded as intolerably conservative for the very same views.
I've seen Derschowitz defend both Israel and debate Glenn Greenwald on the topic of NSA surveilance. The man is no civil libertarian, from what I can tell.
That's something I haven't seen, and if I need to be corrected in my view of Derschowitz, I'll stand corrected.
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

Post by Libertarian666 »

Maddy wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
Maddy wrote:Derschowitz, the civil libertarian, hasn't changed; what has changed is that the principled ideals once defining of liberalism have been abandoned by the Progressive Left in favor of outcome-based politics. I lived through this transition, having once been viewed as "liberal" for my views on individual liberties and more recently being branded as intolerably conservative for the very same views.
I've seen Derschowitz defend both Israel and debate Glenn Greenwald on the topic of NSA surveilance. The man is no civil libertarian, from what I can tell.
That's something I haven't seen, and if I need to be corrected in my view of Derschowitz, I'll stand corrected.
I'm not surprised that he defends Israel. I don't think he is Chinese. :P

As for NSA surveillance, of course that is horrendous, but some people who are otherwise very libertarian aren't bothered by it for some reason. John Stossel is an example.
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moda0306
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

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Libertarian666 wrote:
Maddy wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
I've seen Derschowitz defend both Israel and debate Glenn Greenwald on the topic of NSA surveilance. The man is no civil libertarian, from what I can tell.
That's something I haven't seen, and if I need to be corrected in my view of Derschowitz, I'll stand corrected.
I'm not surprised that he defends Israel. I don't think he is Chinese. :P

As for NSA surveillance, of course that is horrendous, but some people who are otherwise very libertarian aren't bothered by it for some reason. John Stossel is an example.
Ummm... Alan Derschowitz isn't Israeli either... And even if he was, being so doesn't at all preclude one from holding their government's war-crimes to account if they're going to deem themselves a civil libertarian.
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moda0306
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

Post by moda0306 »

Maddy... there's a good debate between Dersch and Chomsky on YouTube. I'd check it out. On the topic of Israel/Palestine.

And as mentioned, there's a Greenwald/Dersch debate on surveillance.

And of course there are some more economically-minded libertarians that don't care about surveillance (like the insufferable (IMO) John Stossel). Any civil-libertarian, though, should very much care about it. I mean, if words are to have meanings.
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

Post by dualstow »

Libertarian666 wrote:I'm not surprised that he defends Israel. I don't think he is Chinese. :P
So you're a Jew stereotyping Jews? Noam Chomsky "isn't Chinese" in the same way. What's your point?
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

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dualstow wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote:I'm not surprised that he defends Israel. I don't think he is Chinese. :P
So you're a Jew stereotyping Jews? Noam Chomsky "isn't Chinese" in the same way. What's your point?
It was a joke.

I thought that would be obvious, but I guess not.
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

Post by dualstow »

It's always obvious that it could be a joke. But, that's why the Lord invented sarcasm tags.
Plus, that line is kind of sarcasm embedded within sarcasm. You're making us work too hard. O0
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Re: The tragedy of being an honest "progressive"

Post by Libertarian666 »

dualstow wrote:It's always obvious that it could be a joke. But, that's why the Lord invented sarcasm tags.
Plus, that line is kind of sarcasm embedded within sarcasm. You're making us work too hard. O0
Apparently I'll have to get my sarcasm meter recalibrated. I wonder if it's still in warranty?
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