Screaming helplessly at the sky

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moda0306
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by moda0306 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:58 pm

In about 1919 "the left" bombed or tried to bomb about 40 politicians and businessmen.

In the 1860's "the left" tried to start a war in Kansas over slavery.

In the 1960's "the left" committed bombings and a whole host of other obnoxious displays of violence or perhaps just immature buffoonery.

In the 1790's, "the left" within France did a huge host of ridiculous things, many of which were horribly violent.

I won't even go into all the communist adventures of the 20th century.

"The left" has always, it seems, had a very violent, obnoxious wing. Sometimes they feel a bit more comfortable making asses of themselves than others.

Conservatives, the whole time, tended to hold institutional power. Conservative obnoxiousness & violence tends to be executed within the institutions they control. Look at things within the military, CIA, religious institutions, etc, for those types of "obnoxious behaviors." They just look less obnoxious because they're done with people who dress and speak professionally rather than protest in streets (ie, they don't wear v@gina costumes to marches).

But now what we think of as "conservatives" don't control as many institutions, so the real "conservatives" are establishment centrists, really (if we're defining conservatives as those who uphold and administer current institutions as being likely useful and important as they must not be terrible if we are still here).

One advantage of this brand of "leftism" has always been how obnoxious and willing to resort to "eating itself" they can get to being. The French Revolution was like this. When you don't value institutions, and don't know how to use them effectively, you essentially fizzle out pretty quick.

All this said, it'll probably always be this way, and constantly worrying about "the obnoxious left" has always been what conservatives have used as an excuse to excuse the pollution, exploitation, colonialism, mass-murder, slavery, corruptions, whathaveyou of their own group. Right now "the right," for lack of a better term, is in power.

I'll worry about some radical Jacobin who wants to change our calendar and abolish religion when they get within a whiff of the presidency.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by Michellebell » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:52 pm

Tyler wrote:
MangoMan wrote: Is this a symptom of the left, or has the last 8 years changed people so much that an entire generation of snowflakes is all that remains?
I think it's a Millennial thing that correlates to the left because of generational voting patterns but isn't necessarily caused by it.

Basically, acting like a child is trendy these days.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/15/adults-are ... s-to-stop/
I agree with all of this. I think that a lot of the things that the left stands far, such as social "progress" in terms of things like political correctness (something I think can go WAY too far), and government handouts, can become very difficult to reverse because people start to feel entitled. They feel entitled to be protected from hurt feelings, entitled to "free" stuff, etc. To me it looks like how a child throws a tantrum when the parent realizes he/she has been spoiling the child and starts to say no.

As far as anecdotes for me go, I've already shared some of the reactions people have had on Facebook to some of the things I've said, and I said that my mom said she'd be thrilled if Trump were assassinated. After the election, my mom's best friend and her had a rough time because my mom's best friend is very against Hillary, mainly because of her stance on late-term abortion. She's a very devout Christian and I think that was the deal-breaker for her. So she was pretty upset that my mom voted for Hillary, even though she wasn't a Trump supporter either. She just considered him the lesser or two evils.

But then my mom's cousin was FURIOUS at my mom even though she voted for Hillary! That was because he lives in California and we live in Ohio. Since Trump won in Ohio, my mom's cousin was mad at her for "not doing her part" to get more people here to vote for her.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:05 pm

Michellebell wrote:
Tyler wrote:
MangoMan wrote: Is this a symptom of the left, or has the last 8 years changed people so much that an entire generation of snowflakes is all that remains?
I think it's a Millennial thing that correlates to the left because of generational voting patterns but isn't necessarily caused by it.

Basically, acting like a child is trendy these days.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/15/adults-are ... s-to-stop/
I agree with all of this. I think that a lot of the things that the left stands far, such as social "progress" in terms of things like political correctness (something I think can go WAY too far), and government handouts, can become very difficult to reverse because people start to feel entitled. They feel entitled to be protected from hurt feelings, entitled to "free" stuff, etc. To me it looks like how a child throws a tantrum when the parent realizes he/she has been spoiling the child and starts to say no.

As far as anecdotes for me go, I've already shared some of the reactions people have had on Facebook to some of the things I've said, and I said that my mom said she'd be thrilled if Trump were assassinated. After the election, my mom's best friend and her had a rough time because my mom's best friend is very against Hillary, mainly because of her stance on late-term abortion. She's a very devout Christian and I think that was the deal-breaker for her. So she was pretty upset that my mom voted for Hillary, even though she wasn't a Trump supporter either. She just considered him the lesser or two evils.

But then my mom's cousin was FURIOUS at my mom even though she voted for Hillary! That was because he lives in California and we live in Ohio. Since Trump won in Ohio, my mom's cousin was mad at her for "not doing her part" to get more people here to vote for her.
This is what Hillary stood for. Have your mom read this article (one of the saddest I've ever read) and see if she still feels the love for Hillary and her "social progress".

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/09/cou ... -abortion/
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by Michellebell » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:51 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Michellebell wrote:
Tyler wrote:
I think it's a Millennial thing that correlates to the left because of generational voting patterns but isn't necessarily caused by it.

Basically, acting like a child is trendy these days.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/15/adults-are ... s-to-stop/
I agree with all of this. I think that a lot of the things that the left stands far, such as social "progress" in terms of things like political correctness (something I think can go WAY too far), and government handouts, can become very difficult to reverse because people start to feel entitled. They feel entitled to be protected from hurt feelings, entitled to "free" stuff, etc. To me it looks like how a child throws a tantrum when the parent realizes he/she has been spoiling the child and starts to say no.

As far as anecdotes for me go, I've already shared some of the reactions people have had on Facebook to some of the things I've said, and I said that my mom said she'd be thrilled if Trump were assassinated. After the election, my mom's best friend and her had a rough time because my mom's best friend is very against Hillary, mainly because of her stance on late-term abortion. She's a very devout Christian and I think that was the deal-breaker for her. So she was pretty upset that my mom voted for Hillary, even though she wasn't a Trump supporter either. She just considered him the lesser or two evils.

But then my mom's cousin was FURIOUS at my mom even though she voted for Hillary! That was because he lives in California and we live in Ohio. Since Trump won in Ohio, my mom's cousin was mad at her for "not doing her part" to get more people here to vote for her.
This is what Hillary stood for. Have your mom read this article (one of the saddest I've ever read) and see if she still feels the love for Hillary and her "social progress".

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/09/cou ... -abortion/
I briefly skimmed the article. Really I was the one who brought it up but that's a whole different discussion that I don't feel like getting into. Mountaineer I'm every bit as horrified and saddened by this as you are. But I'm pretty certain my mom and others are aware of this kind of thing and still are pro-choice.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by Michellebell » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:24 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
One more anecdote: I actually voted for Obama in 2008. I thought McCain was completely off his rocker and would have an excellent probability of starting WW III.

Which is also what I thought about Hillary.

So am I a partisan Democrat or a partisan Republican? You be the judge.

Also, last night I was watching some talk show on TV and one of the panelists was asked how he liked Trump at this point in his Presidency.

His answer: "All I asked of him was that he not be Hillary Clinton. He still isn't, so I'm happy."

My wife and I burst out laughing, because that is exactly our position as well, in almost exactly those words. We thought we were the only ones who would put it that way, but obviously we were wrong! :D

I think a lot of people have been thinking this too. They dislike Hillary THAT much. I saw an article somewhere from way before the election with a headline that said something like, "Nice Guys Finish Last. That's Why Trump is the Only One Who Can Beat Hillary." And I saw another article written about how we should be so grateful that Trump has accomplished something amazing, regardless of his flaws, for the mere fact that he was able to prevent us all from being under the leadership of Hillary.

I also agree, I don't like McCain. Actually when I think about it I don't think I've voted since I voted for Al Gore in 2000. I was so young and stupid too. I didn't even know why I was voting for him other than I thought he sounded more articulate and my friends and family all voted for him. That's so bad that I haven't been voting! I plan to start voting now that I've been paying more attention. I've never voted for a Republican before but I'm becoming more and more turned off to the Democrats so I'm moving in that direction.

Also, I agree about the millennials. I don't know if I quite qualify as one. I was born in 1982 so if I'm considered a millennial I'm at the oldest end of it. My half-brothers and sisters though are between the ages of 18 and 22....I'd say three out of the four of them are typical millennials. I'm sorry to say this but they are very used to getting their way if they just cry or try to weasel their way out of responsibility. It has been very strange for me to see how much more slack my parents have given them than they gave me. I don't know if it's partly because of the increased technology or the dumbing down of schools or what.

Out of the three that are like typical millennials, I wonder if it's just their ages and they'll mature as time passes. I am hopeful for two of them. One of them, I'm pretty worried.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by WiseOne » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:39 am

MangoMan wrote: Here's the difference: The conservatives who disliked Obama bitched and moaned for 8 years. Constantly. But they never went berserk and became violent, felt the need to take time off work or school to cope, or hold ridiculous vigils like the one in the OP. Is this a symptom of the left, or has the last 8 years changed people so much that an entire generation of snowflakes is all that remains?
To be fair, the accusations of Obama being a closet Muslim, not a US citizen etc were not exactly shining examples of responsible behavior. But yes, apart from the occasional private militia groups who tended not to make many public displays, there were not mass protests in the streets. I suspect that's largely a function of age and college attendance.

I do worry about the millennials though. In general and on many topics (e.g. diversity, gender identity) they've been thoroughly brainwashed. Even more concerning, they've been trained to the hilt to be good consumers and corporate citizens.

Examples: When I went to college, my standard of living was extremely basic as befitted a student with low income. Clothes were pretty much limited to jeans and T shirts, and we all ate a lot of ramen noodles. Everyone had summer jobs and most people worked part time during the academic year as well. Now, if you walk onto a college campus it's like watching an Urban Outfitter's ad. My nieces have bigger and more expensive wardrobes than I do. And no one has a job. Summers are now spent attending camps and traveling. Most students have no work experience whatsoever at graduation, which I imagine makes it difficult to get full time jobs and also means they never acquired a work ethic. I see this not only in my own family but also the recent college grads applying for research assistant positions. They list things like senior thesis projects on their CVs, under "work experience".

Anyway this is what I see. Perhaps the millennials on the board can correct me if I'm wrong. But this could certainly explain learned helplessness and dependence.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by Michellebell » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:55 pm

WiseOne wrote:
MangoMan wrote: Here's the difference: The conservatives who disliked Obama bitched and moaned for 8 years. Constantly. But they never went berserk and became violent, felt the need to take time off work or school to cope, or hold ridiculous vigils like the one in the OP. Is this a symptom of the left, or has the last 8 years changed people so much that an entire generation of snowflakes is all that remains?
To be fair, the accusations of Obama being a closet Muslim, not a US citizen etc were not exactly shining examples of responsible behavior. But yes, apart from the occasional private militia groups who tended not to make many public displays, there were not mass protests in the streets. I suspect that's largely a function of age and college attendance.

I do worry about the millennials though. In general and on many topics (e.g. diversity, gender identity) they've been thoroughly brainwashed. Even more concerning, they've been trained to the hilt to be good consumers and corporate citizens.

Examples: When I went to college, my standard of living was extremely basic as befitted a student with low income. Clothes were pretty much limited to jeans and T shirts, and we all ate a lot of ramen noodles. Everyone had summer jobs and most people worked part time during the academic year as well. Now, if you walk onto a college campus it's like watching an Urban Outfitter's ad. My nieces have bigger and more expensive wardrobes than I do. And no one has a job. Summers are now spent attending camps and traveling. Most students have no work experience whatsoever at graduation, which I imagine makes it difficult to get full time jobs and also means they never acquired a work ethic. I see this not only in my own family but also the recent college grads applying for research assistant positions. They list things like senior thesis projects on their CVs, under "work experience".

Anyway this is what I see. Perhaps the millennials on the board can correct me if I'm wrong. But this could certainly explain learned helplessness and dependence.
Actually I don't think that the talk about Obama's background means that conservatives are irresponsible themselves. I would say that those kinds of questions are comparable to the liberals' discussions about Trump and his son's possible Russian collusion. Overall I think that doubting the news and perhaps getting wrapped up in some conspiracy theories does not seem that irresponsible to me, no matter which side of the fence you are on. At least it shows that the person is being thoughtful and trying to piece information together.

The screaming at the sky stuff and the riots though? It's just so babyish, like these people think that their tantrums will actually make things better. I do think that a lot of the problem with millennials these days is their addictions. I'm guilty of this myself with the internet. That's why you may notice, or have probably already noticed, that I tend to take LONG breaks from the internet. I get so sucked into forums and Facebook and stuff that I find myself more concerned about the virtual world than the real world with human-to-human interaction. Sometimes I have to break away completely or I end up wasting too much time.

On the flip side, I do enjoy discussing things online and can learn a lot of things so I go back and forth. But with many people in my own family, I've noticed that some of them are downright addicted to technology, or actual drugs. I've noticed that a lot of parents in my family and also friends of my parents have been surprisingly, and I think a bit outrageously, lenient with this. I've gone to Christmas parties and vacations where we see relatives only once a year and the teenagers have been glued to their phones or tablets instead of actually talking to anyone there. When I saw that I said we'd have a rule about that when our kids visit with family.

When I was visiting my dad for a once-a-year 4-day summer trip in West Virginia, one of my half-sisters didn't want to go bike riding with all of us because she didn't want to have to peel herself away from the internet. My dad basically told her to suck it up and come socialize with all of us, but about 1 mile into it, she literally threw her bike down and started sobbing. She was 17! And my stepmother was then mad at my dad and made him go back and get the car to pick her up and take her back to the hotel. We ended up all having to wait for him to make the trip so that she could get picked up and we could finally resume our bike ride. My husband and I were like, woah.

But really as far as stories go that is really mild compared to a lot of things I've seen lately with young adults from upper middle-class families and their addictions and how their parents don't know what to do.

I think parenting is so extremely hard so I shouldn't be judgmental. My own kids are super young and wear me out. But still, this is what I'm seeing.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:55 pm

Image
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:48 pm

WiseOne wrote: I do worry about the millennials though. In general and on many topics (e.g. diversity, gender identity) they've been thoroughly brainwashed. Even more concerning, they've been trained to the hilt to be good consumers and corporate citizens.
Well, it is in the nature of young people to rebel against the status quo. It just seems grossly unfair to me that the previous generation's rebellion led to a bunch of wanton fucking and drug use, and "ours" is so lame.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by Michellebell » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:45 am

omg

I thought this article would be appropriate for this thread.
https://www.hermancain.com/liberals-pla ... p-hotel-in

The lunacy of these people is starting to show no limit.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by moda0306 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:44 am

And in actual news...

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/13/daz ... ing-spree/
Trump’s failure to criticize the widespread executions in the Philippines was not a surprise, given that a leaked transcript of a phone call between the two men in April showed that the American president said that he was calling his counterpart “to congratulate you, because I am hearing of the unbelievable job on the drug problem.”
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by stuper1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:02 pm

moda0306 wrote:And in actual news...

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/13/daz ... ing-spree/
Trump’s failure to criticize the widespread executions in the Philippines was not a surprise, given that a leaked transcript of a phone call between the two men in April showed that the American president said that he was calling his counterpart “to congratulate you, because I am hearing of the unbelievable job on the drug problem.”
See ... this is just another example of the media dog-piling onto Trump. Who really gives a rip how the Philippines deals with their criminals? That's their problem. Is it really our job to tell them how to do it? But the media would have us believe that Trump is a monster, because he hasn't unfriended Duterte from his Facebook account. To me, it's pretty simple. If you don't want to get executed in the Philippines, then don't get involved in drug dealing.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by moda0306 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:28 pm

stuper1 wrote:
moda0306 wrote:And in actual news...

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/13/daz ... ing-spree/
Trump’s failure to criticize the widespread executions in the Philippines was not a surprise, given that a leaked transcript of a phone call between the two men in April showed that the American president said that he was calling his counterpart “to congratulate you, because I am hearing of the unbelievable job on the drug problem.”
See... this is just another example of the media dog-piling onto Trump. Who really gives a rip how the Philippines deals with their criminals? That's their problem. Is it really our job to tell them how to do it? But the media would have us believe that Trump is a monster, because he hasn't unfriended Duterte from his Facebook account. To me, it's pretty simple. If you don't want to get executed in the Philippines, then don't get involved in drug dealing.
At the very least, apparently Trump "gives a rip." He called the guy to congratulate him on his extra-judicial killings. I didn't see anything about not unfriending him on Facebook. ??? But what else would we expect from someone who bragged about the war-crimes he would commit while in office.

I think who our government chooses to ally itself with is of utmost importance. I also think it's important to identify when Trump is idolizing certain types of foreign leaders.

I don't expect everyone else to have that priority. However, I don't think it's unreasonable for a journalist to highlight these things for those that do. And I would certainly want Hillary's dirty ties (Kissinger, Mubarak, etc) if she were President. This is exactly the type of stuff "the media" should be highlighting, IMO. Many who aren't would be alive today if the American people paid more attention to the despots we've allied ourselves with and why. If anything, there's a dearth of this type of reporting that goes on. This is why Bush II can come on TV and talk about the horrible crimes Saddam committed and have 2/3 of the country support going to war not realizing it was under his dad's watch and support that they were committed.
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Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

Post by Michellebell » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:04 pm

    moda0306 wrote:And in actual news...

    https://theintercept.com/2017/11/13/daz ... ing-spree/
    Trump’s failure to criticize the widespread executions in the Philippines was not a surprise, given that a leaked transcript of a phone call between the two men in April showed that the American president said that he was calling his counterpart “to congratulate you, because I am hearing of the unbelievable job on the drug problem.”
    I don't consider that article "actual news." Here's why. Look at this exerpt:

    "Still basking in the glow of his reception at the ASEAN gala dinner in Manila on Sunday, where he wore a Barong Tagalog, an embroidered shirt worn at formal events in the Philippines, and was greeted on a red carpet by Duterte, with whom he later shared a toast. Trump told the traveling press that the welcome was “red-carpet like I think probably nobody has ever received.”

    Such an elaborate greeting showed, Trump said, “a sense of respect, perhaps for me a little bit, but really for our country, and I’m very proud of that.”

    Trump neglected to mention that every other world leader who attended the summit received the exact same red-carpet welcome from the Philippine president."

    The article could have simply said that Trump was grateful for the type of welcome and respect he had been shown on his visit. Even if other world leaders were also treated with respect, I don't see anything wrong with him commenting about how appreciative he was about it. If he hadn't been so thankful, I'm sure the media would be criticizing him for that. And Trump DOES often call other world leaders out on corrupt policies and violence, and the media goes nuts over that too.

    He will never be able to win everyone over but I find that the over-the-top criticism he gets actually makes me more sympathetic to him when he does something I disagree with because I know he's not perfect and can't make everyone happy.
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    Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

    Post by moda0306 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:35 pm

    What do you consider "real journalism" with regards to the executive branch and the presidency right now, Michellebell?

    What are your main priorities for how our media holds our government accountable at this point in history?

    Surely it can't be limited to reporting that some dipshit liberals are building a hotel, right?
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    Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

    Post by Michellebell » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:04 pm

    moda0306 wrote:What do you consider "real journalism" with regards to the executive branch and the presidency right now, Michellebell?

    What are your main priorities for how our media holds our government accountable at this point in history?

    Surely it can't be limited to reporting that some dipshit liberals are building a hotel, right?

    I would consider "actual news" to be objective reports of international deals, tax reform, laws and court rulings, etc.

    I agree there's a lot of news stories going around right now which are just attacking the other side, and they are so eye-catching that they really can be a distraction.
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    Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

    Post by moda0306 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:41 pm

    Michellebell wrote:
    moda0306 wrote:What do you consider "real journalism" with regards to the executive branch and the presidency right now, Michellebell?

    What are your main priorities for how our media holds our government accountable at this point in history?

    Surely it can't be limited to reporting that some dipshit liberals are building a hotel, right?

    I would consider "actual news" to be objective reports of international deals, tax reform, laws and court rulings, etc.

    I agree there's a lot of news stories going around right now which are just attacking the other side, and they are so eye-catching that they really can be a distraction.
    After hearing Glenn Greenwald discuss the topic, I lean towards his perspective... that is, nobody is objective. We all have our biases in multiple areas... right or wrong. And it's best to admit it and present your perspective honestly than to feign "objectivity." He does a better job of explaining it than I, but there are an infinite number of "facts" out there... and even more infinite number of "lies."

    That-said, establishing actual facts and dispelling lies is an important aspect of good journalism, and I'd imagine you and I agree with that, irrespective of differences in our analysis on the current president, or perhaps more usefully, what is "important" to focus on.

    And maybe that's my point... what is "important?" It's implied if journalism covers something that it is in some way, right? In which case, the President meeting with an authoritarian murderer after enthusiastically supporting him is (in my opinion), several thousand times more "important" than some liberals building an anti-Trump hotel.

    That is because I distrust centralized systems of power or "authority," or any series of systems that present a catastrophic risk to life. One of these "systems" is centralized state systems with massive military power.

    Hopefully this illustrates why I feel like discussing the executive branch of the most powerful killing force in the history of humanity is more important than a hippie hotel.
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    Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

    Post by moda0306 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:13 am

    MangoMan wrote:
    moda0306 wrote: After hearing Glenn Greenwald discuss the topic, I lean towards his perspective... that is, nobody is objective. We all have our biases in multiple areas... right or wrong. And it's best to admit it and present your perspective honestly than to feign "objectivity." He does a better job of explaining it than I, but there are an infinite number of "facts" out there... and even more infinite number of "lies."
    Perhaps, but there are certainly different levels of bias. Your best bet is to go to https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ and choose a news source that is as unbiased as possible, e.g., Reuters.
    moda0306 wrote: And maybe that's my point... what is "important?" It's implied if journalism covers something that it is in some way, right? In which case, the President meeting with an authoritarian murderer after enthusiastically supporting him is (in my opinion), several thousand times more "important" than some liberals building an anti-Trump hotel.
    And you'd be correct, if news sites could only publish one story per day. But since, alas, that is not the case, while the meeting with Duterte may be 'more important', it's good to also know how completely off the rails the left has become.
    The amount of money Americans spend on, say, golf is probably more pertinent to how "off-the-rails" segments of America are than the minuscule number of nauseating liberals that would spend money to stay at an anti-Trump hotel (thereby justifying the investment in it in the first place).

    This is literally an obscure investment/consumption decision discussion. This is as much news as whether a Duck Dynasty themed restaurant is getting built in Alabama.

    Unless of course we're to the idiocratic point of where we will proudly put pop culture on the same par as actual political issues of holding power accountable. Oh wait... that's exactly where we are at.
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    Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

    Post by moda0306 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:23 am

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    Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

    Post by Mountaineer » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:54 am

    Interesting article. Helps understand why all the screaming is going on.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... ssues-etc/

    Excerpt:

    On the way to Houston on Friday evening, I finished Patrick Deneen’s extremely impressive forthcoming book Why Liberalism Failed, which will be published on January 9, 2018. There’s not a wasted sentence in the whole thing. In fact, I think it is certain to be one of the most important political books of the year. There’s material in there to shake up the certainties of both left and right. The understanding that Deneen, a political theorist who teaches at Notre Dame, brings to his analysis of why liberal democracy is careening into crisis, is piercing, even radical.

    I won’t say much more about it here, because I want to wait until the book is out. But Deneen’s argument is so incisive and clarifying that I revised the Benedict Option speech I delivered on Saturday morning, to incorporate some of Deneen’s insights. Why Liberalism Failed helped me understand my own book and project more deeply.

    By “liberalism,” he’s not talking about progressivism, or the politics of the Democratic Party alone. He’s talking about the entire system within which we live, and that has evolved in the modern era to this point. Deneen’s argument is essentially that liberalism failed because it succeeded so well in what it set out to do: liberate the consciousness of individuals from any restraints that inhibit their autonomous choice. To be clear, Deneen does not say that liberalism has been a bad thing; in fact, he says it is simply dishonest to ignore the very good things that have come out of liberalism, and that it is absurd to speak of the pre-liberal past as a golden age to which it would be possible to return. That said, his book interprets the systemic crisis we’re in now, and which he believes (quite correctly) is going to get much worse, because the center cannot hold.
    <snip>
    DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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    Re: Screaming helplessly at the sky

    Post by Xan » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:19 am

    Mountaineer, that's a fascinating article, and I look forward to the full book.
    Deneen’s basic point is that liberalism has failed because it succeeded so well in liberating individuals from a sense that they have unchosen obligations to the past, the future, or to each other. The trouble is, you cannot run a society that way. If you contemplate why “social media” ends up making us more isolated and abstracted from reality, despite its intention to connect us more closely, you’ll be on to Deneen’s argument about liberalism’s paradoxes. But again, we’ll talk about that in-depth later. I should add too that Deneen fully acknowledges the great goods that liberalism has given us, and he says it’s not possible or even desirable to go back to the pre-liberal past. Still, liberalism has reached, or is at least very close to reaching, a dead end, for reasons he explains in his book.
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