NFL National Anthem Controversy

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Mountaineer
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Re: NFL National Anthem Controversy

Post by Mountaineer » Wed May 23, 2018 12:50 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 11:55 am
Is this anything other than a complete win for Trump?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2358 ... hem-policy
Off the subject but both my ad blockers showed 288 ads blocked and 6 trackers on this ESPN webpage. That is a record by far of webpages I have visited.

Ad Block Plus and uBlock Origin on Chrome.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: NFL National Anthem Controversy

Post by moda0306 » Wed May 23, 2018 2:01 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 1:53 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 12:11 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 11:55 am
Is this anything other than a complete win for Trump?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2358 ... hem-policy
Really scraping the bottom of the barrel now, aren't we...
How is that not a win for Trump? He made that an almost personal agenda.

And how is that bottom of the barrel? Because you don't care about the NFL or you just won't allow Trump any credit for anything?
"A win for Trump" is a pretty vague term. It is a win for him, I suppose, to the degree his sheep will want to give him credit for this and that they believe it's a good thing and worthy of continued fawning praise, or that people on the fence might be pulled more his direction.

"Bottom of the barrel" refers to the unimportance of the issue.

I'm sorry to be such an @ss. I promise, when Kathy Griffin wins the Dem nomination and becomes President, I'll be equally critical.
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Re: NFL National Anthem Controversy

Post by Xan » Wed May 23, 2018 3:10 pm

I don't think the "bottom of the barrel" criticism applies here. This isn't the Trump thread, it's the NFL National Anthem Controversy thread. I didn't say "this happened, so Trump is the greatest ever".

But it is definitely a win for him. Maybe some are fawning, I don't know. But I do know that Trump was excoriated by the media and by seemingly most of the NFL for daring to say such an outrageous thing as get that guy who's kneeling off the field. And now that outrageous thing is the official policy. Because it isn't and wasn't outrageous in the first place.
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Re: NFL National Anthem Controversy

Post by hardlawjockey » Wed May 23, 2018 4:13 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 3:10 pm
I don't think the "bottom of the barrel" criticism applies here. This isn't the Trump thread, it's the NFL National Anthem Controversy thread. I didn't say "this happened, so Trump is the greatest ever".

But it is definitely a win for him. Maybe some are fawning, I don't know. But I do know that Trump was excoriated by the media and by seemingly most of the NFL for daring to say such an outrageous thing as get that guy who's kneeling off the field. And now that outrageous thing is the official policy. Because it isn't and wasn't outrageous in the first place.
I rank Colin Kapernick's actions right up there with the Buddhist monks in Vietnam who were setting themselves on fire in Saigon while I was in high school. An American eventually followed suit and torched himself right in front of the pentagon while his daughter was watching.

Okay, Mr. Kapernick, I can see that you want Americans to feel your pain even though you are a professional athlete with a multi-million dollar salary the rest of us can only dream of.

But I don't think those Buddhist monks or the idiot in front of the Pentagon did a damn thing to end the war. So the moral of the lesson, as far as I can see it, is stop being a f***ing idiot and figure out a better way to get your point across if you feel that strongly about it.
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Re: NFL National Anthem Controversy

Post by moda0306 » Wed May 23, 2018 6:24 pm

hardlawjockey wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 4:13 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 3:10 pm
I don't think the "bottom of the barrel" criticism applies here. This isn't the Trump thread, it's the NFL National Anthem Controversy thread. I didn't say "this happened, so Trump is the greatest ever".

But it is definitely a win for him. Maybe some are fawning, I don't know. But I do know that Trump was excoriated by the media and by seemingly most of the NFL for daring to say such an outrageous thing as get that guy who's kneeling off the field. And now that outrageous thing is the official policy. Because it isn't and wasn't outrageous in the first place.
I rank Colin Kapernick's actions right up there with the Buddhist monks in Vietnam who were setting themselves on fire in Saigon while I was in high school. An American eventually followed suit and torched himself right in front of the pentagon while his daughter was watching.

Okay, Mr. Kapernick, I can see that you want Americans to feel your pain even though you are a professional athlete with a multi-million dollar salary the rest of us can only dream of.

But I don't think those Buddhist monks or the idiot in front of the Pentagon did a damn thing to end the war. So the moral of the lesson, as far as I can see it, is stop being a f***ing idiot and figure out a better way to get your point across if you feel that strongly about it.
What action could a Vietnamese monk take to have the maximum affect on public American awareness about the war? Or a poor American?

I think those were likely were actions that maximized their individual impact on the war. I find that sort of suicide repellent on a visceral level, but that's more out of fear of pain than anything... and they didn't light others on fire.

Were they stupid? Perhaps... if their desired outcome was personal comfort.
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Re: NFL National Anthem Controversy

Post by Maddy » Wed May 23, 2018 7:12 pm

A generation that has been schooled in nihilism goes to comical lengths to stand for something. Too bad they still don't get it.
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Re: NFL National Anthem Controversy

Post by hardlawjockey » Wed May 23, 2018 9:44 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 6:24 pm
hardlawjockey wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 4:13 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 3:10 pm
I don't think the "bottom of the barrel" criticism applies here. This isn't the Trump thread, it's the NFL National Anthem Controversy thread. I didn't say "this happened, so Trump is the greatest ever".

But it is definitely a win for him. Maybe some are fawning, I don't know. But I do know that Trump was excoriated by the media and by seemingly most of the NFL for daring to say such an outrageous thing as get that guy who's kneeling off the field. And now that outrageous thing is the official policy. Because it isn't and wasn't outrageous in the first place.
I rank Colin Kapernick's actions right up there with the Buddhist monks in Vietnam who were setting themselves on fire in Saigon while I was in high school. An American eventually followed suit and torched himself right in front of the pentagon while his daughter was watching.

Okay, Mr. Kapernick, I can see that you want Americans to feel your pain even though you are a professional athlete with a multi-million dollar salary the rest of us can only dream of.

But I don't think those Buddhist monks or the idiot in front of the Pentagon did a damn thing to end the war. So the moral of the lesson, as far as I can see it, is stop being a f***ing idiot and figure out a better way to get your point across if you feel that strongly about it.
What action could a Vietnamese monk take to have the maximum affect on public American awareness about the war? Or a poor American?

I think those were likely were actions that maximized their individual impact on the war. I find that sort of suicide repellent on a visceral level, but that's more out of fear of pain than anything... and they didn't light others on fire.

Were they stupid? Perhaps... if their desired outcome was personal comfort.
The Buddhist monks weren't actually protesting the war, just the American puppet government in Saigon's preference for Catholicism and their discrimination against Buddhists. I suspect they didn't believe they would actually fare better under the communist regime, and how that eventually played out I don't really know.

The guy who torched himself in front of his daughter across from the Pentagon was a Christian.

I have no idea what was in their minds but I tend to chalk it up to the religious idea of redemptive sacrifice and suffering, though I wasn't aware that was so deeply embedded in Buddhism. As an atheist not expecting any kind of reward in an afterlife, the whole thing seems incomprehensible.

Maybe it's wrong to think of Mr. Kapernick's actions as the same type of self-immolation but he had to know there was going to be a price to pay for it, unless he really was stupid which it doesn't sound like he was. Despite the tattoos and hair he sounds like a very intelligent man. And those tattoos were all Bible verses so there may very well have been some kind of religious motivation involved.

He had one interview with another them that I know of but would not commit to standing during the national anthem so now he's suing the NFL for "collusion" among the owners to keep him unemployed. Try going on an interview and not being willing to commit to your boss that you won't do anything to embarrass the company and see how that works in the real world.

So maybe he is stupid, after all.
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