How you can lose virtually all of your rights without a meaningful hearing

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Libertarian666
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Re: How you can lose virtually all of your rights without a meaningful hearing

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:42 pm

Maddy wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote:If I find myself in this situation, I'm going to say "I'm not letting you in. Go away and come back if you get a warrant." Then I will call my lawyer.
Well, the crazy thing is that in this kind of situation a warrant probably would not be required. I've never looked into it. But when you think about the analogous situation involving people who are alleged to be a danger to themselves by reason of mental illness, it's clear that the protection of the Fourth Amendment applies only very loosely, and quite often only after the accused person has been involuntarily detained for evaluation and treatment for a number of days.

The hazy, ephemeral thing called the "parens patriae power" (the power of the state to help those who cannot help themselves) follows its own set of rules.
If they say "We don't need a warrant", then I will say "I'm still not letting you in."

Then I will call my lawyer and get him to stop it.

He knows EVERYONE around here.
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eufo
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Re: How you can lose virtually all of your rights without a meaningful hearing

Post by eufo » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:18 am

Maddy wrote:[...]and quite often only after the accused person has been involuntarily detained[...]
Somehow read this as ACCURSED person... I was like... daaaammmnnn!
Don't agree with me too strongly or I'm going to change my mind
WiseOne
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Re: How you can lose virtually all of your rights without a meaningful hearing

Post by WiseOne » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:06 am

Would they really make like United Airlines and drag you away with physical force, possibly breaking down the door in the process? In all cases described, the elderly folks in question went voluntarily in the end.

It occurred to me that another way to minimize the risk of this happening is not to live in obvious retiree "hot spots" that are away from major metro areas, Like Las Vegas, Palm Springs, Sarasota. I'm sure they attract predators like April Parks in the article about the Las Vegas cases, and have creaky small-town justice systems that are too easy for one corrupt person to manipulate.

This may be a good reason to stay put in NYC where there are lots of people in their 90s and even 100s living independently. I've never heard of anyone being forced out of their home, but I do know of several instances where building staff and neighbors have helped keep an eye on residents with questionable mental status. A cooperative building is essentially a small village where everyone knows everyone else.
Libertarian666's solution of living in the rural equivalent of this is another good solution. I think it's the in between situation that is ripe for this kind of problem.
Libertarian666
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Re: How you can lose virtually all of your rights without a meaningful hearing

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:07 pm

WiseOne wrote:Would they really make like United Airlines and drag you away with physical force, possibly breaking down the door in the process? In all cases described, the elderly folks in question went voluntarily in the end.
If they did that, I would be able to buy my own island after the lawsuit.
WiseOne wrote: It occurred to me that another way to minimize the risk of this happening is not to live in obvious retiree "hot spots" that are away from major metro areas, Like Las Vegas, Palm Springs, Sarasota. I'm sure they attract predators like April Parks in the article about the Las Vegas cases, and have creaky small-town justice systems that are too easy for one corrupt person to manipulate.

This may be a good reason to stay put in NYC where there are lots of people in their 90s and even 100s living independently. I've never heard of anyone being forced out of their home, but I do know of several instances where building staff and neighbors have helped keep an eye on residents with questionable mental status. A cooperative building is essentially a small village where everyone knows everyone else.

Libertarian666's solution of living in the rural equivalent of this is another good solution. I think it's the in between situation that is ripe for this kind of problem.
Probably so.
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