Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

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WiseOne
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by WiseOne » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:08 am

Great topic.

I could sleep on just about anything in my 20s including Thermarests and futons, but now firm mattresses end up triggering bursitis. So I'm also in the soft bed camp.

Memory foam is great but only if you don't tend to sleep hot. I ended up getting a Kingsdown mattress and buying a cooling mattress pad (~$100 on Wayfair or Amazon). Not active cooling, just a cooling material. It works well enough.

When I visited the Yucatan Peninsula, I discovered that the locals all sleep on hammocks rather than mattresses. They're a lot cooler. When my sleeping-hot problems were at their worst, I gave serious consideration to setting up a hammock in my bedroom. There's a whole website about people who have traded in beds for hammocks.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:21 am

First thing that came to mind

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Greg
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Greg » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:34 pm

Any thoughts on the Purple mattress? I've been looking into it lately.

https://onpurple.com/mattress?gclid=Cjw ... oC-PLw_wcB

P.s. they have the funniest mattress video ads I've ever seen
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:00 pm

Greg wrote:Any thoughts on the Purple mattress? I've been looking into it lately.

https://onpurple.com/mattress?gclid=Cjw ... oC-PLw_wcB

P.s. they have the funniest mattress video ads I've ever seen
LOL, those really were good.

$999 for a bed, I was LOLing all over the place!
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Greg » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:26 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Greg wrote:Any thoughts on the Purple mattress? I've been looking into it lately.

https://onpurple.com/mattress?gclid=Cjw ... oC-PLw_wcB

P.s. they have the funniest mattress video ads I've ever seen
LOL, those really were good.

$999 for a bed, I was LOLing all over the place!
Lol'ing because $1000 is too much to spend on a bed? I've also found this site which is very interesting for un-biased mattress comparisons: http://www.sleeplikethedead.com/
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by moda0306 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:53 am

Greg wrote:
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Greg wrote:Any thoughts on the Purple mattress? I've been looking into it lately.

https://onpurple.com/mattress?gclid=Cjw ... oC-PLw_wcB

P.s. they have the funniest mattress video ads I've ever seen
LOL, those really were good.

$999 for a bed, I was LOLing all over the place!
Lol'ing because $1000 is too much to spend on a bed? I've also found this site which is very interesting for un-biased mattress comparisons: http://www.sleeplikethedead.com/
Thanks folks for all the input!

But I want to address this point... is $1,000 too much to spend on a bed...

I don't have any back or joint issues, and sleep mostly well, and like most folks, there are probably a myriad of lifestyle choices I could make that would have more of an impact on my sleep than having the perfect bed (how late I eat, what I eat, exercise amount and timing, lighting at night, stretching more before bed, etc).

But think about it... $1,000 is the gross cost, but let's say the "cheaper" alternative is $400, so your marginal cost is $600. Let's also assume that your useful life of that bed is 10 years. And your opportunity cost on your money is 6%.

This comes to $81.52 per year.

Or $6.79 per month.

Or 23 cents per night.

23 cent per night to optimize where you spend 1/3 of your life, and is very important for overall health.

I think one could make the argument that IF a better bed will have even a modest affect on your sleep quality, one could justify a hell of a lot more than $1,000.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:11 am

$1000 is a bargain nowadays. I have a sub $1000 mattress from Ikea. My parents and brother have $4k+ beds from Tempurpedic and Sleep Number.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:27 am

Greg wrote:
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Greg wrote:Any thoughts on the Purple mattress? I've been looking into it lately.

https://onpurple.com/mattress?gclid=Cjw ... oC-PLw_wcB

P.s. they have the funniest mattress video ads I've ever seen
LOL, those really were good.

$999 for a bed, I was LOLing all over the place!
Lol'ing because $1000 is too much to spend on a bed? I've also found this site which is very interesting for un-biased mattress comparisons: http://www.sleeplikethedead.com/
Yes :-\ I thought that was the joke.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by dualstow » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:11 am

I still think you should give SLEEPOPOLIS a glance, Moda. It's free and you can tell the guy whether you prefer soft or firm, if you're side sleeper, etc. Very helpful.

@corto: Me, too. O0 Hammock sleeping is great, as long as the skipper isn't whacking you in the face with that fucking hat of his.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Maddy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:52 pm

moda0306 wrote:
But think about it... $1,000 is the gross cost, but let's say the "cheaper" alternative is $400, so your marginal cost is $600. Let's also assume that your useful life of that bed is 10 years. And your opportunity cost on your money is 6%. This comes to $81.52 per year.
Only on the PP forum. :)
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by moda0306 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:44 pm

Maddy wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
But think about it... $1,000 is the gross cost, but let's say the "cheaper" alternative is $400, so your marginal cost is $600. Let's also assume that your useful life of that bed is 10 years. And your opportunity cost on your money is 6%. This comes to $81.52 per year.
Only on the PP forum. :)
It's funny, because this is literally how I make almost every financial decision now... I'm trying to work in a "space/rent" factor but it's proving difficult. Every surface or storage area should have a certain per cubic or per square foot of space rent cost, and be compared to everything else that could be more useful in that place.

It's proving difficult to implement, but even thinking in that manner is more ammo to keep me from buying or accepting more sh*t to live with. This becomes especially interesting when one of your parents loooooves handing down "family heirlooms" and regretted purchases. :-\

You should see my analysis on the "true cost of snow tires." I'm particularly proud of that one. :)
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by stuper1 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:10 pm

What's the conclusion on snow tires?
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by moda0306 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:02 pm

stuper1 wrote:What's the conclusion on snow tires?
I don't have the spreadsheet within easy grasp, but the main cost is the opportunity cost depreciation of the extra rims and extra set of simultaneously-owned tires. The tires I find are actually cheaper than the all-seasons (although they do lose their tread faster). So really the tire cost in and of itself really isn't the ultimate expense.

I think when it was all said and done it was like $20 per winter month (December thru March here), including the tires, depreciation of the rims, and opportunity cost at 7% or 8%. It's a no-brainer for me in MN, as my car is low and poor in snow with the high-rolling resistance eco tires on... oh and I don't pay for comprehensive/collision insurance, so my net-exposure to an accident that is my fault is much lower with than without the snow tires.

Another thing I hadn't factored in was its ability to let me ware down my tires further than I otherwise would, where if you're going into winter with a shaky set of all-seasons you'd usually throw them out to do the swap, where you maybe could get another 5k miles out of them if you'd switch them out until spring and ride out a summer on them. This'll be my first year pulling the trigger.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Mr Vacuum » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:21 pm

moda0306 wrote:
But think about it... $1,000 is the gross cost, but let's say the "cheaper" alternative is $400, so your marginal cost is $600. Let's also assume that your useful life of that bed is 10 years. And your opportunity cost on your money is 6%.

This comes to $81.52 per year.
Now I’m curious how you do this. Looking at the future value of $600 over ten years at 6%, I get $1074.51 for the cheaper alternative vs. ten years of better sleep and $0 at the end for the better mattress . Obviously you’re doing something more complicated. What am I missing?
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by moda0306 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:44 pm

Mr Vacuum wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
But think about it... $1,000 is the gross cost, but let's say the "cheaper" alternative is $400, so your marginal cost is $600. Let's also assume that your useful life of that bed is 10 years. And your opportunity cost on your money is 6%.

This comes to $81.52 per year.
Now I’m curious how you do this. Looking at the future value of $600 over ten years at 6%, I get $1074.51 for the cheaper alternative vs. ten years of better sleep and $0 at the end for the better mattress . Obviously you’re doing something more complicated. What am I missing?
I only threw the marginal cost ($600) as a PV into the calculator... so PV: $600 N:10 (years) I: 6% FV: 0 PMT = $81.52.

I don't usually do monthly payments. I hate dividing and multiplying by 12. :)
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Mr Vacuum » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:40 pm

moda0306 wrote:
I only threw the marginal cost ($600) as a PV into the calculator... so PV: $600 N:10 (years) I: 6% FV: 0 PMT = $81.52.

I don't usually do monthly payments. I hate dividing and multiplying by 12. :)
Thanks :)
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by dualstow » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:07 pm

I guess you're not a member of the Dozenal Society then.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:17 am

Why are you so sure that the more expensive mattress will lead to better sleep?
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by moda0306 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:00 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:Why are you so sure that the more expensive mattress will lead to better sleep?
I am not "so sure." I think that's definitely up for debate. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if long-term sleeping on a very hard surface was best long-term.

I wrote this...
I think one could make the argument that IF a better bed will have even a modest affect on your sleep quality, one could justify a hell of a lot more than $1,000.
So the real debate shouldn't be centered around price, IMO. It should be centered around the affect a "better" bed will have on our sleep. The 23 cents per day makes the marginal cost of a "better" bed almost an irrelevancy, IMO.

And obviously they can get far-more expensive than $1,000. But even a $4,000 bed that lasts you 10 years @ 6% opportunity cost, and has a $0 salvage value is only a cost of $1.50 per day.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:51 am

I'm in a different bed, different pillow, different sheets, every few days. Unless a bed is outrageously soft, I pretty much don't notice a difference in my sleep. For me, ambient light, street noise, fresh air, temperature and humidity are much bigger factors. But in general, I'm pretty ready to sleep at the end of the day and any bed/room is a very welcome harbor.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by WiseOne » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:56 pm

This thread made me remember something I once looked into: a waterbed. It seemed the perfect answer to my need for cushioning to prevent bursitis flareups and getting too hot while sleeping. The sleeping hot thing is really annoying, as it basically means that memory foam and latex, the two best answers to problem #1, are both non-starters.

Has anybody looked into this? I'm too nervous to risk a waterbed in an apartment building, even though it's not forbidden in the house rules.

There are soft-side mattresses that look and act more like traditional mattresses than the classic hard-side waterbed. They have a good amount of padding that protects the water bladder from energetic pets with sharp claws and can be used with an existing bed frame if you add a steel reinforcement kit.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:30 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mark Leavy wrote:I'm in a different bed, different pillow, different sheets, every few days. Unless a bed is outrageously soft, I pretty much don't notice a difference in my sleep. For me, ambient light, street noise, fresh air, temperature and humidity are much bigger factors. But in general, I'm pretty ready to sleep at the end of the day and any bed/room is a very welcome harbor.
Mark, just curious: Are you at all concerned about bed bugs getting into your belongings? I hear they are on a big comeback roll, and I'm always paranoid when I stay in even nicer hotels.
I do think about it now and then. But I think that the news is bigger than the problem. I was in NYC around April of this year and I was a bit leery, (The Gregory) but I didn't see any signs. Also, I frequently move to hot weather climes and from what I understand, bedbugs and their progeny don't survive +100 degree weather well.

In all honesty, I have been surprised at the general cleanliness and pest control that I find everywhere in the world. Yes, an occasional roach or rodent - but no more often than when I have lived in similar climes.
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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:45 pm

WiseOne wrote:This thread made me remember something I once looked into: a waterbed. It seemed the perfect answer to my need for cushioning to prevent bursitis flareups and getting too hot while sleeping. The sleeping hot thing is really annoying, as it basically means that memory foam and latex, the two best answers to problem #1, are both non-starters.

Has anybody looked into this? I'm too nervous to risk a waterbed in an apartment building, even though it's not forbidden in the house rules.

There are soft-side mattresses that look and act more like traditional mattresses than the classic hard-side waterbed. They have a good amount of padding that protects the water bladder from energetic pets with sharp claws and can be used with an existing bed frame if you add a steel reinforcement kit.
The few times that I did some teen-aged house sitting via a waterbed - it was horrible. At least for me.

I like a stiff, sturdy sleeping surface and a waterbed just seems like a bad nightmare - grabbing me, sucking me into the depths...

Maybe it's just me, because my hosts just sort of looked at me funny when I tried to describe my 20,000 leagues under the sea experience.

Then again, things may have improved since the '70s...

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Re: Bed/Frame Shopping Hacks

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:30 pm

MangoMan wrote:Before you use any of those mattress comparison sites, read this article.

OMG, caveat emptor.
I don't really trust any review site, but that disclaimer tingled my Spidey-sense when I looked at it.

"“I was an intimate friend with Derek,” Joe Alexander, the Nest Bedding CEO, told me, “and apparently I can never talk to him again.” His best guess was that Derek sold Sleepopolis in the end for about half what it was actually worth, but still something like $3 million to $5 million. “I’m going to venture to guess Derek is sipping margaritas somewhere, laughing at all of us,” said Alexander good-naturedly. Online, I found a Halloween picture of Derek and Samantha dressed as Neo and Trinity from The Matrix, wearing sunglasses and brandishing toy guns."

Derek's wife sounds like a keeper. Christian Mingle, eh?
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