Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

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Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:43 pm

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I can't wait for it to come out!
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by ochotona » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:01 am

We need a firebrand reformer POTUS with skills. We do not currently have one.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by eufo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:59 pm

I opened this thread hoping that was a real book... very disappointed. :(
Don't agree with me too strongly or I'm going to change my mind
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:55 pm

eufo wrote:I opened this thread hoping that was a real book... very disappointed. :(
You're not the only one! It would be a much better, and more popular, book than any of her actual ones!
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Michellebell » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:35 pm

I think the Democratic Party at this point would be so much better off if she would just STFU. Although now, I'm so fed up with Democratic politicians that maybe she's doing me a favor :)
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Michellebell » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:49 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Michellebell wrote:I think the Democratic Party at this point would be so much better off if she would just STFU. Although now, I'm so fed up with Democratic politicians that maybe she's doing me a favor :)
I'm very appreciative for the election's revelation of exactly how insane so many people are.

Including some family members and in-laws.

Yes, I paid very little attention to politics myself until the insanity ensued. It has been eye-opening, to say the least.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by moda0306 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:41 am

What are you people actually noticing?

I live in a very blue state (MN). The reaction to Trump in my social circles (a mix of red and blue folks) is less reactionary to that of Obama. Lot's of "what a piece of garbage," and the like. But nothing along the lines of "commie (n word)."

Further, I'm not noticing much enthusiasm for Hillary at all. Just a "oh well she's better than Trump." And while I find that premise debatable, I'd hardly call that "insanity."

To me the insanity isn't the reaction to Trump, but the way we accept establishment politics. And that's been around for decades. If there's any insanity, it's the complacency and the false-equivalence of the pro-Trumpers... As if Hillary was more like Mao Zedong than Richard Nixon (who many older Trumpers voted for).

Perhaps I'm missing something.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by moda0306 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:54 am

Maxine Waters calling for impeachment, for no specific reason that she can name.
That is one person. Surely there are others, but it's not surprising. Also, this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_t ... rack_Obama
CNN found in July 2014 that 57% of Republicans supported efforts while about two thirds of adult Americans in general disagreed.
At a 2013 town hall meeting with constituents, two years after Obama had released his long-form birth certificate to the public, Congressman Blake Farenthold said that Obama should be impeached due to conspiracy theories relating to Obama's birth certificate. Farenthold said that he thinks that "the House is already out of the barn on this, on the whole birth certificate issue."
This stuff is not new. I'm frankly surprised that anyone is surprised.
The "Russia-Trump conspiracy theorists" bloviating all over the media, on the basis of absolutely nothing.
Bloviation about non-issues in the media has always been a trait. This is on the media. And I'd hardly say this is the first thing that makes them "insane." Or the largest. How the media approaches war is perhaps the single-best example, IMO. See their fawning over Trump's strikes against Syria.

While I agree the Russia coverage has been sloppy and biased at best... that's our establishment media for you.
The Unitarian-Universalist national group UUWorld talking about how they themselves are guilty of white supremacy.
Ok this seems like more than a bit much, though I haven't researched it. But I don't see it as an indication of a unique tilt of "insanity" by the U.S. public.


Your other two examples are personal in nature, so I can't speak much to them other than I could write a book about the level of unbalanced vitriol hurled at Obama, not just by big players in the mainstream media, but by friends and colleagues on FB (to speak to your personal examples). While I've seen quite a bit of mud slung at Trump, most of it is accurately disassembling his constant stream of bullsh!t. Some of it is pure partisan drivel and vitriol, sure. But if we are going to encourage actually holding power accountable (something that any free-thinker or anarchist leaning individual should appreciate), then I'm not going to worry about the noise. You still seem more concerned with ridiculing Hillary than the buffoon with the nukes in the White House who's already committed war-crimes and seems very anti-civil-libertarian to say the least.

It seems we agree pretty closely on Hillary. It seems weird to me that we disagree so much on Trump & the nature of the "insanity" of the public in-general.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by moda0306 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:22 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
Your other two examples are personal in nature, so I can't speak much to them other than I could write a book about the level of unbalanced vitriol hurled at Obama, not just by big players in the mainstream media, but by friends and colleagues on FB (to speak to your personal examples). While I've seen quite a bit of mud slung at Trump, most of it is accurately disassembling his constant stream of bullsh!t. Some of it is pure partisan drivel and vitriol, sure. But if we are going to encourage actually holding power accountable (something that any free-thinker or anarchist leaning individual should appreciate), then I'm not going to worry about the noise.
I'm in favor of holding power accountable. But it should be based on actual facts, not made up conspiracy theories.
moda0306 wrote: You still seem more concerned with ridiculing Hillary than the buffoon with the nukes in the White House who's already committed war-crimes and seems very anti-civil-libertarian to say the least.
Of course he has committed war crimes. Every President since at least Abe Lincoln has done that.

And of course he isn't a civil libertarian. But compared to Hillary, he looks like Thomas Jefferson.
moda0306 wrote: It seems we agree pretty closely on Hillary. It seems weird to me that we disagree so much on Trump & the nature of the "insanity" of the public in-general.
That's why they have chocolate and vanilla ice cream.
You don't think there are legitimate "actual facts" being brought up by anyone in holding Trump accountable? Or are you just purposefully focusing on the idiotic ones?

In what way do you think Trump is more civil libertarian than Hillary, much less "Thomas Jefferson?" To me, they're both pretty terrible, but Trump comes in as worse?
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by farjean2 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:30 pm

moda0306 wrote: You don't think there are legitimate "actual facts" being brought up by anyone in holding Trump accountable?
What are they?
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by moda0306 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:43 pm

farjean2 wrote:
moda0306 wrote: You don't think there are legitimate "actual facts" being brought up by anyone in holding Trump accountable?
What are they?
Simply any topic where one would believe he has opinions or will make decisions that are dangerous for this country. For the most part, I'm talking about foreign policy, war powers, and law enforcement agency civil liberties issues where he has the most authority. But someone might disagree with me that these are extra important areas considering the president's outsised unilateral influence, or they might just care more about other issues.

So the facts might be simply the very unbalanced things he's said about these topics. Perhaps it's just facts about his apparent mental state when he controls our nuclear arsenal. Do I need to go re-find the quote where he suggested we surround ISIS in Iraq with troops and have our oil companies take all the oil? Suggesting executing Snowden? Suggested we kill families of terrorists? Suggested he's going to "do a lot worse" than waterboarding for torture? Killing civilians at a far-higher rate than Obama?

How about making nice with Henry Kissinger or the Saudis? How about the war crimes he's already commited? How about simply having a gross anti-civil libertarian like Sessions as attorney general? Bombing Syria? Continuing the war in Yemen?

These are just simple facts in a pretty narrow area of policy.

How about you folks... what things would you like to see Trump held accountable? Perhaps some of his promises, his general decorum or domestic policy priorities?

Or are we just going to sit here and bash Hillary's books?
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by farjean2 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:17 pm

moda0306 wrote: Simply any topic where one would believe he has opinions or will make decisions that are dangerous for this country.
Hmmm. I don't think you really mean what you are saying, that a president should be held accountable for opinions that he holds that might lead to making decisions that are dangerous for this country in your opinion. I'll chalk that up to the kind of brain fart that we all have from time to time.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by moda0306 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:55 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
farjean2 wrote:
What are they?
Simply any topic where one would believe he has opinions or will make decisions that are dangerous for this country. For the most part, I'm talking about foreign policy, war powers, and law enforcement agency civil liberties issues where he has the most authority. But someone might disagree with me that these are extra important areas considering the president's outsised unilateral influence, or they might just care more about other issues.

So the facts might be simply the very unbalanced things he's said about these topics. Perhaps it's just facts about his apparent mental state when he controls our nuclear arsenal. Do I need to go re-find the quote where he suggested we surround ISIS in Iraq with troops and have our oil companies take all the oil? Suggesting executing Snowden? Suggested we kill families of terrorists? Suggested he's going to "do a lot worse" than waterboarding for torture? Killing civilians at a far-higher rate than Obama?

How about making nice with Henry Kissinger or the Saudis? How about the war crimes he's already commited? How about simply having a gross anti-civil libertarian like Sessions as attorney general? Bombing Syria? Continuing the war in Yemen?

These are just simple facts in a pretty narrow area of policy.

How about you folks... what things would you like to see Trump held accountable? Perhaps some of his promises, his general decorum or domestic policy priorities?

Or are we just going to sit here and bash Hillary's books?
No one can be held accountable for their opinions or decisions that people believe he would make. That doesn't even make sense.

Of course you can always have an opinion that someone else's opinion is wrong.

But that's not holding that person accountable; it's just your opinion.

Actions are the only thing for which anyone can be held accountable.

Yes, speech is a form of action, but it in itself does nothing unless it is a legal command to someone else to do something.

So then we have to ask which of Trump's actions he should be held accountable for.

Go ahead and let us know which actions you think he should be held accountable for; then we can have a possibly fruitful discussion.
Half of my examples were actual actions and not just opinions. Try them.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Michellebell » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:03 pm

I've been a really busy mom lately and haven't had much time to really look deeply into Trump's foreign policies and everything...but you'd have to live under a rock to not notice that the media has gone INSANE recently over the most harmless things. It's been harder for me actually find the real issues because people are so bent out of shape over non-issues. Like, didn't we just have a major victory against ISIS? I could list so many examples of trivial news stories, but most recently Trump made a condolence call to a widow and the Florida congresswoman misinterpreted his words to make up this whole story about how he has no empathy. I thought that was insane. Trump has always been respectful to veterans but people are determined to hate him and twist his words to sound like he says things that he hasn't said. They did the same thing with his response to Charlottesville, I thought.

People on Facebook have unfriended me because I posted a few links that defended Trump over some issues that he has been slammed over. My mother said she'd be absolutely thrilled if he were assassinated. People are defending Antifa actually beating Trump supporters in the streets. His name has become basically a symbol of racism or Nazism to many people.

Now I'm not saying the man is perfect. People seem to either love him or hate him. I'm more unusual in that I'm more on the fence, at least for now. He hasn't been the President for long so I want to wait and see. Personally I like that he's not afraid to say what he thinks. It's definitely not "presidential," but I really don't care about that. Hillary sounds more "presidential" than Trump but I think she'd be horrible for our country. Seriously I feel like, if she were our leader for eight years we wouldn't have the Constitution anymore or something by the end of that. Also, I don't trust her AT ALL.

Actually I didn't vote in the last election (I know, that sounds horrible!) But I was pregnant with my fourth child and feeling really ill during the whole fall season. I couldn't handle paying attention to politics or spending any time reading online. All I knew was that everyone in my family hated Trump's guts, everyone I worked with hated him too, but I had a God-awful gut-wrenching bad feeling about Hillary. I didn't watch the debates or know enough to make a decision at the time, and I felt so uneasy about both candidates that I think I partially didn't vote to avoid voter regret. I didn't think Trump would stand a chance to win anyway also because of the way the media said that polls were in her favor. Nowadays I don't trust most media because it is so over-the-top negative. Just the wording that the reporters or editors use is so obviously biased. It's like they're not even trying to sound like news anymore.

Anyway, if Trump can turn our economy around and (although scary) use his more direct tactics and words to get some of the more violent world forces under control, then I will vote for him in 2020. I don't like the idea of being aggressive with other countries, but pacifism hasn't been working and there are some truly horrific things happening in the world right now.

As of right now, I try to give him the benefit of the doubt and support him because he IS our president. To me, he seems like he's working really hard and trying to follow through on his campaign promises. He's really swimming against the current with the way a lot of politicians are treating him too it seems. I've been posting some links on Facebook defending him, and some people just don't know what to think about me! Ha! I don't fit the mold of the stereotypical Trump supporter - uneducated, white, sexist, racist, bigoted male. I'm a college-educated Asian woman. Really, the vitriol that I received when I posted on Facebook a link about the Harvard study showing a 90% negative bias in the media about Trump, it was like I had blown peoples' faces off. Seriously! People I grew up with. It was like they were beyond baffled at what could have happened to me.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Maddy » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:38 am

TennPaGa wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: He authorized whatever was going on in Niger that ended up with 8 US military personnel getting killed. I thought Trump was going to keep the US out of that stuff. (I'm ashamed to admit that, for a time last summer, I actually believed he would follow through on getting the U.S. out of the Middle East. Boy, was I gullible.)
Google "Africom." Then take a look at the roster of private military, security, and natural resource-based monopoly corporations with a permanent footprint on that new frontier of economic resources. Finally, Google "General Wesley Clark" and look for the little bombshell he dropped in 2007 regarding the plan for establishing western hegemony in the mideast by eradicating seven specific nation states and their nationalistic leaders who are standing in the way of this plan.

The consider whether it's logical to believe that Trump is running this show.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by moda0306 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:11 am

TennPaGa wrote:
Maddy wrote:
TennPaGa wrote:
Google "Africom." Then take a look at the roster of private military, security, and natural resource-based monopoly corporations with a permanent footprint on that new frontier of economic resources. Finally, Google "General Wesley Clark" and look for the little bombshell he dropped in 2007 regarding the plan for establishing western hegemony in the mideast by eradicating seven specific nation states and their nationalistic leaders who are standing in the way of this plan.

The consider whether it's logical to believe that Trump is running this show.
Donald Trump is President of the United States. Of course he is running the show.

Trump absolutely could get the U.S. out of Niger -- if he wanted to. But he doesn't want to, obviously.
That's all well and good... But on the other hand, someone defriended me. ::)
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:17 am

Simonjester wrote:+ 1 wonderful post.
i have a similar on the fence view of trump, i am not a strong supporter, i question whether the in your face New yorker attitude (seldom understood outside NY city) works as presidential, i don't believe he is ANY of the things the media say about him, and i LOVE that the establishment (both sides) are having apoplectic fits over his very existence, regardless if he is a good bad or indifferent president, i think any even the smallest of pullback from the politics as usual that Hillary and his establishment republican enemies represent will be a good thing..
+2 re. Michellebell's post, and +1 for the Simonjester post. I may be all wet on this, but I think most, if not all, of the media is geared to appeal to EMOTION (aka sensationalism) rather than to diligently dig for facts and truth and then report objectively. I tend to put the media in the same box as soap opera, professional wrestling, and the evening "news" talking heads - not worth listening to or watching. As for the politicians, they are mainly just a bunch of self-serving narcisistic lost souls. Having said all that, the media and politicians are just serving up what most of the people want, and can't help wanting - entertainment that requires no effort other than picking up the remote. Some people excessively drink to escape, some do drugs, some are addicts of other flavors, some are even addicted to internet forums, some to TV, and some just stick with matters of personal importance.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by moda0306 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:29 am

Anyone with the ability to think freely is annoyed and sickened by "the media." Enough using that as an excuse! Talk about a red-herring. "The media" may be informing establishment liberals and establishment conservatives. WHO CARES!? This isn't about "the media." This is about the areas where Trump is corrupt, incompetent, dishonest, bombastic, dangerous or nefarious in his intentions.

Let's quit using it as a distraction or excuse from the corrupt murderers in various places within our government (yes, also within the deep state).

When Obama was president, good free-thinking adults didn't excuse him or ignore his crimes because "some of my conservative friends had absolutely sickening opinions of him, used sloppy logic, or embraced establishment conservative alt-media sources that were one-sided garbage propaganda." Anyone who would have quoted "but my friend blocked me on FB," would have been rightfully laughed at. Sure, plenty of "liberals" did. But let's rise above that shall we?

Unless we really want to pretend Trump is an anti-establishment threat to the deep-state or corruption, let's cut the f'king sh!t, shall we?

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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Xan » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:44 am

Moda, you seem to be trotting out Henry Kissenger as some kind of boogeyman on a regular basis. Can you describe your thinking on that?
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by moda0306 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:52 am

Xan wrote:Moda, you seem to be trotting out Henry Kissenger as some kind of boogeyman on a regular basis. Can you describe your thinking on that?
It's just a great example of him not being anti-establishment or a threat to the deep state. One of many.

Henry Kissinger is perhaps the poster-boy of late-20th century establishment US foreign policy. If it helps I can diversify my references a bit.

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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Maddy » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:12 pm

TennPaGa wrote:Trump absolutely could get the U.S. out of Niger -- if he wanted to. But he doesn't want to, obviously.
Then it remains a real head-scratcher how the Pentagon could simply deny his request for information about foreign military involvements, as was reported to have occurred shortly after his inauguration.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by WiseOne » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:25 am

Simonjester wrote:
moda0306 wrote: This is about the areas where Trump is corrupt, incompetent, dishonest, bombastic, dangerous or nefarious in his intentions.

Unless we really want to pretend Trump is an anti-establishment threat to the deep-state or corruption, let's cut the f'king sh!t, shall we?
nobody is a threat to the deep deep state they are way too firmly in control, at best trump can be a threat to the politics as usual government expansionist establishment and the surface level deep state corruption and incompetence (and i hope he ends up being so and not just another empty political promise maker) hoping he can take on the banks and the MIC directly is completely unrealistic. working around the edges by keeping some of his promises would be the best realistic turnout we could hope for.
while i agree he is bombastic and that all politicians have their moments of incompetence trump included, (though i wouldn't begin to describe him as being incompetent in general..)

i don't see any evidence of him being the following, as an individual or a president
corrupt
dangerous
nefarious in his intentions
Taking this at face value...

How do you find out about areas where Trump is corrupt, incompetent, dishonest, etc, when the main source of information you have is the media?

It takes a lot of effort to sift through the garbage to pull out nuggets of truth. I wish I had more time and energy for that, but my impression so far is that while Trump is not someone I would ever want to work for and at times has conducted himself in a manner unbefitting his office, he's not nearly as bad as the portrayal suggests.

Oddly, I've been thinking more about this since I start plowing through Ken Burns' "Vietnam" series on PBS. It is outstanding and well worth watching. The presentation paints a rather shocking portrait of self-delusion, rationalization, and gamesmanship in the US government & media that is if anything worse than what's going on today. The basis for the war was essentially made up. Originally it was about Vietnam trying to win independence from France, and the U.S. started out as - and could have remained - an ally. The "communism" label which somehow came into the picture turned out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Sound familiar?
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by stuper1 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:11 pm

Very well stated, WiseOne. A whole lot of people seem to want to dump on Trump as if he was Hitler, but they don't seem to consider that maybe the only reason they think he is Hitler is because the media wants them to think that.

Has anyone else seen this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comm ... th_donald/

I haven't read all of the comments on it, but of the ones I have read from people who have actually met or dealt with Trump in real life, most of them seem to think he's not that bad of a guy.

People always say that a politician's personality shouldn't matter, only his/her policies. That doesn't only apply when the politician seems likable; it also applies when he/she seems unlikable (e.g., Trump). But it seems like Trump's detractors mainly want to talk about irrelevant personal traits that aren't really important, rather than discussing the big issues, one of which is ... of course ... immigration.

The whole Russia collusion business reminds me of nothing so much as the WMDs-in-Iraq debacle back in 2002.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by Michellebell » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:30 pm

WiseOne wrote:
How do you find out about areas where Trump is corrupt, incompetent, dishonest, etc, when the main source of information you have is the media?

It takes a lot of effort to sift through the garbage to pull out nuggets of truth. I wish I had more time and energy for that, but my impression so far is that while Trump is not someone I would ever want to work for and at times has conducted himself in a manner unbefitting his office, he's not nearly as bad as the portrayal suggests.



Sound familiar?
Actually I saw some interviews of women who worked for Trump who said that he was a very fair and kind person to work for. With all the media craziness, it was really surprising for me to see that. But really they seemed very genuine. When I thought about it some more, I thought about how his businesses have been very successful. I think that a lot of people assume rich people only get rich through corruption, and of course there are many who have done that. But I also think that for a lot of them, they become rich because they are smart, fair, good bosses, inspire hard workers, and provide services or goods that are a benefit to people.

I'd agree that the media portrayals of him are terrible, probably worse than the media portrayals of some of the most murderous political figures and dictators in history. Just the fact that they are THAT bad makes me have a hard time believing them.
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Re: Hillary's new book: "It Was My Turn"

Post by moda0306 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:31 pm

WiseOne wrote:
moda0306 wrote:Anyone with the ability to think freely is annoyed and sickened by "the media." Enough using that as an excuse! Talk about a red-herring. "The media" may be informing establishment liberals and establishment conservatives. WHO CARES!? This isn't about "the media." This is about the areas where Trump is corrupt, incompetent, dishonest, bombastic, dangerous or nefarious in his intentions.
Taking this at face value...

How do you find out about areas where Trump is corrupt, incompetent, dishonest, etc, when the main source of information you have is the media?

What is "the media?" If there's no source of current events you trust, then why do you come to arguments with facts about anything? You never seem to be quite this skeptical of the media on any other topic du jour... why now so much?

It takes a lot of effort to sift through the garbage to pull out nuggets of truth.

I totally agree. Trump makes it harder by telling so many lies so fast that his supporters don't even seem to care about what comes out of his mouth anymore.

I wish I had more time and energy for that, but my impression (Impression from what? What "the media" has shown you? Have you met the president or are you gleaning what you know from "the media?) so far is that while Trump is not someone I would ever want to work for and at times has conducted himself in a manner unbefitting his office, he's not nearly as bad as the portrayal suggests. What portrayal?
Is there only one? Does "authoritarian sexual-assaulting buffoon" count?


Oddly, I've been thinking more about this since I start plowing through Ken Burns' "Vietnam" series on PBS. It is outstanding and well worth watching. The presentation paints a rather shocking portrait of self-delusion, rationalization, and gamesmanship in the US government & media that is if anything worse than what's going on today. The basis for the war was essentially made up. Originally it was about Vietnam trying to win independence from France, and the U.S. started out as - and could have remained - an ally. The "communism" label which somehow came into the picture turned out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You realize that "the media" essentially produced that documentary, right? Why believe one thing in it that so-called "documentary"? It's either hearsay or facts that "we don't have the time to pull out the nuggets of truth" out of.

Sound familiar?
I understand some of your frustration, but you are essentially saying that there is NO news source that is accurately calling Trump out in negative ways that you can identify. You aren't trying. Probably because you're not emotionally motivated to give liberals any sort of gratification when they hit a few decent points against the utter buffoon in control of nukes right now while you complain about "the media."
Locked