Now your phrase is "stand up," whatever that means. But before you were saying "we go to war" for these principles. While I wouldn't put it past certain individuals to join a cause at great expense for perceived principles (though usually extremely naively), the actual engineers of most wars or just political causes in-general are usually NOT in a similar position. They are careerists who sacrifice very little for the wars or other policies they propose and execute.Maddy wrote:I'm not sure what particular view you're referring to, but the view that people do stand up for principle as opposed to being motivated politically by their own self-interest is supported in spades by the behavior of constitutional conservatives during the last eight and a half years.Mountaineer wrote:Maddy, Desert, moda0306, very interesting and divergent views. Serious question: What is the source(s) that shape your view, or opinion, and how did you determine the source(s) is/are factual or true?
It would have been very easy, given the shredding of the constitution, the dismantling of culture, and the nearly complete abandonment of the rule of law that we witnessed during the Obama administration, for constitutional conservatives to have thrown a collective temper tantrum such as the one we are presently witnessing from the Progressive Left. However, the vast majority of conservatives exercised an impressive amount of restraint and did what they have always done--played by the rules--while the other team fouled them time and time again. Amazingly, those rule-of-law conservatives held out for eight extremely demoralizing years, patiently awaiting the opportunity to register their individual vote at the polls. When you think about it, that was a really amazing exercise of character, the backbone of which came from the genuinely-held belief that the principles behind our constitutional form of government do matter, and that to win by violating those principles would be a pyrrhic victory.
Now we're facing a very different sort of overreach from the Left. Violence aimed at law-abiding citizens, the attempted creation of chaos, the quashing of divergent viewpoints, the publication of entirely made-up political narratives, and daily displays of vile, intolerant, and wholly uncivilized behavior. And once again constitutional conservatives are exercising amazing restraint, since the natural impulse of one with the power of law on his side, in the face of such egregiously criminal conduct, would be to forcibly take the criminals into custody and put them in prison--or in a state hospital--for a good long time.
In short, the rule-of-law conservatives have held fast to the principle that even when the country's very foundation is under attack and one side is playing with a double deck, it is imperative that we still adhere to our principles.
But to your broader that 1) Obama was uniquely flippant towards the rule of law, and that 2) "constitutional conservatives" were uniquely principled in their "stand up" against him, I guess I'd ask you a couple things...
- In what major ways was Obama and his admin uniquely flippant towards the rule of law.
- Who are these principled constitutional conservatives? Are there many politicians you would label as such, or are you talking about individual citizens? If the latter, aren't you sort of cherry picking? Wouldn't you also say that there are members of "the left" who take very principled stands and don't resort to violence and have power-decks stacked against their causes as well? Or, put a bit differently, aren't there extremely unprincipled "conservatives" in our government (caughMitchMcConnell) that aren't worthy of praise at all?
Yes, there are very principled people out there... but usually the only principle that can drive big decisions at the government level such as a WAR is rampant careerism and cronyism, and all the profit benefits of neo-Imperialism.
I would also add that if there was every any time where evidence was at its highest that "conservatives" had far fewer principles than they propose they do, it's in the election of the utter buffoon we have in the White House (and I thought the last "conservative" buffoon was bad). Rand Paul, once again, didn't stand a chance, and he's on a very, very short list of what seem to be quasi-principled politicians out there, and if we really had a critical mass of "constitutionalists" out there, Rand would have been far more popular.