Will Trump be Re-elected?

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Will Trump be Re-elected?

Trump is more effective than people are willing to admit [ala Scott Adams] and will be re-elected.
24
37%
Hillary will run again in 2020, and thus Trump will beat her again.
3
5%
Trump will cause the GOP to lose one or both houses of congress in the mid-term elections.
6
9%
The Dems in congress will be so insufferable, Trumps wins by a small margin despite them.
15
23%
Trump will choose not to run for re-election, since he never really wanted the job anyway.
7
11%
Trump is a disaster and will lose by a landslide.
5
8%
Trump will not only lose, but will lose to a candidate so far to the left that people will wish he'd stayed.
3
5%
Other, please elaborate.
2
3%
 
Total votes: 65
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:32 pm

When it comes to those on the left standing up for the "truth" I think you need only look to judge Kavanaugh. On the one year anniversary of his confirmation to the supreme court there was a group of protesters outside the supreme court building protesting that they had put an "obvious" sexual predator on the high court. One of the speakers was Julie Swetnick who remembers him spiking the punch so he and his friend could gang-rape women at parties.

That woman's account of events has been completely discredited but the fact that she was invited to speak tells you all you need to know about the far left's relationship with the truth.

Personally, I think those people are truly dangerous because they are suffering from some form of extreme pathology.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:07 pm

jacksonm2 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:32 pm
When it comes to those on the left standing up for the "truth" I think you need only look to judge Kavanaugh. On the one year anniversary of his confirmation to the supreme court there was a group of protesters outside the supreme court building protesting that they had put an "obvious" sexual predator on the high court. One of the speakers was Julie Swetnick who remembers him spiking the punch so he and his friend could gang-rape women at parties.

That woman's account of events has been completely discredited but the fact that she was invited to speak tells you all you need to know about the far left's relationship with the truth.

Personally, I think those people are truly dangerous because they are suffering from some form of extreme pathology.
Yes, it’s called TDS.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by moda0306 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:37 pm

jacksonm2 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:32 pm
When it comes to those on the left standing up for the "truth" I think you need only look to judge Kavanaugh. On the one year anniversary of his confirmation to the supreme court there was a group of protesters outside the supreme court building protesting that they had put an "obvious" sexual predator on the high court. One of the speakers was Julie Swetnick who remembers him spiking the punch so he and his friend could gang-rape women at parties.

That woman's account of events has been completely discredited but the fact that she was invited to speak tells you all you need to know about the far left's relationship with the truth.

Personally, I think those people are truly dangerous because they are suffering from some form of extreme pathology.
Who said anything about “the left standing up for truth.” We were discussing whether generally democrats or republicans lie more... not saying one or the other is a pillar of truth.

The Kavanaugh hearing was one of millions of states where dems and republicans might have lied. You’ve got a long road to hoe to develop a rich comparison.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by boglerdude » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:42 pm

doodle, the trumpsters/goldbugs/libertarians like that he's (unintentionally) increasing government dysfunction and making it harder for gov to do anything (like "regulate," tax them, take their guns n'gold). When someone's doing something you like, cognitive dissonance prevents you from admitting they'd gladly screw you over too, if they got the chance.

Can you provide more detail of your verifiable data, ie what exactly those friends of yours did for trump
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by flyingpylon » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:50 am

boglerdude wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:42 pm
doodle, the trumpsters/goldbugs/libertarians like that he's (unintentionally) increasing government dysfunction and making it harder for gov to do anything (like "regulate," tax them, take their guns n'gold). When someone's doing something you like, cognitive dissonance prevents you from admitting they'd gladly screw you over too, if they got the chance.

Can you provide more detail of your verifiable data, ie what exactly those friends of yours did for trump
And since there are at least two sides to every story, please provide the opposing side’s arguments as well. Has anyone here ever hired a contractor and had a project go less than 100% smoothly?

Boglerdude’s got a good point about cognitive dissonance. Like it or not, everyone has it. The fact that this thread is turning into a discussion about “who lies more” is evidence. All politicians lie, it only matters when they lie about things that you give a crap about.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:18 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:27 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:40 am
moda0306 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:41 pm


There are plenty of bad traits on display, but I don’t think there is any Dem in the primary that lies more than Trump.

Overall I tend to feel like Republicans lie slightly more than dems.
I'm not sure about the Democratic candidates vs Trump.

But the current Dems/Left vs Reps/Right? It's not even a contest, IMO. You really think it's the other way around?
I mean who do you want to focus on? Do we weight by power or just say "most members of congress?" Are we weighing everything they say or just what gets plastered in the media? Of course it's going to seem like dem candidates lie more than some random conservative congressman... they're in the news constantly. And I think most conservatives are trying to keep their heads down so they don't have to be on record defending Trump's ridiculous antics.

And the fact that you're "not sure" about Trump vs dem candidates... Really? Trump is a bullshit factory. I hate standard "politics-speak" as much as the next guy but Trump's bombast isn't any better, and he lies far more.
You said you think Rs lie slightly more than Ds, but then said that it seems like Ds lie more. I am curious who you were talking about, and what time frame.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by moda0306 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:41 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:18 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:27 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:40 am


I'm not sure about the Democratic candidates vs Trump.

But the current Dems/Left vs Reps/Right? It's not even a contest, IMO. You really think it's the other way around?
I mean who do you want to focus on? Do we weight by power or just say "most members of congress?" Are we weighing everything they say or just what gets plastered in the media? Of course it's going to seem like dem candidates lie more than some random conservative congressman... they're in the news constantly. And I think most conservatives are trying to keep their heads down so they don't have to be on record defending Trump's ridiculous antics.

And the fact that you're "not sure" about Trump vs dem candidates... Really? Trump is a bullshit factory. I hate standard "politics-speak" as much as the next guy but Trump's bombast isn't any better, and he lies far more.
You said you think Rs lie slightly more than Ds, but then said that it seems like Ds lie more. I am curious who you were talking about, and what time frame.
I said "seems" in the context of how often someone shows up in the news, not how much they actually lie. I meant that in a general sense of a passive onlooker into the mainstream media of politics, where dem candidates for president are on TV dozens of times more frequently than republican congressmen.

As far as "who" and "what time frame," mostly the last year of primary politics, as that was what you seemed to be focused on, though I could have been mistaken.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:52 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:41 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:18 pm
You said you think Rs lie slightly more than Ds, but then said that it seems like Ds lie more. I am curious who you were talking about, and what time frame.
As far as "who" and "what time frame," mostly the last year of primary politics, as that was what you seemed to be focused on, though I could have been mistaken.
No, you are correct.
I said "seems" in the context of how often someone shows up in the news, not how much they actually lie. I meant that in a general sense of a passive onlooker into the mainstream media of politics, where dem candidates for president are on TV dozens of times more frequently than republican congressmen.
That's how I understood it. But given that the Ds get most of the air time, what is it about the Rs that gives you the impression they are lying more?
[It is a] fact beyond question that soldiers' battles, where one side is entrenched and invisible and the other advancing in attack, are things of the past, except in a wooded country or where all preliminary movements are concealed. We had soldiers' battles here, but by fighting them the lesson has been taught which the world will learn.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:04 pm

I don't know what will be on the news tonight with all the networks except Fox but I really don't need to watch to make a prediction. The main topic of conversation will be the godawful thing that Donald Trump did or said that day which will be the most outrageous thing that any American president ever did or said, leaving everyone in a state of total shock with heads still reeling in disbelief on every single show.

It's kind of like a drug addict who keeps needing a bigger and bigger fix.

One thing I've been noticing lately is something that makes me think he might actually be impeached and even removed from office.It's kind of like when Walter Cronkite turned against the war in Vietnam and Johnson said if I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost America (I've heard that is a fake quote and he never really said it but it works for the sake of this post).

In this case Water Cronkite is Matt Drudge. He seems to be clearly in the anti-Trump camp nowadays.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:00 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:35 pm
jacksonm2 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:04 pm
I don't know what will be on the news tonight with all the networks except Fox but I really don't need to watch to make a prediction. The main topic of conversation will be the godawful thing that Donald Trump did or said that day which will be the most outrageous thing that any American president ever did or said, leaving everyone in a state of total shock with heads still reeling in disbelief on every single show.

It's kind of like a drug addict who keeps needing a bigger and bigger fix.

One thing I've been noticing lately is something that makes me think he might actually be impeached and even removed from office.It's kind of like when Walter Cronkite turned against the war in Vietnam and Johnson said if I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost America (I've heard that is a fake quote and he never really said it but it works for the sake of this post).

In this case Water Cronkite is Matt Drudge. He seems to be clearly in the anti-Trump camp nowadays.
Drudge has been in the anti-Trump camp for quite awhile.

I don't think that means very much.
Time will tell but I thought it was very significant when he apparently decided to go full-in on the impeachment of Trump. Every day he highlights all of the most negative stories and links to none on the opposite side. A lot of people now credit him for being a major influence on the Clinton impeachment so the fact that he is now doing the same thing with Trump seems pretty significant to me. I think they call people like him on the internet nowadays "influencers".

When I sit down in front of my computer to read the news every day, his website is at the top of my list and I know a lot of people who agree with me.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by vnatale » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:05 pm

I had always believed it to be true and this is the first time I'd ever read any doubt regarding it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

"President Johnson was deflated by Cronkite’s report, saying, “If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost Middle America.”"

Vinny
jacksonm2 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:04 pm
I don't know what will be on the news tonight with all the networks except Fox but I really don't need to watch to make a prediction. The main topic of conversation will be the godawful thing that Donald Trump did or said that day which will be the most outrageous thing that any American president ever did or said, leaving everyone in a state of total shock with heads still reeling in disbelief on every single show.

It's kind of like a drug addict who keeps needing a bigger and bigger fix.

One thing I've been noticing lately is something that makes me think he might actually be impeached and even removed from office.It's kind of like when Walter Cronkite turned against the war in Vietnam and Johnson said if I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost America (I've heard that is a fake quote and he never really said it but it works for the sake of this post).

In this case Water Cronkite is Matt Drudge. He seems to be clearly in the anti-Trump camp nowadays.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by vnatale » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:07 pm

He was a "major influence"! I remember seeing this on his web site when it happened.

http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/this-d ... dal-92266/

Vinny
jacksonm2 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:00 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:35 pm
jacksonm2 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:04 pm
I don't know what will be on the news tonight with all the networks except Fox but I really don't need to watch to make a prediction. The main topic of conversation will be the godawful thing that Donald Trump did or said that day which will be the most outrageous thing that any American president ever did or said, leaving everyone in a state of total shock with heads still reeling in disbelief on every single show.

It's kind of like a drug addict who keeps needing a bigger and bigger fix.

One thing I've been noticing lately is something that makes me think he might actually be impeached and even removed from office.It's kind of like when Walter Cronkite turned against the war in Vietnam and Johnson said if I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost America (I've heard that is a fake quote and he never really said it but it works for the sake of this post).

In this case Water Cronkite is Matt Drudge. He seems to be clearly in the anti-Trump camp nowadays.
Drudge has been in the anti-Trump camp for quite awhile.

I don't think that means very much.
Time will tell but I thought it was very significant when he apparently decided to go full-in on the impeachment of Trump. Every day he highlights all of the most negative stories and links to none on the opposite side. A lot of people now credit him for being a major influence on the Clinton impeachment so the fact that he is now doing the same thing with Trump seems pretty significant to me. I think they call people like him on the internet nowadays "influencers".

When I sit down in front of my computer to read the news every day, his website is at the top of my list and I know a lot of people who agree with me.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:43 am

Not sure if anyone’s noticed, but the flow of information on the internet has changed a bit since Drudge was a “major influence” TWENTY YEARS AGO.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by dualstow » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:27 am

flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:43 am
Not sure if anyone’s noticed, but the flow of information on the internet has changed a bit since Drudge was a “major influence” TWENTY YEARS AGO.
O0 In the 90s I used to rely heavily on refdesk dot com, run by Drudge's father. I wonder if he still runs it.
Feels like the end of the everything rally.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:42 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:43 am
Not sure if anyone’s noticed, but the flow of information on the internet has changed a bit since Drudge was a “major influence” TWENTY YEARS AGO.
I may travel in too small of circles but almost everyone I talk to about politics who identifies as a conservative or right leaning libertarian still says "Of course" if I ask them if they read Drudge.

And I could be wrong but I noticed when he really started hitting the impeachment story hard there was a significant increase in the percentage of Republican voters who were in favor of impeachment.

There could be other reasons for that, of course, but that was my take on it.

If Rush Limbaugh turns, it's probably all over (never listened to him very much but as far as I know he's still a major influencer).
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:52 pm

Damn if I don't like this woman more and more.....

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/ ... ian-asset/

I don't agree with all of her policy proposals but unlike the other DEM candidates she seems to still believe in the democratic process and isn't running for the office of socialist dictator (If you think that is an exaggeration then you haven't paid much attention to the debates).

So here is Hillary suggesting that Tulsi is a plant by the Russians to run as a third party candidate and guarantee the election to Donald Trump.

And we all know that what most Americans really want more than anything right now is a president willing to stand up to the Russians and even go to war if necessary. If Hillary thinks that is a winning strategy she is even more insane that I thought she was.

Come election night, in the unlikely event it would come down to a choice between Tulsi Gabbard and Donald Trump I would just go to bed early and wake up in the morning to see who won. Tulsi as president with Republicans in control of both houses of congress, or at least one, might very well be the ideal situation.

Not going to happen, of course but you never know. A lot of guys, myself as a war veteran included, would love to have someone like Tulsi Gabbard as their commander in chief in this age of toxic masculinity.

[URL=https:///]Image[/URL] upload
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by vnatale » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:44 pm

Just a short while ago I'd written this elsewhere...

Tulsi Gabbard and Amy Klobuchar always strike me as constantly having the serious mien I like seeing in a presidential candidate. Elizabeth Warren does not have it.


Vinny

jacksonm2 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:52 pm
Damn if I don't like this woman more and more.....

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/ ... ian-asset/

I don't agree with all of her policy proposals but unlike the other DEM candidates she seems to still believe in the democratic process and isn't running for the office of socialist dictator (If you think that is an exaggeration then you haven't paid much attention to the debates).

So here is Hillary suggesting that Tulsi is a plant by the Russians to run as a third party candidate and guarantee the election to Donald Trump.

And we all know that what most Americans really want more than anything right now is a president willing to stand up to the Russians and even go to war if necessary. If Hillary thinks that is a winning strategy she is even more insane that I thought she was.

Come election night, in the unlikely event it would come down to a choice between Tulsi Gabbard and Donald Trump I would just go to bed early and wake up in the morning to see who won. Tulsi as president with Republicans in control of both houses of congress, or at least one, might very well be the ideal situation.

Not going to happen, of course but you never know. A lot of guys, myself as a war veteran included, would love to have someone like Tulsi Gabbard as their commander in chief in this age of toxic masculinity.

[URL=https:///]Image[/URL] upload
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:10 pm

I like Donald Trump because he has balls but I'm not yet convinced that he has big enough cojones to stand up to the generals and the military industrial complex and do what he campaigned on because he secretly knows his balls are inferior to theirs.

Tulsi is an Iraq war vet and medic who has seen blood and guts and has those medals on her chest to prove it so maybe she isn't afraid to stand up to the assholes who are really running this muti-trillion dollar, endless bloody show under the pretense of keeping america "safe".
vnatale wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:44 pm
Just a short while ago I'd written this elsewhere...

Tulsi Gabbard and Amy Klobuchar always strike me as constantly having the serious mien I like seeing in a presidential candidate. Elizabeth Warren does not have it.


Vinny

jacksonm2 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:52 pm
Damn if I don't like this woman more and more.....

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/ ... ian-asset/

I don't agree with all of her policy proposals but unlike the other DEM candidates she seems to still believe in the democratic process and isn't running for the office of socialist dictator (If you think that is an exaggeration then you haven't paid much attention to the debates).

So here is Hillary suggesting that Tulsi is a plant by the Russians to run as a third party candidate and guarantee the election to Donald Trump.

And we all know that what most Americans really want more than anything right now is a president willing to stand up to the Russians and even go to war if necessary. If Hillary thinks that is a winning strategy she is even more insane that I thought she was.

Come election night, in the unlikely event it would come down to a choice between Tulsi Gabbard and Donald Trump I would just go to bed early and wake up in the morning to see who won. Tulsi as president with Republicans in control of both houses of congress, or at least one, might very well be the ideal situation.

Not going to happen, of course but you never know. A lot of guys, myself as a war veteran included, would love to have someone like Tulsi Gabbard as their commander in chief in this age of toxic masculinity.

[URL=https:///]Image[/URL] upload
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:09 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:27 pm
jacksonm2 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:42 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:43 am
Not sure if anyone’s noticed, but the flow of information on the internet has changed a bit since Drudge was a “major influence” TWENTY YEARS AGO.
I may travel in too small of circles but almost everyone I talk to about politics who identifies as a conservative or right leaning libertarian still says "Of course" if I ask them if they read Drudge.

And I could be wrong but I noticed when he really started hitting the impeachment story hard there was a significant increase in the percentage of Republican voters who were in favor of impeachment.

There could be other reasons for that, of course, but that was my take on it.

If Rush Limbaugh turns, it's probably all over (never listened to him very much but as far as I know he's still a major influencer).
Rush Limbaugh is 100% behind Trump, as is Mark Levin.

I don't think either of them were big Trump supporters before he was elected, but now they are all in.

Why? Because of the continuing absurd witch hunts against Trump.
I always liked a lot of what Limbaugh and Levin had to say when I listened but both of them had too much neocon warmongering at times when that was the Republican thing and this eventually caused me to turn them off. Not sure how either of them feels about that part of Trumpism today.

Same thing with Thomas Sowell.

I still see Levin on Fox sometimes and he always impresses me as someone who knows how to hit the nail squarely on the head about a lot of things.

I think my favorite nowadays is Laura Ingraham.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:31 pm

jacksonm2 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:42 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:43 am
Not sure if anyone’s noticed, but the flow of information on the internet has changed a bit since Drudge was a “major influence” TWENTY YEARS AGO.
I may travel in too small of circles but almost everyone I talk to about politics who identifies as a conservative or right leaning libertarian still says "Of course" if I ask them if they read Drudge.
How old are those people you talk to?
[It is a] fact beyond question that soldiers' battles, where one side is entrenched and invisible and the other advancing in attack, are things of the past, except in a wooded country or where all preliminary movements are concealed. We had soldiers' battles here, but by fighting them the lesson has been taught which the world will learn.
- James Barnes. 15 years before WW I.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:22 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:31 pm
jacksonm2 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:42 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:43 am
Not sure if anyone’s noticed, but the flow of information on the internet has changed a bit since Drudge was a “major influence” TWENTY YEARS AGO.
I may travel in too small of circles but almost everyone I talk to about politics who identifies as a conservative or right leaning libertarian still says "Of course" if I ask them if they read Drudge.
How old are those people you talk to?
A few of them were in the old folks home where I live but I do seem to recall that there were some younger folks somewhere along the way. Could have been a long time ago. My memory is foggy nowadays.

Checking out the influence of Drudge today I did find an article from 2018 about Drudge passing the New York Times and becoming the sixth most popular news aggregation website.

I've heard his numbers are declining lately which I don't doubt.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by I Shrugged » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:07 pm

I had drafted this for the good job thread, but it's more appropriate here.
=====

Also, the grassroots ordinary GOP voter has really been transformed by what they are seeing. It started with the deplorables thing and now Trump's opponents are often loudly bashing his supporters, taking up the same deplorables theme and amping it way up. People are very hurt and upset about all of it. And still strongly backing Trump, because he is the one sticking his thumb in the eyes of the swamp, the media, and the screaming mob.

I don't know what to think about the ordinary Dem voter. I am sure they hate Trump, but I have a lot of doubt about their support for socialist economics, drag queen story hours at the elementary school, live birth abortions, etc. I guess what I'm saying is that the GOP conviction/motivation level feels pretty deep, but the Dem's might be quite thin, literally one issue: We hate Trump. (Granted, it's strong for them.) I'd be interested to hear others' opinions on the Dem voters' feelings about all of the wokeness, indignation against whites and men, and socialism.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by I Shrugged » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:12 pm

Re Limbaugh. He's wholly in the Trump camp. Just this week he was talking about how so much of the swamp is the military industry and its lackeys. I was truly surprised to hear him say it. He's also said a lot of things recently that essentially are anti-neocon. Although he still thinks GWB was great and we invaded Iraq for all of the reasons we were told.

He's as devotedly partisan as it gets, but I do think he's getting his eyes opened by Trump. And that is illustrative of the point I made in the other thread: People are seeing the swamp, finally.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by pugchief » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:17 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:07 pm
I'd be interested to hear others' opinions on the Dem voters' feelings about all of the wokeness, indignation against whites and men, and socialism.
So would I. I know there's not a whole lot of left wingers here, but if anyone even leaning in that direction could comment....Moda? Vinny?
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by vnatale » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:43 pm

You asked. I'll answer. But I will NOT be brief.

When I was about 8 or 9 years old I read a book on the United States Presidents to that time. And, I decided that my three favorites were Jefferson, Lincoln, and Grant. Since they were all Republicans I decided I too was now a Republican. Many years later I found out that while Jefferson was called a Republican the parties later flip flopped so that he was really a Democrat. But I did not know that then.

This was truly an independent move on my part as I had no idea how my mother and father voted. In my 4th grade class that year (which was predominantly populated with Italian or Irish Roman Catholics (me being one of them)) myself and Nancy Johnson (who was referred to as being a "Holy Roller") were the only two in the 30+ class of kids who were NOT for Kennedy but, instead, for Nixon. How could I not be since I WAS a Republican. I just thought that all the other kids were for Kennedy because that was who their parents were for. This was in Rhode Island, then and now an extremely Democratic state. Plus an extremely Catholic one. And, with Kennedy being Catholic there was also that factor.

When 1964 rolled around, I was STILL a Republican and spent some time as a 13 year old passing out campaign literature for Goldwater.

By 1968, my senior year of high school, I was officially apathetic. I was later told that the night of the election was the night I saw Cream play for their last time ever (in Rhode Island). Their entire performance was them playing 2 songs for 45 minutes! I seem to remember the two songs as being Toad and Spoonful.

A year later I was a freshman in college and at the beginning of the year started reading underground newspapers and marched in the one of the innumerable anti Viet Nam War marches. I'd say that time period was the turning point of me NOT being a political conservative. That school year culminated in being arrested for protesting the draft the week after Kent State, which at the time set the record for the largest mass arrest ever in U.S. history. But that was soon eclipsed many times.

I cast my first vote ever in 1972, voting for McGovern. Next year I moved to Massachusetts, which had many cars with the bumper sticker - "Don't blame me. I'm from Massachusetts." -- in reference to Massachusetts being the ONLY state that Nixon did not win in 1972.

Since that first vote I have ALWAY voted for the Democratic presidential candidate. Always quite happily doing so and NEVER coming close to ever wanting to vote for the Republican presidential candidate.

However, For decades I was never straight Democrat. I used to use this as part of my email signature: "Another independent moderate who voted for a Republican, a Green/Rainbow, an Independent, and two Democrats in the November 2004 elections."

However, that all changed with the 2006 election. I have never voted for a Republican since that 2004 election. George Bush so damaged the Republican brand that I told myself that anyone who aligned his or herself with him by being in his party (and supporting him) would never get my vote.

So, while I have this pattern of Democratic voting, I have tons of conservative values.

Abortion - 100% against - none of the traditional exceptions (don't see philosophically how you can pick and choose if you really believe it is taking a life. My only exception would be if at the time of birth it was going to be a choice of the mother or the child's life.) In general, I've not seen any "anti"-abortion Republicans ever do anything that would cost them a single vote.

Fiscal - As an accountant I'm super conservative here. I live way below my income. I believe that if you are going to spend a certain amount you'd better be willing to tax enough to cover those expenses. Therefore no deficit.

Local government - I definitely believe that if it is your money you are spending it is spent more carefully. Right now there is going to be a vote on funding a new library in the town where I work. Just putting in round numbers - the state is willing to fund about half of the $20 million or so costs. I've not seen anyone NOT consider the state money as "free" money. And, conversely, I've not seen anyone consider it their money that went to that state, which the state taking some of it away, and then returning it in a lesser amount. I can guarantee the vote would be totally different if the town was looking upon taking on a $20 million expense (which they are really funding) rather than a $10 million expense.

Some of the other hot button issues?

Gays - Let everyone be who they want to be. It does not force me to be anyone I do not want to be.

Pro-life? I've already somewhat touched on this above regarding abortion. A friend and I have oftentimes discussed how we are both 100% pro-life. No abortions. Supporting people while they alive. And, not killing them in wars. Conversely we have Democrats having to be pro-abortion and Republicans not wanting to support mothers / families after the child is born and killing people in wars.

Immigrants - As the son of a father who came from Southern Italy (he could see Pompeii and Mt. Vesuvius) and whose maternal grand parents also came from Southern Italy only an hour away from my father's village (Amalfi Coast), I am big-time pro-immigrant. How could I not be? But legally. Our country put in super restrictive immigration laws in 1920 (that lasted until 1965). I have no idea how my father's poor family was let in around 1927.

I'm 100% capitalist. I've worked with too many people in business who have earned what they have earned through hard work, putting in long hours. I don't believe it should be taken away from them to support those who don't want to work as hard or for as long.

However do believe in the progressive tax system.

Don't believe that there should be preferential capital gains. I'm going to make the same investments with or without preferential capital gains treatment. And, those of us who can get capital gains treatment are in the upper ends of our society. Why do we need the help?

When a woman stopped at my house last year when she was running for either state representative or senator and gave me a brochure of all she was going to do, my only question to her was, "Who is going to pay for this?" I'm for appropriate government but not one that gives free things to everyone.

I'm a big-time believer in personal responsibility. But helping those on the lower ends of society.

I can put the current Democratic candidates in these categories:

1) My favorites - Buttigieg, Yang, Gabbard, Klobuchar
2) Okay - Booker, Castro
3) Only if it came down to them or Trump - Warren, Harris, Rourke
4) ABSOLUTLEY NEVER - I've be voting for some third party candidate - Bernie, Biden

In sum, I'd say that I'm still an Independent that leans Democrat but is not enamored with them. The Republicans and all their policies and the way they present themselves are generally quite repulsive to me.

Trump is highly entertaining but he has no business being president. I've not yet determined his level of intelligence. He has to have had something to get where he has financially. However, he's repeatedly demonstrated that he has no interest in doing the job of being president. I cannot respect that. And, know that he is only following in the footsteps of George Bush, who while intelligent, just did not want to put in the time and effort needed to be president of this country. And, I still consider that Trump has not even come close to damaging this country (and the rest of the world) in the ways (primarily the Iraq War) that George Bush did. All the deaths and casualties for both those of Iraq and our citizens. And, the huge financial cost. I truly believe that all the wrong paths Trump has taken this country in can be reversed by the next president. Those deaths and casualties and money spent can never be reversed.

Vinny

pugchief wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:17 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:07 pm
I'd be interested to hear others' opinions on the Dem voters' feelings about all of the wokeness, indignation against whites and men, and socialism.
So would I. I know there's not a whole lot of left wingers here, but if anyone even leaning in that direction could comment....Moda? Vinny?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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