Gyroscopic Investing

Is it just me, or is the crop of 2020 Dems unusually filled with liars? I don't try to memorize the offenses, but I'm pretty sure several of them have proven track records of lies. And I can think back to the same thing in other years. John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Hillary. Usually they are inflating their bona fides in some fashion. "I was running to the plane as bullets were flying overhead", "I was fired because I was pregnant", those types of things.

Is this more common with Dems? Or am I seeing only what I want to see?

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:17 pm Is it just me, or is the crop of 2020 Dems unusually filled with liars? I don't try to memorize the offenses, but I'm pretty sure several of them have proven track records of lies. And I can think back to the same thing in other years. John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Hillary. Usually they are inflating their bona fides in some fashion. "I was running to the plane as bullets were flying overhead", "I was fired because I was pregnant", those types of things.

Is this more common with Dems? Or am I seeing only what I want to see?

There are plenty of bad traits on display, but I don’t think there is any Dem in the primary that lies more than Trump.

Overall I tend to feel like Republicans lie slightly more than dems.

Presidents all are liars. Most of them aren’t as transparent about it as Trump.

moda0306 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:41 pm

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:17 pm Is it just me, or is the crop of 2020 Dems unusually filled with liars? I don't try to memorize the offenses, but I'm pretty sure several of them have proven track records of lies. And I can think back to the same thing in other years. John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Hillary. Usually they are inflating their bona fides in some fashion. "I was running to the plane as bullets were flying overhead", "I was fired because I was pregnant", those types of things.

Is this more common with Dems? Or am I seeing only what I want to see?

There are plenty of bad traits on display, but I don’t think there is any Dem in the primary that lies more than Trump.

Overall I tend to feel like Republicans lie slightly more than dems.

Well, hot damn, would you be surprised if I told you I see things exactly the opposite? Probably not.

I don't recall any time when you could turn on the TV and get such completely different versions of the truth with people on both sides sounding as clear and convincing as anyone could be in presenting their version.

Makes you want to turn off the TV. Which maybe is a good idea but the circus can be addicting.

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:17 pm Is it just me, or is the crop of 2020 Dems unusually filled with liars? I don't try to memorize the offenses, but I'm pretty sure several of them have proven track records of lies. And I can think back to the same thing in other years. John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Hillary. Usually they are inflating their bona fides in some fashion. "I was running to the plane as bullets were flying overhead", "I was fired because I was pregnant", those types of things.

Is this more common with Dems? Or am I seeing only what I want to see?

I agree that all politicians lie to some extent, but the Dems this year are really out there.
Sanders is probably the least liar among the ones who have a shot at it.
Not that I support him; he's a commie and also corrupt (look up his wife's business dealings).
But he isn't that big a liar compared to Biden or Warren.

I don't see how we can even have a discussion about anything in this country if we cant at least agree on the facts. Youd think in the age of information access to the truth would be easier, but in fact it's becoming much worse. I am really worried at this point regarding our countrys future. We seem to have split ourselves into two teams and are becoming ever more entrenched in our own sides perspective regarding how our country ought to look and operate. Perhaps the abolishment of a two party system would be helpful. Getting big money out of politics would probably also help but I just don't see our country making changes this big anytime soon.

With regards to facts, is there some agreed upon entity that we can refer to in order to determine the veracity of a particular politicians statements? Politifact for example rates around 75% of what Donald Trump says as false:

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/


The scorecards for Sanders and Warren are much better...still some lying but not nearly as much.

https://www.politifact.com/personalitie ... e-sanders/


https://www.politifact.com/personalitie ... th-warren/

(Interestingly, Warren seems to speak mostly in half truths...)


Ignoring Republican and Democrat for a moment and just looking at Trump (even before his election) he basically built a career on lies and deception. Look at his business history. No banks wanted to deal with him because he would lie all the time and wasnt considered a client who would honor his contracts. His relationship with Deutsche bank is incredibly shady and corrupt. The facts surrounding this preceed his election and information regarding his dealings and his character are conveyed by bank employees and business associates. I also think one should look at what Trump's staff say about him. When dozens of people with long successful careers all seem to be saying the same negative things about him, I don't think it makes sense to ignore it.

moda0306 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:41 pm

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:17 pm Is it just me, or is the crop of 2020 Dems unusually filled with liars? I don't try to memorize the offenses, but I'm pretty sure several of them have proven track records of lies. And I can think back to the same thing in other years. John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Hillary. Usually they are inflating their bona fides in some fashion. "I was running to the plane as bullets were flying overhead", "I was fired because I was pregnant", those types of things.

Is this more common with Dems? Or am I seeing only what I want to see?

There are plenty of bad traits on display, but I don’t think there is any Dem in the primary that lies more than Trump.

Overall I tend to feel like Republicans lie slightly more than dems.

I'm not sure about the Democratic candidates vs Trump.

But the current Dems/Left vs Reps/Right? It's not even a contest, IMO. You really think it's the other way around?

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:40 am

moda0306 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:41 pm

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:17 pm Is it just me, or is the crop of 2020 Dems unusually filled with liars? I don't try to memorize the offenses, but I'm pretty sure several of them have proven track records of lies. And I can think back to the same thing in other years. John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Hillary. Usually they are inflating their bona fides in some fashion. "I was running to the plane as bullets were flying overhead", "I was fired because I was pregnant", those types of things.

Is this more common with Dems? Or am I seeing only what I want to see?

There are plenty of bad traits on display, but I don’t think there is any Dem in the primary that lies more than Trump.

Overall I tend to feel like Republicans lie slightly more than dems.

I'm not sure about the Democratic candidates vs Trump.

But the current Dems/Left vs Reps/Right? It's not even a contest, IMO. You really think it's the other way around?

I mean who do you want to focus on? Do we weight by power or just say "most members of congress?" Are we weighing everything they say or just what gets plastered in the media? Of course it's going to seem like dem candidates lie more than some random conservative congressman... they're in the news constantly. And I think most conservatives are trying to keep their heads down so they don't have to be on record defending Trump's ridiculous antics.

And the fact that you're "not sure" about Trump vs dem candidates... Really? Trump is a bullshit factory. I hate standard "politics-speak" as much as the next guy but Trump's bombast isn't any better, and he lies far more.

I won't stand up for Trump on this question. I'm setting him aside for the moment.

I'm just saying that the Dems have this propensity to lie about the dumbest things. They don't feel good enough about their qualifications, so they make these desperate, comical lies. It's self-parody.

I wish Tulsi Gabbard would get more traction. But she's too genuine to know how to get ahead in the Democrat game.

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:17 pm Is it just me, or is the crop of 2020 Dems unusually filled with liars?

Actually, I'd be a lot less comfortable about them if they're all telling the truth!

Some wag once said "How do you know a politician is lying? Answer: his mouth is moving." How true that is (and it applies to the female gender as well).

I wonder is it the Lying, or is it the Hate that has infested or System.
That is doing the most harm.

Edit: As we are Lied to all the time by TV, Radio,Internet Advertisements.

WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:55 am Actually, I'd be a lot less comfortable about them if they're all telling the truth!

No kidding. The deep pockets and motivated niche voter groups in the primary are clearly all single-issue ideologues, and by pandering to each one the candidates all sound completely insane.

Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:41 am

WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:55 am Actually, I'd be a lot less comfortable about them if they're all telling the truth!

No kidding. The deep pockets and motivated niche voter groups in the primary are clearly all single-issue ideologues, and by pandering to each one the candidates all sound completely insane.

One theory is that the party is "vote harvesting". They have candidates that have no realistic chance of becoming the nominee align themselves with particular issues. People interested in those issues support and engage with those candidates. During the nomination process, candidates drop out and turn their supporters, money, and voter data over to the party and eventual nominee. The party gets data and a more engaged base, the nominee avoids pandering to the extremists directly, and the candidates get experience, national exposure, and perhaps a shot at VP or a cabinet position.

When it comes to those on the left standing up for the "truth" I think you need only look to judge Kavanaugh. On the one year anniversary of his confirmation to the supreme court there was a group of protesters outside the supreme court building protesting that they had put an "obvious" sexual predator on the high court. One of the speakers was Julie Swetnick who remembers him spiking the punch so he and his friend could gang-rape women at parties.

That woman's account of events has been completely discredited but the fact that she was invited to speak tells you all you need to know about the far left's relationship with the truth.

Personally, I think those people are truly dangerous because they are suffering from some form of extreme pathology.

jacksonm2 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:32 pm When it comes to those on the left standing up for the "truth" I think you need only look to judge Kavanaugh. On the one year anniversary of his confirmation to the supreme court there was a group of protesters outside the supreme court building protesting that they had put an "obvious" sexual predator on the high court. One of the speakers was Julie Swetnick who remembers him spiking the punch so he and his friend could gang-rape women at parties.

That woman's account of events has been completely discredited but the fact that she was invited to speak tells you all you need to know about the far left's relationship with the truth.

Personally, I think those people are truly dangerous because they are suffering from some form of extreme pathology.

Yes, it’s called TDS.

jacksonm2 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:32 pm When it comes to those on the left standing up for the "truth" I think you need only look to judge Kavanaugh. On the one year anniversary of his confirmation to the supreme court there was a group of protesters outside the supreme court building protesting that they had put an "obvious" sexual predator on the high court. One of the speakers was Julie Swetnick who remembers him spiking the punch so he and his friend could gang-rape women at parties.

That woman's account of events has been completely discredited but the fact that she was invited to speak tells you all you need to know about the far left's relationship with the truth.

Personally, I think those people are truly dangerous because they are suffering from some form of extreme pathology.

Who said anything about “the left standing up for truth.” We were discussing whether generally democrats or republicans lie more... not saying one or the other is a pillar of truth.

The Kavanaugh hearing was one of millions of states where dems and republicans might have lied. You’ve got a long road to hoe to develop a rich comparison.

doodle, the trumpsters/goldbugs/libertarians like that he's (unintentionally) increasing government dysfunction and making it harder for gov to do anything (like "regulate," tax them, take their guns n'gold). When someone's doing something you like, cognitive dissonance prevents you from admitting they'd gladly screw you over too, if they got the chance.

Can you provide more detail of your verifiable data, ie what exactly those friends of yours did for trump

boglerdude wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:42 pm doodle, the trumpsters/goldbugs/libertarians like that he's (unintentionally) increasing government dysfunction and making it harder for gov to do anything (like "regulate," tax them, take their guns n'gold). When someone's doing something you like, cognitive dissonance prevents you from admitting they'd gladly screw you over too, if they got the chance.

Can you provide more detail of your verifiable data, ie what exactly those friends of yours did for trump

And since there are at least two sides to every story, please provide the opposing side’s arguments as well. Has anyone here ever hired a contractor and had a project go less than 100% smoothly?

Boglerdude’s got a good point about cognitive dissonance. Like it or not, everyone has it. The fact that this thread is turning into a discussion about “who lies more” is evidence. All politicians lie, it only matters when they lie about things that you give a crap about.

moda0306 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:27 am

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:40 am

moda0306 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:41 pm

There are plenty of bad traits on display, but I don’t think there is any Dem in the primary that lies more than Trump.

Overall I tend to feel like Republicans lie slightly more than dems.

I'm not sure about the Democratic candidates vs Trump.

But the current Dems/Left vs Reps/Right? It's not even a contest, IMO. You really think it's the other way around?

I mean who do you want to focus on? Do we weight by power or just say "most members of congress?" Are we weighing everything they say or just what gets plastered in the media? Of course it's going to seem like dem candidates lie more than some random conservative congressman... they're in the news constantly. And I think most conservatives are trying to keep their heads down so they don't have to be on record defending Trump's ridiculous antics.

And the fact that you're "not sure" about Trump vs dem candidates... Really? Trump is a bullshit factory. I hate standard "politics-speak" as much as the next guy but Trump's bombast isn't any better, and he lies far more.

You said you think Rs lie slightly more than Ds, but then said that it seems like Ds lie more. I am curious who you were talking about, and what time frame.

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:18 pm

moda0306 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:27 am

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:40 am

I'm not sure about the Democratic candidates vs Trump.

But the current Dems/Left vs Reps/Right? It's not even a contest, IMO. You really think it's the other way around?

I mean who do you want to focus on? Do we weight by power or just say "most members of congress?" Are we weighing everything they say or just what gets plastered in the media? Of course it's going to seem like dem candidates lie more than some random conservative congressman... they're in the news constantly. And I think most conservatives are trying to keep their heads down so they don't have to be on record defending Trump's ridiculous antics.

And the fact that you're "not sure" about Trump vs dem candidates... Really? Trump is a bullshit factory. I hate standard "politics-speak" as much as the next guy but Trump's bombast isn't any better, and he lies far more.

You said you think Rs lie slightly more than Ds, but then said that it seems like Ds lie more. I am curious who you were talking about, and what time frame.

I said "seems" in the context of how often someone shows up in the news, not how much they actually lie. I meant that in a general sense of a passive onlooker into the mainstream media of politics, where dem candidates for president are on TV dozens of times more frequently than republican congressmen.

As far as "who" and "what time frame," mostly the last year of primary politics, as that was what you seemed to be focused on, though I could have been mistaken.

moda0306 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:41 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:18 pm You said you think Rs lie slightly more than Ds, but then said that it seems like Ds lie more. I am curious who you were talking about, and what time frame.

As far as "who" and "what time frame," mostly the last year of primary politics, as that was what you seemed to be focused on, though I could have been mistaken.

No, you are correct.

I said "seems" in the context of how often someone shows up in the news, not how much they actually lie. I meant that in a general sense of a passive onlooker into the mainstream media of politics, where dem candidates for president are on TV dozens of times more frequently than republican congressmen.

That's how I understood it. But given that the Ds get most of the air time, what is it about the Rs that gives you the impression they are lying more?

I don't know what will be on the news tonight with all the networks except Fox but I really don't need to watch to make a prediction. The main topic of conversation will be the godawful thing that Donald Trump did or said that day which will be the most outrageous thing that any American president ever did or said, leaving everyone in a state of total shock with heads still reeling in disbelief on every single show.

It's kind of like a drug addict who keeps needing a bigger and bigger fix.

One thing I've been noticing lately is something that makes me think he might actually be impeached and even removed from office.It's kind of like when Walter Cronkite turned against the war in Vietnam and Johnson said if I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost America (I've heard that is a fake quote and he never really said it but it works for the sake of this post).

In this case Water Cronkite is Matt Drudge. He seems to be clearly in the anti-Trump camp nowadays.

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:35 pm

jacksonm2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:04 pm I don't know what will be on the news tonight with all the networks except Fox but I really don't need to watch to make a prediction. The main topic of conversation will be the godawful thing that Donald Trump did or said that day which will be the most outrageous thing that any American president ever did or said, leaving everyone in a state of total shock with heads still reeling in disbelief on every single show.

It's kind of like a drug addict who keeps needing a bigger and bigger fix.

One thing I've been noticing lately is something that makes me think he might actually be impeached and even removed from office.It's kind of like when Walter Cronkite turned against the war in Vietnam and Johnson said if I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost America (I've heard that is a fake quote and he never really said it but it works for the sake of this post).

In this case Water Cronkite is Matt Drudge. He seems to be clearly in the anti-Trump camp nowadays.

Drudge has been in the anti-Trump camp for quite awhile.

I don't think that means very much.

Time will tell but I thought it was very significant when he apparently decided to go full-in on the impeachment of Trump. Every day he highlights all of the most negative stories and links to none on the opposite side. A lot of people now credit him for being a major influence on the Clinton impeachment so the fact that he is now doing the same thing with Trump seems pretty significant to me. I think they call people like him on the internet nowadays "influencers".

When I sit down in front of my computer to read the news every day, his website is at the top of my list and I know a lot of people who agree with me.

I had always believed it to be true and this is the first time I'd ever read any doubt regarding it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

"President Johnson was deflated by Cronkite’s report, saying, “If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost Middle America.”"

Vinny

jacksonm2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:04 pm I don't know what will be on the news tonight with all the networks except Fox but I really don't need to watch to make a prediction. The main topic of conversation will be the godawful thing that Donald Trump did or said that day which will be the most outrageous thing that any American president ever did or said, leaving everyone in a state of total shock with heads still reeling in disbelief on every single show.

It's kind of like a drug addict who keeps needing a bigger and bigger fix.

One thing I've been noticing lately is something that makes me think he might actually be impeached and even removed from office.It's kind of like when Walter Cronkite turned against the war in Vietnam and Johnson said if I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost America (I've heard that is a fake quote and he never really said it but it works for the sake of this post).

In this case Water Cronkite is Matt Drudge. He seems to be clearly in the anti-Trump camp nowadays.

He was a "major influence"! I remember seeing this on his web site when it happened.

http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/this-d ... dal-92266/

Vinny

jacksonm2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:00 pm

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:35 pm

jacksonm2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:04 pm I don't know what will be on the news tonight with all the networks except Fox but I really don't need to watch to make a prediction. The main topic of conversation will be the godawful thing that Donald Trump did or said that day which will be the most outrageous thing that any American president ever did or said, leaving everyone in a state of total shock with heads still reeling in disbelief on every single show.

It's kind of like a drug addict who keeps needing a bigger and bigger fix.

One thing I've been noticing lately is something that makes me think he might actually be impeached and even removed from office.It's kind of like when Walter Cronkite turned against the war in Vietnam and Johnson said if I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost America (I've heard that is a fake quote and he never really said it but it works for the sake of this post).

In this case Water Cronkite is Matt Drudge. He seems to be clearly in the anti-Trump camp nowadays.

Drudge has been in the anti-Trump camp for quite awhile.

I don't think that means very much.

Time will tell but I thought it was very significant when he apparently decided to go full-in on the impeachment of Trump. Every day he highlights all of the most negative stories and links to none on the opposite side. A lot of people now credit him for being a major influence on the Clinton impeachment so the fact that he is now doing the same thing with Trump seems pretty significant to me. I think they call people like him on the internet nowadays "influencers".

When I sit down in front of my computer to read the news every day, his website is at the top of my list and I know a lot of people who agree with me.