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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:14 pm
by Cortopassi
dualstow wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:08 pm
Libertarian666,
what is your main reaction when someone suddenly resigns from the current administration or is asked to resign?
- There is something fundamentally wrong here
- Ok, this is part of Trump’s personality problem, but someone with a tougher constitution will come along and it’ll be a better fit to work with the President
- They were wrong for the job anyway / it’s hard to find good help these days
- Other:___________
- Some of the above?
I am most amazed at these generals, heads of companies, top professionals, etc who come into this admin, and for the most part, apparently because he has the title of President, become these meek, reticent people toward him. Yes, Sir! type of mentality. Does no one ever call him out? Ok, yes, they do, but only once they've left generally.

They are all, also, for the most part, obscenely wealthy. Why in God's name would you want to put yourself through this?

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:20 pm
by dualstow
Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:14 pm
Does no one ever call him out? Ok, yes, they do, but only once they've left generally.
There’s a logic to that, though, right?
One hears talk of gentle attempts to educate the President- “Sir, you just can’t do that” — but there’s not much point in really calling him out until it’s time to go.

I should reiterate that I agree with Tech that Mr Trump has gotten some things done that his predecessors failed to accomplish. Maybe his Crazy Ivan approach is what we need to get some of the dirty work done, to counter Kim Jong Eun, etc, before we put a nice guy in the office and get back to sanity.

Still, things could easily go sour before his second term is over, and none of it will have been worth it.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:07 pm
by flyingpylon
dualstow wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:08 pm
Libertarian666,
what is your main reaction when someone suddenly resigns from the current administration or is asked to resign?
- There is something fundamentally wrong here
- Ok, this is part of Trump’s personality problem, but someone with a tougher constitution will come along and it’ll be a better fit to work with the President
- They were wrong for the job anyway / it’s hard to find good help these days
- Other:___________
- Some of the above?
It's also possible that people take those jobs with the expectation that the political establishment's game will be played the way it always has, and are then surprised to find that the old rules no longer apply.

If you've been happy with the government's performance over the last several decades, you might see that as a bad thing. If not, you might think it's worth tolerating some turmoil to try a different approach.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:37 pm
by Kriegsspiel
I listened to Bernie Sanders today on Joe Rogan, and one thing he said made me get on the search ("do american drug buyers subsidize other countries"). He said he could go across the border to Canada and get the exact same medicine for 1/10 the price in the US. I thought that sounded like we were subsidizing Canada's drugs. According to this article, that is what's happening:
The Europeans and Canadians (as well as the rest of the world) are free-riding on the back of American medical innovators. European countries and Canada – our trading allies – impede access and set artificially low prices for prescription medicines. If U.S. companies refuse to acquiesce on prices, these foreign governments threaten to steal their patents by using compulsory licensing. It’s that simple: Europe and Canada refuse to pay their fair share forcing Americans to pay more.

Americans pay the highest prices for prescription drugs in the world. In 2016, U.S. spending on pharmaceuticals totaled more than $450 billion – a rate that’s two to six times higher than the world average.

The reason boils down to “compulsory licensing.” As the World Trade Organization explains, this is when “a government allows someone else to produce a patented product or process without the consent of the patent owner or plans to use the patent-protected invention itself.” These foreign governments put U.S. biopharmaceutical companies in a proverbial “gun-to-the-head” situation – i.e., sell us the drugs at the bogus price we demand, or don’t and we’ll just take it.
Sounds like something that would drive Trump wild, analogous to the NATO military spending issue.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:55 pm
by dualstow
I think that’s a fair point, flyingpylon. I don’t know if it accurately reflects the reasons for the majority of these people leaving, but perhaps it doesn’t matter.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:30 pm
by dualstow
Simonjester wrote: i am guessing a certain percentage of the people leaving is due to their being government workers.. used to having no accountability, passing the buck, and generally working political jobs where the only thing they really do is play politics to lever into the next one, the culture shock for a career bureaucratic being expected to preform and a business man used to having real world employees who do preform, is probably tough on both sides and leads to contentious relationships..
That sounds pretty much like what flyingpylon was saying. It must be true to an extent. But, it seems like there were just a few Nikki Haleys and John Kellys, vs an endless line of others through the revolving door.

Is it really a case of ‘they were the problem’ and Trump was not?
Simonjester wrote: i would say a fare percentage are the problem.. some of it is that trump is undoubtedly an asshole and is abusive, in my experience many leaders/bosses that are driven to succeed in high pressure environments, and who are used to being the shot caller, tend to view everything through a success lens, and everything is either moving towards their vision of success or slowing progress towards it down, and when the people that work with them are seen as an impediment to success (real or imagined) they will be a real prick towards them, the "step or or get out of the way" world view tends to lead to a harsh and unforgiving environment where harsh and unforgiving assholes are trying to get stuff done...

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:14 am
by WiseOne
If it were just a few people leaving the White House staff I might think that. Some of the people leaving hint at constant bullying, temper tantrums/rages, and gaslighting that sound like there's more going on than just the shift from politics as usual to a business environment.

Shekel, are you serious about your statement about Trump's re-election being "a threat to national security"? That's the single scariest thing I've heard in a very, very long time - that anyone would use such an unsupported and frankly ridiculous statement to justify what amounts to a coup and overturning of a US election. That would do far more damage to our government system than 8 years of Trump's tweets put together.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:07 am
by flyingpylon
Realistically, the current situation with people coming and going from the administration is probably a combination of all of the factors mentioned previously. I'm sure that includes some people that are nuts, some that think Trump is nuts, and everything in between. I don't claim to know what is really going on and I don't necessarily trust what "sources familiar with the situation" say, so I am left to speculate with everyone else.

One thing is for sure, people will express extreme indignation when they feel that their "way of life" is being disrupted or destroyed and they will go to great lengths to stop it. Many in the political establishment have spent decades of their lives navigating, working, and perpetuating a system of government that has become increasingly distant from what some would call the "real world". These establishment folks are not just going to give all of that up quietly. Trump is the first president in my lifetime to come from outside established political circles and it appears there's a lot of natural resistance to that from all sides of the political spectrum.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:12 am
by shekels
WiseOne wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:14 am
If it were just a few people leaving the White House staff I might think that. Some of the people leaving hint at constant bullying, temper tantrums/rages, and gaslighting that sound like there's more going on than just the shift from politics as usual to a business environment.

Shekel, are you serious about your statement about Trump's re-election being "a threat to national security"? That's the single scariest thing I've heard in a very, very long time - that anyone would use such an unsupported and frankly ridiculous statement to justify what amounts to a coup and overturning of a US election. That would do far more damage to our government system than 8 years of Trump's tweets put together.
Sorry, the statement came from the last paragraph in a Bloomberg article by Bill Dudley
"There’s even an argument that the election itself falls within the Fed’s purview. After all, Trump’s reelection arguably presents a threat to the U.S. "

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... nald-trump

So some in the Fed are also Political, So there is one more reason to question their Fiduciary duty to the United States.

Bill Dudley is a senior research scholar at Princeton University’s Center for Economic Policy Studies. He served as president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York from 2009 to 2018, and as vice chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee. He was previously chief U.S. economist at Goldman Sachs.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:41 pm
by moda0306
shekels wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:12 am
WiseOne wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:14 am
If it were just a few people leaving the White House staff I might think that. Some of the people leaving hint at constant bullying, temper tantrums/rages, and gaslighting that sound like there's more going on than just the shift from politics as usual to a business environment.

Shekel, are you serious about your statement about Trump's re-election being "a threat to national security"? That's the single scariest thing I've heard in a very, very long time - that anyone would use such an unsupported and frankly ridiculous statement to justify what amounts to a coup and overturning of a US election. That would do far more damage to our government system than 8 years of Trump's tweets put together.
Sorry, the statement came from the last paragraph in a Bloomberg article by Bill Dudley
"There’s even an argument that the election itself falls within the Fed’s purview. After all, Trump’s reelection arguably presents a threat to the U.S. "

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... nald-trump

So some in the Fed are also Political, So there is one more reason to question their Fiduciary duty to the United States.

Bill Dudley is a senior research scholar at Princeton University’s Center for Economic Policy Studies. He served as president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York from 2009 to 2018, and as vice chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee. He was previously chief U.S. economist at Goldman Sachs.
WiseOne,

What do you consider a “very, very long time?” That statement pales in comparison to what was said by broad swaths of “the right” about Obama.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:53 am
by shekels
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:41 pm
shekels wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:12 am
WiseOne wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:14 am
If it were just a few people leaving the White House staff I might think that. Some of the people leaving hint at constant bullying, temper tantrums/rages, and gaslighting that sound like there's more going on than just the shift from politics as usual to a business environment.

Shekel, are you serious about your statement about Trump's re-election being "a threat to national security"? That's the single scariest thing I've heard in a very, very long time - that anyone would use such an unsupported and frankly ridiculous statement to justify what amounts to a coup and overturning of a US election. That would do far more damage to our government system than 8 years of Trump's tweets put together.
Sorry, the statement came from the last paragraph in a Bloomberg article by Bill Dudley
"There’s even an argument that the election itself falls within the Fed’s purview. After all, Trump’s reelection arguably presents a threat to the U.S. "

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... nald-trump

So some in the Fed are also Political, So there is one more reason to question their Fiduciary duty to the United States.

Bill Dudley is a senior research scholar at Princeton University’s Center for Economic Policy Studies. He served as president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York from 2009 to 2018, and as vice chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee. He was previously chief U.S. economist at Goldman Sachs.
WiseOne,

What do you consider a “very, very long time?” That statement pales in comparison to what was said by broad swaths of “the right” about Obama.
Yes 0bama caught crap from "the right " So does that make the statement OK?

How many in "the right" that held key positions, could crash the economy and then 0bama's Presidency?

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:36 pm
by moda0306
shekels wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:53 am
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:41 pm
shekels wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:12 am


Sorry, the statement came from the last paragraph in a Bloomberg article by Bill Dudley
"There’s even an argument that the election itself falls within the Fed’s purview. After all, Trump’s reelection arguably presents a threat to the U.S. "

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... nald-trump

So some in the Fed are also Political, So there is one more reason to question their Fiduciary duty to the United States.

Bill Dudley is a senior research scholar at Princeton University’s Center for Economic Policy Studies. He served as president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York from 2009 to 2018, and as vice chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee. He was previously chief U.S. economist at Goldman Sachs.
WiseOne,

What do you consider a “very, very long time?” That statement pales in comparison to what was said by broad swaths of “the right” about Obama.
Yes 0bama caught crap from "the right " So does that make the statement OK?

How many in "the right" that held key positions, could crash the economy and then 0bama's Presidency?
I think it's totally reasonable to assess a President as a threat to this country (though I'd like more specifics laid out). I agree that it's a terrible idea to use the deep state to engineer a coup or anything similar. Hence me being an advocate of disassembling the CIA, most of the FBI, vast swaths of the NSA, ICE, DHS, and 2/3 of the military. But what's dangerous is that they have the ability to do so and have done so, not that someone with little power says it out loud.

I don't mind valid assessments of anti-Trump hysteria in certain instances being overblown in the context of modern politics or more crucial issues. What I find ridiculous is folks leaning on the bad arguments and straw-manning the entire "left" as having no valid complaints while simultaneously ignoring the barrage of horse$hit attacks that Obama received... while, of course, he was committing war-crimes, expanding the surveillance state, etc (all of which were valid criticisms, rarely levied by "the right").

Making "the left" into a uniquely duplicitous group, while trying to combine the worst aspects of centrist corporatist war-mongers (Hillary Clinton), radical socialist revolutionaries (Antifa), and hysterical immature feministas into some sort of caricature is utterly ridiculous when juxtaposed against collective behavior of similar wings of "the right." For every AOC there are two Rapey Roy Moore. For every Hillary there is a Jeb. For every antifa nazi-puncher there's a white nationalist planning to shoot up a public locale (if they haven't already).

When AOC has her finger on the button, I'll worry about the soc-dem wing of the Democratic Party taking over. Until then, we have a man-baby with his finger on the button and fascistic police forces (but I repeat myself) at his disposal. Let's be adults and focus on the most powerful and violent powers/institutions in the country and how they should be used or, preferably, disassembled.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:48 pm
by ochotona
Mar A Lago is going to be destroyed by the hurricane

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:49 pm
by Libertarian666
ochotona wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:48 pm
Mar A Lago is going to be destroyed by the hurricane
I suspect that it is well protected.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:36 am
by ochotona
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:49 pm
ochotona wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:48 pm
Mar A Lago is going to be destroyed by the hurricane
I suspect that it is well protected.
When a hotel on a barrier island meets a Cat 4, it is going to get messed up. It's not a military building, it's a hotel.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:28 pm
by Libertarian666
ochotona wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:36 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:49 pm
ochotona wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:48 pm
Mar A Lago is going to be destroyed by the hurricane
I suspect that it is well protected.
When a hotel on a barrier island meets a Cat 4, it is going to get messed up. It's not a military building, it's a hotel.
I'm sure it will be damaged. I doubt it will be destroyed.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:09 am
by Cortopassi
Gotta love the drawn in Sharpie line that just *barely* clips Alabama.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/politics ... index.html

Image

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:33 am
by ochotona
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:09 am
Gotta love the drawn in Sharpie line that just *barely* clips Alabama.

Self-inflicted injury. He could've just said, "Look the NOAA forecast was within XXX miles of Alabama, that's close enough to warrant concern" and moved on. But no, he had to use a childish, amateur stunt with a Sharpie.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:07 pm
by dualstow
I saw that on another forum. Odd. O0

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:39 pm
by Mountaineer
image1.jpeg
image1.jpeg (166.31 KiB) Viewed 7906 times

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:38 pm
by Kriegsspiel
ochotona wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:33 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:09 am
Gotta love the drawn in Sharpie line that just *barely* clips Alabama.

Self-inflicted injury. He could've just said, "Look the NOAA forecast was within XXX miles of Alabama, that's close enough to warrant concern" and moved on. But no, he had to use a childish, amateur stunt with a Sharpie.
Trump not only gives a shit; he gives extra shits! ;D

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:40 pm
by Smith1776
Joe Biden had better not be the Democratic candidate...

His creeping on little girls alone would torpedo him amongst the liberal base.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:15 pm
by ochotona
Smith1776 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:40 pm
Joe Biden had better not be the Democratic candidate...

His creeping on little girls alone would torpedo him amongst the liberal base.
Biden is way past his sell by date

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:20 am
by Smith1776
ochotona wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:15 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:40 pm
Joe Biden had better not be the Democratic candidate...

His creeping on little girls alone would torpedo him amongst the liberal base.
Biden is way past his sell by date
Agreed.

Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:24 am
by shekels
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:09 am
Gotta love the drawn in Sharpie line that just *barely* clips Alabama.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/politics ... index.html
Ah weather forecasters, reminds me of economists.

It boils down to the models that you want to go with.

“Perhaps it is better to be irresponsible and right, than to be responsible and wrong.”

I heard Disney was going to be hit. ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-19yMj2p23I

Did not read article I avoid Star Magazine or CNN and The National Enquirer Grocery Store Checkout Papers.