Will Trump be Re-elected?

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Will Trump be Re-elected?

Trump is more effective than people are willing to admit [ala Scott Adams] and will be re-elected.
24
37%
Hillary will run again in 2020, and thus Trump will beat her again.
3
5%
Trump will cause the GOP to lose one or both houses of congress in the mid-term elections.
6
9%
The Dems in congress will be so insufferable, Trumps wins by a small margin despite them.
15
23%
Trump will choose not to run for re-election, since he never really wanted the job anyway.
7
11%
Trump is a disaster and will lose by a landslide.
5
8%
Trump will not only lose, but will lose to a candidate so far to the left that people will wish he'd stayed.
3
5%
Other, please elaborate.
2
3%
 
Total votes: 65
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:06 pm

Yang seems like a really good dude.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by pmward » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:07 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:29 pm
Well, I meant that to mean Trump, not just in general. Because I would agree with you if the president was utterly failing and nobody liked him. But if 90% of his party likes him and he's moving the ball forward, that's not enough of a reason to get rid of him. There was one guy who left the Republican party because he doesn't like Trump (Amash, from Michigan), which is certainly putting your money where your mouth is.
Jeff Flake gave up his seat because of Trump as well, and has publicly stated that the U.S. would be better with a Dem president in 2020 than with Trump. There are other quotes I've read (though I didn't save links so they are not handy) of Republican congressmen making negative comments about Trump and his policies. Trump is doing more harm than good, and I think most of the actual Republican politicians realize this. Most of his policies are completely opposite of traditional Republican policies, as such they are opposite of most of the Republican congressmen. His brainwashed lay-followers on the other hand would still cheer for him regardless of what he did. He literally could repeat everything Hitler did, and they would still cheer. Most of the lay-Republicans are uneducated and are just happy he is not Obama, Bernie, AOC, or have the last name Clinton HAHA. So I don't put much weight into the Republican only approval ratings. His historically low overall approval rating tells the real story.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by dualstow » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:01 pm

Yang, yup. I like him.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by drumminj » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:28 pm

pmward wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:07 pm
His brainwashed lay-followers on the other hand would still cheer for him regardless of what he did.
Do we really need the ad-hominems here? You may not like someone, and disagree with their behaviors or policies, but are you really intending to say that anyone reading here who supports our sitting president is "brainwashed"????

Edit: "to" -> "who"
Last edited by drumminj on Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by WiseOne » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:45 am

drumminj wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:28 pm
pmward wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:07 pm
His brainwashed lay-followers on the other hand would still cheer for him regardless of what he did.
Do we really need the ad-hominems here? You may not like someone, and disagree with their behaviors or policies, but are you really intending to say that anyone reading here to supports our sitting president is "brainwashed"????
If there's any brainwashing going on, it's by the mainstream media.

Whether you like Trump as a person or not, though, is beside the point. The Democrats are going to run either Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders. I can't see Joe Biden being allowed to run, even though he's the one I'd be most likely to vote for. Bernie Sanders has proposed a 16 TRILLION $ version of the Green New Deal, and plans to pay for it by increasing taxes on "the rich" by (according to posted details of his tax plan) increasing taxes across the board by ~15%. He's gone much further to the left since the last election and even just in the last month, it looks like to me. Elizabeth Warren has an assortment of $1-2 trillion $ proposals, and plans to pay for them with a new wealth tax (for a start). All are open-borders enthusiasts, which is not as popular a position as the press likes to think. It's not clear if there will be a Republican primary challenger. Nikki Haley, William Weld, and Jeff Flake could very likely defeat Trump in the primary, but so far no one has stepped up except *maybe* William Weld.

No matter who the Republicans run, though, I think they'll win simply because the center left/middle/right population won't be able to stomach those extreme left platforms. What it may come down to is this: how much are you willing to pay out of your own pocket for the pleasure of not hearing about Trump's tweets? Bernie Sanders, if he gets his way, will cost me in the neighborhood of $30,000 a year. I have a much cheaper option: don't read the news. As far any potential economic fallout, the PP will take care of things nicely. Sorry to be selfish but that's just how it is.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by drumminj » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:02 am

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:45 am
how much are you willing to pay out of your own pocket for the pleasure of not hearing about Trump's tweets?
Sadly, many people are happy to pay out of other peoples' pockets, which is how many will think of any "wealth tax".
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by pmward » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:47 am

drumminj wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:28 pm
pmward wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:07 pm
His brainwashed lay-followers on the other hand would still cheer for him regardless of what he did.
Do we really need the ad-hominems here? You may not like someone, and disagree with their behaviors or policies, but are you really intending to say that anyone reading here who supports our sitting president is "brainwashed"????

Edit: "to" -> "who"
I don't think anyone who really takes an unbiased look at Trumps actions can come to the conclusion that his motives are good, that he is a good person, that he is a good leader, or that he deserves to be the president. Judge the tree by the fruit it bears. The fruit we have gotten from Trump is all rotten to the core.
Last edited by pmward on Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by pmward » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:06 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:01 am
pmward wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:47 am
drumminj wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:28 pm


Do we really need the ad-hominems here? You may not like someone, and disagree with their behaviors or policies, but are you really intending to say that anyone reading here who supports our sitting president is "brainwashed"????

Edit: "to" -> "who"
I don't think anyone who really takes an unbiased look at Trumps actions can come to the conclusion that his motives are good, that he is a good person, that he is a good leader, or that he deserves to be the president. Judge the tree by the fruit it bears, and the fruit we have gotten from Trump is all rotten to the core.
Maybe you ought to consider that there are people who honestly disagree with you.

Me, for example. I believe Trump is in general a good person, that his motives are basically sound, and that he has accomplished a lot against tremendous opposition.

And I'm not a die-hard Republican. I voted for Obama the first time because he was running against McCain, and I still think McCain would have been worse.
What is the fruit we have gotten from Trump? Regular Tweet-storms with no intellectual backing or sense behind them, a Cold War with China, a deteriorating economy that is weak and potentially on the verge of recession, what is one step away from concentration camps for illegal aliens, more political and civil unrest than we have had in the post-Vietnam era, policies that have led to a widening wealth gap, a war against the Federal Reserves independence in a selfish bid to buy himself re-election (calling the Fed chair he nominated an enemy of the state in public, really??), a president that is threatening to completely disband the Federal reserve so he can take charge of monetary policy. How is this the actions of a "good person"?!?! How are these "sound motives"?!?! I'm dying to hear how these evils can be twisted and distorted to sound like they are good.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by pmward » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:11 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:10 am
pmward wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:06 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:01 am


Maybe you ought to consider that there are people who honestly disagree with you.

Me, for example. I believe Trump is in general a good person, that his motives are basically sound, and that he has accomplished a lot against tremendous opposition.

And I'm not a die-hard Republican. I voted for Obama the first time because he was running against McCain, and I still think McCain would have been worse.
What is the fruit we have gotten from Trump? Regular Tweet-storms with no intellectual backing or sense behind them, a Cold War with China, a deteriorating economy that is weak and potentially on the verge of recession, what is one step away from concentration camps for illegal aliens, more political and civil unrest than we have had in the post-Vietnam era, policies that have led to a widening wealth gap, a war against the Federal Reserves independence in a selfish bid to buy himself re-election (calling the Fed chair he nominated an enemy of the state in public, really??), a president that is threatening to completely disband the Federal reserve so he can take charge of monetary policy. How is this the actions of a "good person"?!?! How are these "sound motives"?!?! I'm dying to hear how these evils can be twisted and distorted to sound like they are good.
I hope you recover from your TDS.
Avoiding answering the question I asked and failure to address the very valid points I raised, while insulting me as a person, is not a way to win the debate.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by InsuranceGuy » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:22 am

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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by flyingpylon » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:24 am

pmward wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:06 am
What is the fruit we have gotten from Trump? Regular Tweet-storms with no intellectual backing or sense behind them, a Cold War with China, a deteriorating economy that is weak and potentially on the verge of recession, what is one step away from concentration camps for illegal aliens, more political and civil unrest than we have had in the post-Vietnam era, policies that have led to a widening wealth gap, a war against the Federal Reserves independence in a selfish bid to buy himself re-election (calling the Fed chair he nominated an enemy of the state in public, really??), a president that is threatening to completely disband the Federal reserve so he can take charge of monetary policy. How is this the actions of a "good person"?!?! How are these "sound motives"?!?! I'm dying to hear how these evils can be twisted and distorted to sound like they are good.
What are your most frequently visited or watched news sources?
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by pmward » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:31 am

EDIT: deleting comment and leaving conversation, as I can feel this discussion is having a negative effect on my inner peace, and it's just not worth it, imo.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Ad Orientem » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:22 pm

National Review: Trump — or What, Exactly?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/ ... t-critics/

An interesting piece. I am not a Trump fan at all. But they do raise some fair points.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:28 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:22 pm
National Review: Trump — or What, Exactly?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/ ... t-critics/

An interesting piece. I am not a Trump fan at all. But they do raise some fair points.
All I wonder is could he have gotten to the same place with a kinder and gentler tone, or is the style necessary to get to where he's at.

I wish he'd run up against the medical/pharma industry a bit more than he has (seems very little). A bit too stuck on tariffs and immigration if you ask me.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by ochotona » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:10 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:28 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:22 pm
National Review: Trump — or What, Exactly?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/ ... t-critics/

An interesting piece. I am not a Trump fan at all. But they do raise some fair points.
All I wonder is could he have gotten to the same place with a kinder and gentler tone, or is the style necessary to get to where he's at.

I wish he'd run up against the medical/pharma industry a bit more than he has (seems very little). A bit too stuck on tariffs and immigration if you ask me.

People voted for him because they thought he had the balls to go after entrenched special interests. Turns out, his White House economic team are all swamp creatures, and also Trump trips over his own tie, and God only knows what Vlad has on him after how Trump was defending Russia at the G-7... PP tapes, maybe with minors, money laundering, ugh..
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by WiseOne » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:09 pm

pmward wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:47 am
Judge the tree by the fruit it bears. The fruit we have gotten from Trump is all rotten to the core.
I completely agree with your first sentence, but not so much the second. How about this, for example:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/26/perspect ... index.html

I was really surprised that CNN published this. I guess they couldn't refute it.

Libertarian666: I didn't say that ANY Republican could beat Trump in the primary. I do think that an intelligent, well-spoken, centrist Republican like the ones I listed have a good shot, though. It depends on whether they will carry the flag of addressing what Trump saw (correctly, in my view) as the major threats to the US economy - while acting a bit more grown-up.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by WiseOne » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:52 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:54 am
So if you like Trump's policies, why would you take a chance that an alternative candidate would actually fulfill them?
Well you may not agree with my thought process but for what it's worth...

What I like is how he has cut through the Washington insider B-S to identify serious problems that everyone else (politicians and mainstream media alike) either were blind to, or pretended not to exist or even pretended to be Good Things (like exporting manufacturing jobs to low-wage locales then importing finished products back here, or importing unskilled and welfare-dependent Latin Americans to keep corporate wages low). Because he has done this, the rest of the Republican field will know that they can't go back to the pre-2016 status quo, not if they want a chance at winning the primary.

What I don't like is that he has no idea how to go about addressing these problems. He's a bull in a china shop and doesn't play well with others, and as a result he is mostly limited to solving problems via executive order. All those can be (and probably will be) reversed the moment a Democrat takes office. The tax reform bill was a notable exception, but I doubt he can repeat that accomplishment for anything else given that he's gotten precisely nowhere with immigration and health care proposals, not to mention The Wall. And, those traits appear to be getting worse, although maybe that's just a perception because the press has lost all professional restraint. High turnover of Administration staff is probably a better indicator.

If another candidate with better people skills could pick up where Trump left off that would be ideal.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by ochotona » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:30 am

People wanted a Change President. They got an incompetent Change President.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by ochotona » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:33 am

Now Mr T wants to seize private land to build his wall, promising to pardon Federal officials charged with breaking the law.

"Just take the land".

Setting up for another Ruby Ridge, another Waco.

If Texas flips Dem in 2020, we won't see another Republican President for a long while...
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:58 am

ochotona wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:33 am
Now Mr T wants to seize private land to build his wall, promising to pardon Federal officials charged with breaking the law.

"Just take the land".

Setting up for another Ruby Ridge, another Waco.

If Texas flips Dem in 2020, we won't see another Republican President for a long while...
Government Seizes land ALL THE TIME..through eminent domain. Agree with it or not they still seem to get the Land.

https://www.politico.com/2016-election/ ... ent/texas/

If Texas does flip, There will be a lot more call and pressure to push for the secession movement.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:59 am

ochotona wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:30 am
People wanted a Change President. They got an incompetent Change President.
I disagree. I think he has done more than anyone could expect given the fanatical opposition by almost all of the media and most of Congress.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:09 am

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... nald-trump

There’s even an argument that the election itself falls within the Fed’s purview. After all, Trump’s reelection arguably presents a threat to the U.S. and global economy, to the Fed’s independence and its ability to achieve its employment and inflation objectives. If the goal of monetary policy is to achieve the best long-term economic outcome, then Fed officials should consider how their decisions will affect the political outcome in 2020.

So is the Banking cartel pushing to control the President of the United States along with Monetary policy?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:19 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:12 am
shekels wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:09 am
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... nald-trump

There’s even an argument that the election itself falls within the Fed’s purview. After all, Trump’s reelection arguably presents a threat to the U.S. and global economy, to the Fed’s independence and its ability to achieve its employment and inflation objectives. If the goal of monetary policy is to achieve the best long-term economic outcome, then Fed officials should consider how their decisions will affect the political outcome in 2020.

So is the Banking cartel pushing to control the President of the United States along with Monetary policy?
Why not? They don't want any limits to their power.
Aah. Just follow us along on The road to Serfdom.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by dualstow » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:08 pm

Libertarian666,
what is your main reaction when someone suddenly resigns from the current administration or is asked to resign?
- There is something fundamentally wrong here
- Ok, this is part of Trump’s personality problem, but someone with a tougher constitution will come along and it’ll be a better fit to work with the President
- They were wrong for the job anyway / it’s hard to find good help these days
- Other:___________
- Some of the above?
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:14 pm

dualstow wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:08 pm
Libertarian666,
what is your main reaction when someone suddenly resigns from the current administration or is asked to resign?
- There is something fundamentally wrong here
- Ok, this is part of Trump’s personality problem, but someone with a tougher constitution will come along and it’ll be a better fit to work with the President
- They were wrong for the job anyway / it’s hard to find good help these days
- Other:___________
- Some of the above?
I am most amazed at these generals, heads of companies, top professionals, etc who come into this admin, and for the most part, apparently because he has the title of President, become these meek, reticent people toward him. Yes, Sir! type of mentality. Does no one ever call him out? Ok, yes, they do, but only once they've left generally.

They are all, also, for the most part, obscenely wealthy. Why in God's name would you want to put yourself through this?
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