Trump as tragicomedy

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sophie
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by sophie » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:09 am

OK got that about outright taxes. However there's lots of closely related possibilities as dualstow points out. Here's an interesting article on the power of the executive branch to seize property:

https://scholarship.law.edu/cgi/viewcon ... =lawreview

Looks like it's controversial, but there are precedents. Think it's possible that a president could order the seizure of coal plants and oil refineries under a climate-change emergency declaration?
technovelist
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by technovelist » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:35 am

dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:14 am
technovelist wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:50 pm
sophie wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:21 pm
...
What if the next Democratic president declares an emergency to deal with climate change, and calls for, say, a one time 10% tax on the value of every business? That would be just as legit as the intent to redirect funds from hurricane relief to building the wall.

(p.s. I'm quite happy not being an older guy. Maddy and I get to hold down the X chromosome fort around here.)
...
I'm not aware of any legal provision for the President to confiscate money from people by declaring a tax.
FDR seized your gold by executive order. I’m sure they could think of something and not call it a tax.
That was far before Trump's supposed "innovative" use of emergency declarations, so I don't understand the relevance.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by technovelist » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:37 am

sophie wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:09 am
OK got that about outright taxes. However there's lots of closely related possibilities as dualstow points out. Here's an interesting article on the power of the executive branch to seize property:

https://scholarship.law.edu/cgi/viewcon ... =lawreview

Looks like it's controversial, but there are precedents. Think it's possible that a president could order the seizure of coal plants and oil refineries under a climate-change emergency declaration?
A President can order ANYTHING.

Whether that order will take effect or not depends on a lot of things.

I don't think Trump's use of powers granted to the President by Congress is one of those things, though.
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dualstow
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:05 am

technovelist wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:35 am
dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:14 am
technovelist wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:50 pm

...
I'm not aware of any legal provision for the President to confiscate money from people by declaring a tax.
FDR seized your gold by executive order. I’m sure they could think of something and not call it a tax.
That was far before Trump's supposed "innovative" use of emergency declarations, so I don't understand the relevance.
Why does the passage of time make it irrelevant?
The guy in the latest gold commercials pronounces it “goad.” They couldn’t find someone who pronounces the “L”?
I do identify with Fredo. My brother is the smart one.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by technovelist » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:47 am

dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:05 am
technovelist wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:35 am
dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:14 am

FDR seized your gold by executive order. I’m sure they could think of something and not call it a tax.
That was far before Trump's supposed "innovative" use of emergency declarations, so I don't understand the relevance.
Why does the passage of time make it irrelevant?
I don't understand the claim that Trump's use of an emergency declaration means that a future President is more likely to issue a confiscation order when the precedent is much older than that.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by stuper1 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:04 pm

boglerdude wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:26 am
"Meanwhile American culture continues to disappear. Big business wants the money and couldn't care less about culture."

As a stockholder you are big business. And what is "culture." We want immigrants who will increase GDP and not drain it, maybe instead of a border wall it should be an obstacle course
What is culture? I googled it. It says culture is the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group. Are you saying that you don't believe that is actually a real thing? Do you enjoy traveling? When you go to China is it the same as going to Zimbabwe? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Personally, I think it's a good thing. It makes traveling more enjoyable.

Believe it or not, America has a culture too. Big business is ruining our culture by encouraging immigration at rates that are too high to allow the immigrants to assimilate to our culture. Instead they tend to stay in their own groups and keep too much of their own culture. Is that a good thing? I say no. If they want to keep their own culture, why don't they stay in their own country and improve it from within? But it's really not the immigrants' fault. You can't blame them for wanting to better their own standard of living. It's the fault of the powers in this country for allowing too much legal and illegal immigration.

I have no idea whether you were born in this country or how old you are. I was born in the mid-1960s. I can certainly say that the America I live in today is quite different from the one I grew up in. I don't think the changes are for the better.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:26 pm

technovelist wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:47 am
dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:05 am
technovelist wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:35 am


That was far before Trump's supposed "innovative" use of emergency declarations, so I don't understand the relevance.
Why does the passage of time make it irrelevant?
I don't understand the claim that Trump's use of an emergency declaration means that a future President is more likely to issue a confiscation order when the precedent is much older than that.
I see. Sophie was making the case for Trump's recent "emergency" setting a precedent and you responded that the president doesn't have the power to suddenly tax. When I mentioned gold, it was just as an example of where-there's-a-will-there's-a-way, i.e. it wouldn't necessarily come in the form of a tax or be called a tax. I didn't mean the gold seizure itself as a sort of precedent that set things in motion.
The guy in the latest gold commercials pronounces it “goad.” They couldn’t find someone who pronounces the “L”?
I do identify with Fredo. My brother is the smart one.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by technovelist » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:14 pm

dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:26 pm
technovelist wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:47 am
dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:05 am

Why does the passage of time make it irrelevant?
I don't understand the claim that Trump's use of an emergency declaration means that a future President is more likely to issue a confiscation order when the precedent is much older than that.
I see. Sophie was making the case for Trump's recent "emergency" setting a precedent and you responded that the president doesn't have the power to suddenly tax. When I mentioned gold, it was just as an example of where-there's-a-will-there's-a-way, i.e. it wouldn't necessarily come in the form of a tax or be called a tax. I didn't mean the gold seizure itself as a sort of precedent that set things in motion.
Yes, but the point I was trying to make is that previous Presidents have done all kinds of obviously unconstitutional things, but Trump hasn't done anything like that, as far as I'm aware. Thus, I don't see his actions (so far) as contributing to that problem.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by boglerdude » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:18 pm

> I have no idea whether you were born in this country or how old you are. I was born in the mid-1960s. I can certainly say that the America I live in today is quite different from the one I grew up in. I don't think the changes are for the better.

You're about 10 years older than me. Describe what you've personally seen and how it compares to the mass media narratives =)
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:15 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am
jacksonM wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:41 am
What's wrong with this picture...

The screenshot is from Bing news. Here is the link to the actual story. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/price-of-i ... ive-years/. Do you think it was just a mistake or does any negative story just get a photo of Trump by default?

Image
I also noticed they used his "Douche-level-7" face rather than 8-10 (or 5-6 (he doesn't have a 1-4)).

Not only is he not even mentioned in the article, but the timeframe analyzed is 2012 thru 2016. Nothing of 2017 or 2018. No mention of republicans either.

Trump is a complete embarrassment of a human and President, but this isn't his baby.
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:55 am
I'd say it's a algo issue (I see stories with headline pics that don't make sense all the time), or else they're blaming it on Trump. No doubt the algo issue is a low priority-fix, since they're probably getting all kinds of clicks from people who assume it's going to bash Trump on his insulin-policy.

Or maybe they're taking a page from those paid clickbait links at the bottom of news stories. You know the ones: "NY State Drivers Should Read This!" and there's a picture of a hot chick seductively leaning on a barn or whatever.
Image

:D
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To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by stuper1 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:47 pm

That's a good one. And yet we'll have to put up with the same people preaching to us that Trump is an outrageous threat to free speech when he calls them "fake news". Anybody who believes anything fed to them by the mainstream media deserves everything they get.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:59 am

stuper1 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:47 pm
That's a good one. And yet we'll have to put up with the same people preaching to us that Trump is an outrageous threat to free speech when he calls them "fake news". Anybody who believes anything fed to them by the mainstream media deserves everything they get.
lol. What do they get?
The guy in the latest gold commercials pronounces it “goad.” They couldn’t find someone who pronounces the “L”?
I do identify with Fredo. My brother is the smart one.
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