Trump as tragicomedy

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Cortopassi
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:16 am

pugchief wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:16 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:19 pm
I'm serious. I listen to the following: Tom Hartmann, Rush, NBC, FOX, and CBS, in general, on TV and radio.
Why? That's like watching day to day market gyrations, trying to extrapolate the next direction and constantly changing your allocation as a result.

Go to https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/, pick a couple of sources from the 'least biased' category, and take your news from there.
I will look at that. I listen to both sides to create (hopefully) my own reasonably unbiased opinion.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by sophie » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:43 am

Well, do you really expect Trump to understand subtle nuances like the difference between an out and out fake news story, and a story that is essentially true but carefully spun and liberally sprinkled with opinion, created to support a specific agenda.

For the most part, the facts reported in written material from major news networks are true, but their stories are generally about a lot more than those facts. Sometimes you might not realize you're being manipulated, but there are plenty of examples done with all the subtlety of a jackhammer. I've come across several instances of articles from major news sources - including Fox and CNN - where the title strongly implies something that is absolutely contradicted by the facts in the article itself. Hilarious. The facts reported are true, but that doesn't matter to the people who only glanced at the title and didn't read deep enough into the article to detect the deception.

There's a Robert Heinlein novel that goes into some detail about subtle media manipulation - I think it was a novelette actually, about a religious dictatorship and a successful resistance movement. He even described it as a profession with a name attached - "psychometrician" or something like that. Scary stuff, and most prescient.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:13 am

sophie wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:43 am
There's a Robert Heinlein novel that goes into some detail about subtle media manipulation - I think it was a novelette actually, about a religious dictatorship and a successful resistance movement. He even described it as a profession with a name attached - "psychometrician" or something like that. Scary stuff, and most prescient.
It may be 'Farmer in the Sky'. Haven't read it, but I'm a huge fan of JOB: A Comedy of Justice.
Apparently, this psychometrician thing is real, though.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:17 am

There's no doubt I get manipulated, and I do it knowingly. I let myself get manipulated by Rush not that long ago, and I currently let myself get manipulated by This Week and Meet the Press.

But I do it willingly. I have seen enough, regardless of what good Trump accomplishes, that I hate his style. Substance might be good, style sucks.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by flyingpylon » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:25 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:17 am
I have seen enough, regardless of what good Trump accomplishes, that I hate his style. Substance might be good, style sucks.
I’m convinced that style is all that a large portion of America wants.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:48 pm

I want to hear technovelist say something he doesn't like about Trump, and it can't be something tricky like 'he's not Trumpy enough'. O0
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by jacksonM » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:39 pm

"Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure."

Thought about that quote from Lincoln in the Gettysburg address as I was reading an article about somebody who started a GoFundMe page to finance tunnels under "Trump's Border Wall".

Hopefully, with the current showdown going on between Trump and the democrats over funding for the wall we are still a long ways off from any kind of violent confrontation but who would have thought 10 or 20 years ago that the issue which could end up tearing us apart as a nation would be whether or not we are going to have open borders?

Maybe I'm being melodramatic but I'm really starting to wonder what America is going to look like in what's left of the rest of my life - about 20-30 years if I live to be 90-100 years old. I do hope the SS checks keep coming but thanks to the PP I have some gold coins stored away.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by technovelist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:54 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:19 pm
What is fake news media?

I'm serious. I listen to the following: Tom Hartmann, Rush, NBC, FOX, and CBS, in general, on TV and radio.

They all have their "bias" but out and out lying and being fake?

Case in point, today:

From Fox: House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi is spending the holidays vacationing in Hawaii, as a partial government shutdown grinds on with no resolution in sight.

From Wash Post: Trump retreats from public view as government shutdown continues over border wall fight

Different bias, both true. Both generate a mindset for and against.

Can you give me some examples of totally fake news from big outfits like NBC, ABC, CBS and FOX?
It took me 10 seconds to find this, in the Washington Post, no less.

"Following backlash, NBC News revises story about Trump’s ‘Christmastime’ visit to Iraq"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 97992e5af2

Read that article, then tell me if you need any more examples. I'm sure they will be just as difficult to find.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by technovelist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:01 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:48 pm
I want to hear technovelist say something he doesn't like about Trump, and it can't be something tricky like 'he's not Trumpy enough'. O0
Sure, that's easy.

I don't like his support for asset forfeiture.

I don't like the fact that he hasn't told the FDA to deschedule pot.

I don't like how many generals he has appointed to his cabinet.

Other than that, I can't think of much else offhand, but I could easily be overlooking something. Do you have anything specific you want to ask about?
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:05 pm

That's a sketchy piece of fake news, having to change Christmastime to on or before Christmas, but I'll give it to you. I think you can hopefully/probably find something more substantial to make your case.

I would say their bias caused them to run the story 7 hours before Christmas was officially over, assuming it would be true. I don't think it was intentionally fake news, but the trigger was pulled too early.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by technovelist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:25 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:05 pm
That's a sketchy piece of fake news, having to change Christmastime to on or before Christmas, but I'll give it to you. I think you can hopefully/probably find something more substantial to make your case.

I would say their bias caused them to run the story 7 hours before Christmas was officially over, assuming it would be true. I don't think it was intentionally fake news, but the trigger was pulled too early.
Ok, how about this then?

https://www.thewrap.com/wall-street-jou ... the-press/

I'd post the original article in the WSJ but they have a paywall.

Or this?
https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/201 ... ert-e-lee/

Or the numerous examples here, in article written shortly after the 2016 election?
http://thefederalist.com/2017/02/06/16- ... trump-won/

Or how about the worst fake news stories of 2018?
https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/22/wors ... -nbc-2018/
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:55 am

technovelist wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:01 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:48 pm
I want to hear technovelist say something he doesn't like about Trump, and it can't be something tricky like 'he's not Trumpy enough'. O0
Sure, that's easy.

I don't like his support for asset forfeiture.

I don't like the fact that he hasn't told the FDA to deschedule pot.

I don't like how many generals he has appointed to his cabinet.

Other than that, I can't think of much else offhand, but I could easily be overlooking something. Do you have anything specific you want to ask about?
That’s good, thank you!
Those are specific.
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