Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:17 pm
You couldn't make this up if you tried.
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You can't make up any of this. I'm sure many satirists are despondent due to being unable to match the craziness of the so-called "real world".
Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....
Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
Hard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.jacksonM wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pmTrump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....
Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
Trump is great for off the cuff stuff at rallies to rile people up, no doubt. But it is always with malice toward someone or something. Never uplifting as far as I can tell.jacksonM wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pmTrump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....
Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
I agree that there is likely a biased view in most media, and I should try to listen to a full speech.
I'd rather have a tooth pulled than listen to a whole speech by any president or politician and that includes Trump.moda0306 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:17 pmHard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.jacksonM wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pmTrump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....
Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.
Agreed to some extent. Again, it might be the bias of the media I am currently consuming, but Trump seems to be a very negative, put down kind of guy, vs. lift up. I've had both kinds of managers in my career and it's pretty easy for me to choose the type I like to work for.jacksonM wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:26 pmI'd rather have a tooth pulled than listen to a whole speech by any president or politician and that includes Trump.moda0306 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:17 pmHard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.
That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.
But my opinion from the soundbites is that Trump actually speaks somewhat like an ordinary person which I find refreshing.
Obama just spoke political gobbledygook and pablum and I always thought of him as the quintessential empty suit just mouthing nonsense to sound smart. Plus he was very condescending.
What would be your first choice as the next step (next pullout)?Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:42 pmI want us to pull out of every morass we are currently in.
This is a good start, but only a start.
Simonjester wrote: an interesting article on why trump operates the way he does.. https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... p_run.html
It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...
I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.flyingpylon wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 amIt might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...
From what you know, has Trump generally been a success or a failure as a businessman? Sure, he had a headstart by being born into a rich family. But a lot of people had a headstart like that and ended up with a lot less money than when they started. How much ahead of where he started is Trump versus yourself? I know he's far ahead of me. If you conclude that he's fairly successful as a businessman, do you think he achieved that by being a tyrant or by being a good boss? Do you ever wonder if the media might just have some sort of hidden agenda for wanting us all to think that he's just a tyrant?Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:49 amI will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.flyingpylon wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 amIt might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...
On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.
Indeed.Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:41 pmAfghanistan... but it looks like that's already in the works!dualstow wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:41 pmWhat would be your first choice as the next step (next pullout)?Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:42 pm
I want us to pull out of every morass we are currently in.
This is a good start, but only a start.
Things I've read about Woodward's accuracy and general approach in his books combined with your use of the word "assume" and now "imagine" are what raised red flags for me. I don't have any first-hand knowledge to confirm or deny any of the rest.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:49 amI will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.flyingpylon wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 amIt might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...
Are they writing his tweets for him? Sure seems like a tyrant to me, without any help from the media. Do I have to clip some tweets in this post?stuper1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:11 amFrom what you know, has Trump generally been a success or a failure as a businessman? Sure, he had a headstart by being born into a rich family. But a lot of people had a headstart like that and ended up with a lot less money than when they started. How much ahead of where he started is Trump versus yourself? I know he's far ahead of me. If you conclude that he's fairly successful as a businessman, do you think he achieved that by being a tyrant or by being a good boss? Do you ever wonder if the media might just have some sort of hidden agenda for wanting us all to think that he's just a tyrant?Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:49 amI will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.flyingpylon wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 am
It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.
On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.
And what I'm saying is that I really doubt that the environment he actually creates around him is much like what the media wants us to think it is. If it was how the media paints it, I seriously doubt he would be a successful businessman.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:45 pmAre they writing his tweets for him? Sure seems like a tyrant to me, without any help from the media. Do I have to clip some tweets in this post?stuper1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:11 amFrom what you know, has Trump generally been a success or a failure as a businessman? Sure, he had a headstart by being born into a rich family. But a lot of people had a headstart like that and ended up with a lot less money than when they started. How much ahead of where he started is Trump versus yourself? I know he's far ahead of me. If you conclude that he's fairly successful as a businessman, do you think he achieved that by being a tyrant or by being a good boss? Do you ever wonder if the media might just have some sort of hidden agenda for wanting us all to think that he's just a tyrant?Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:49 am
I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.
On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.
Sure, he's more successful in business, and he can go to his deathbed thinking about all the money he's made and the women he's bedded. That's not the stuff I'd be looking to reminisce on, on my deathbed.
All I can say is I would not function well in the environment that he seems to create around him.