Trump as tragicomedy

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pugchief
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by pugchief » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:51 am

Desert wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:27 am
On a happier note, I think we'll have much better candidates available to us in the next two elections. Choosing between Hillary and Trump was hopefully a low point in our country's path!
Assuming Trump isn't impeached, you are possibly looking at Trump vs Elizabeth Warren. That's even worse!
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Desert » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:42 am

pugchief wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:51 am
Desert wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:27 am
On a happier note, I think we'll have much better candidates available to us in the next two elections. Choosing between Hillary and Trump was hopefully a low point in our country's path!
Assuming Trump isn't impeached, you are possibly looking at Trump vs Elizabeth Warren. That's even worse!
My hope is that the Democrat field will be deep, and will include other more palatable choices. And I also hope that someone from the GOP will challenge Trump in the primary. I'd love to see Sasse vs Booker, for example. But there are plenty of other decent candidates out there as well.

Of course I'd vote for Warren if she was facing off against Trump. She's a decent person, and has done a lot of good things in the consumer protection area. Her latest bill isn't something I agree with, but it's not nearly as terrible as the hysteria suggests. I actually like the idea of employees having board representation in large public companies. There will always be conflict between the corporatism that inherently drives the wealth into the hands of the few, and the socialism that attempts to provide some safety nets. We don't want either extreme to win. I don't think we're in a terrible place right now, but we've had a long trend of increasing wealth concentration at the top that isn't sustainable. And just to be clear, nobody on this forum is at the top.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:51 am

Desert wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:27 am
Yeah, I have to admit that Trump hasn't caused as much damage as W did. But it's getting closer as the months go by. His constant attacks on the rule of law, the free press, and our alliances, along with kowtowing to despots, are degrading the foundations of our democracy at a faster rate than I foresaw. Fortunately, given the unprecedented level of scandal, I don't think he'll have enough time in office to create as much havoc as W did.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by pugchief » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:02 am

Desert wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:42 am
pugchief wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:51 am
Desert wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:27 am
On a happier note, I think we'll have much better candidates available to us in the next two elections. Choosing between Hillary and Trump was hopefully a low point in our country's path!
Assuming Trump isn't impeached, you are possibly looking at Trump vs Elizabeth Warren. That's even worse!
My hope is that the Democrat field will be deep, and will include other more palatable choices. And I also hope that someone from the GOP will challenge Trump in the primary. I'd love to see Sasse vs Booker, for example. But there are plenty of other decent candidates out there as well.

Of course I'd vote for Warren if she was facing off against Trump. She's a decent person, and has done a lot of good things in the consumer protection area. Her latest bill isn't something I agree with, but it's not nearly as terrible as the hysteria suggests. I actually like the idea of employees having board representation in large public companies. There will always be conflict between the corporatism that inherently drives the wealth into the hands of the few, and the socialism that attempts to provide some safety nets. We don't want either extreme to win. I don't think we're in a terrible place right now, but we've had a long trend of increasing wealth concentration at the top that isn't sustainable. And just to be clear, nobody on this forum is at the top.
When was the last time a sitting President who wished to run for a second term lost a primary?

And as for E Warren, she is probably more of a Socialist than Bernie. Is that really the direction you want this country to go? Socialism has failed in every country it has been tried in. How's life in Venezuela these days?
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by jhogue » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:43 am

When was the last time a sitting President who wished to run for a second term lost a primary?:

1.Taft lost a number of primaries to Teddy Roosevelt (and Robert LaFolette) in the campaign for the Republican nomination of 1912. The campaign was so bitter that TR walked out of the convention and ran as a independent. Taft and TR lost to Wilson in a 3-way race that inspired progressive measures like the income tax and the creation of the Federal Reserve. Not a good historical omen for present-day Republicans.

2. As for Elizabeth Warren's proposal to put labor representatives on corporate boards, it has been tried-- with mixed success at best-- in Europe. By law, Volkswagen has labor reps on its board, but that did nothing to stop the ongoing scandal known as "Dieselgate." That said, won't it be fun these next few years watching Pocahontas trying to "out-Bernie" Bernie Sanders?
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:06 pm

pugchief wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:58 pm
One of Bill Clinton's most famous quotes is, "it's the economy, stupid".
It was James Carville who coined that, not Bill Clinton.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by jhogue » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:25 pm

I believe that it was also James Carville who said: "You never know what you'll come up with if you drag a $100 bill through a trailer park." (referring to Paula Jones' successful lawsuit for sexual harassment against Bill Clinton).

There were also some other quotes attributed to him of an even earthier variety. I won't repeat them here, but if Hilary makes another run for the Presidency-- and I do not for a moment put it past her-- they are sure to make the rounds.
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A stock trader asked him, "Groucho, where do you put all your money?" Groucho was said to have replied, "In Treasury bonds", and the trader said, "You can't make much money on those." Groucho said, "You can if you have enough of them!"
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by pugchief » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:26 pm

Regardless of who said it, it's true. When people are employed, well paid and feeling flush (even if it's really just smoke and mirrors), they are loathe to mess that up by electing someone else to the top office. If however, as Peter Schiff has predicted, the economy melts down harder than in 2008 before the next presidential election, then all bets are off.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Kbg » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:52 pm

I don't think Trump has been too tough on the press. Honestly, whether the right or left press they are all pretty much non-credible with very little if any actual reporting done anymore. The modus operandi for all of them is fake rage, salacious headlines and a bunch of hired talking heads "representing" both sides. With any "news" published the reader knows before they even start reading what the spin is going to be.

There is a reason 50% of the population views "the other side's" news outlets as non-credible...what I find troubling is everyone is so biased that they can't see that both kettles are a very dark black.

At this current point in time (things could change this), I think an objective non-partisan could on good grounds conclude the following:

1. There is no serious evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians in any substantive way to influence the election. No doubt they were stupid and looking for dirt on Hillary. I think the the polite term is "opposition research." What we do also know conclusively is that Hillary topped Donald in paying for dirt in terms of its collection methods and the reporting produced.

2. Trump is basically a sleaze bag surrounded by sleazy people, and particularly if they are associates that were not foisted on him as part of the normal political spoils process (e.g. associates before the win, not after the win).
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by stuper1 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:55 pm

Kbg wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:52 pm
I don't think Trump has been too tough on the press. Honestly, whether the right or left press they are all pretty much non-credible with very little if any actual reporting done anymore. The modus operandi for all of them is fake rage, salacious headlines and a bunch of hired talking heads "representing" both sides. With any "news" published the reader knows before they even start reading what the spin is going to be.

There is a reason 50% of the population views "the other side's" news outlets as non-credible...what I find troubling is everyone is so biased that they can't see that both kettles are a very dark black.

At this current point in time (things could change this), I think an objective non-partisan could on good grounds conclude the following:

1. There is no serious evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians in any substantive way to influence the election. No doubt they were stupid and looking for dirt on Hillary. I think the the polite term is "opposition research." What we do also know conclusively is that Hillary topped Donald in paying for dirt in terms of its collection methods and the reporting produced.

2. Trump is basically a sleaze bag surrounded by sleazy people, and particularly if they are associates that were not foisted on him as part of the normal political spoils process (e.g. associates before the win, not after the win).
Very well stated. I agree with you 100%. I'm so sick of hearing people say that Trump is threatening the freedom of the press. Last time I checked there haven't been any death camps set up to receive journalists. The media just can't stand it when someone tells them that they are biased. Their heads explode because they can't stand the truth.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:07 am

So far, Trump’s talking about the press has been just that: talk. While referring to the press as “the enemy of the people” is disconcerting, and has echoes of the past, Trump hasn’t yet shut down a channel the way Putin has.

A recent poll shows that many Americans agree with that quote. Now that is troubling.
Biased? Yes, very. Enemy of the people? It needs to be improved, not silenced or taken over.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by pugchief » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:28 am

dualstow wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:07 am
So far, Trump’s talking about the press has been just that: talk. While referring to the press as “the enemy of the people” is disconcerting, and has echoes of the past, Trump hasn’t yet shut down a channel the way Putin has.

A recent poll shows that many Americans agree with that quote. Now that is troubling.
Biased? Yes, very. Enemy of the people? It needs to be improved, not silenced or taken over.
His description is overly dramatic, for sure, but he has every right to be pissed at the media. They twist every story, outright make stuff up, and try to undermine his every move. I don't know how else he could deal with it, but to just ignore it would be even worse, IMO.
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