Page 14 of 51

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:58 pm
by l82start
Maddy wrote:
dualstow wrote:Where is the best place to read about the so-called deep state?
This is a very interesting and eye-opening multi-chapter work that delves into the Deep State's intimate connections to Hollywood, the music industry, pedophilia, the military-industrial complex, the U.S. intelligence apparatus, the occult, psychedelic drugs, and the hippy movement.
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/

oooh i like that one, i read all the way through it a couple years ago, it was a strange and almost addictive read on the sixties and the counterculture... it put an entirely different spin on it for me as a post sixties child, it created a wonderful and healthy skepticism in me about a decade its music and culture that i was mostly just in awe of beforehand....

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:17 am
by dualstow
Maddy wrote:
dualstow wrote:Where is the best place to read about the so-called deep state?
This is a very interesting and eye-opening multi-chapter work that delves into the Deep State's intimate connections to Hollywood, the music industry, pedophilia, the military-industrial complex, the U.S. intelligence apparatus, the occult, psychedelic drugs, and the hippy movement.
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/
I started it. Thank you!

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:07 pm
by Maddy
As I skim this morning's news concerning the surfacing of FBI e-mails referring to an "insurance policy" addressed to the unlikely possibility of a Trump presidency, I'm thinking that you've got to be nuts to conclude that Trump has voluntarily allied himself with the Deep State. Who could possibly be targeted in this Stalinesque way and not become rabidly disenchanted with the establishment?

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:11 pm
by technovelist
Maddy wrote:As I skim this morning's news concerning the surfacing of FBI e-mails referring to an "insurance policy" addressed to the unlikely possibility of a Trump presidency, I'm thinking that you've got to be nuts to conclude that Trump has voluntarily allied himself with the Deep State. Who could possibly be targeted in this Stalinesque way and not become rabidly disenchanted with the establishment?
Right, but that's not all. This is the biggest governmental scandal in my lifetime.

And that includes Watergate.

Let's hope that Congress actually does their job for once.

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:14 am
by Maddy
I recently heard an excellent interview with Stephen Cohen, self-avowed liberal and professor emeritus of Russian studies at New York University and professor emeritus of politics at Princeton University. His view is that the recurring baseless accusations of treason against President Trump have become a serious national security threat by thwarting the effort toward diplomatic rapprochement and fueling a brewing international crisis comparable to the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962.

Those "progressives" who think Trump is the problem need a reality check and should give some serious thought to whose agenda they are, in reality, supporting.
"What he's being accused of is treason. This has never happened before in America, that there is a Russia agent in the White House. And we have a whole array of allegations from Putin helped him get in the White House, to his associates are doing wrong things with Russians."

"There is no evidence there was any wrongdoing, and indeed Flynn should have talked to the Russian ambassador. That was his job. This is beyond belief now... This has become a national security threat to us in and of itself,"he explained.

"Two motives have driven this false narrative about Trump, that he is somehow a Kremlin agent. There have been two forces. One is the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party, which doesn't want to admit she lost the election... and that may be because she wants to run again.... At the same time, there has long been in Washington, let's call it the fourth branch of government -- the intelligence services, who have opposed any rapprochement or cooperation with Russia."

"Remember, in 2016, President Obama worked out a deal with Russian president Vladimir Putin, for military cooperation in Syria. He said he was going to share intelligence with Russia, the way Trump and the Russians were supposed to do the other day. Our Department of Defense said they wouldn't share intelligence, and a few days later, they killed Syrian soldiers ["by accident"] violating the agreement, and that was that," he explained.

"So we can ask: Who is making our foreign policy in Washington today?"

Host Tucker Carlson presses him to explain and Cohen says: "You and I have to ask a subversive question. Are there really three branches of government. Or is there a fourth branch of government? These intel services? What we know for a fact, Obama tried not very hard, but he tried for a military alliance with Putin in Syria against terrorism, but it was sabotaged by the Department of Defense and its allies in the intelligence services. Trump sais on the campaign trail, 'Wouldn't it be great to cooperate with Russia?' My answer is, it would be great. And Trump wants that to happen, but he is being thwarted. Every time he gets close, we get a new leak of a story."
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... today.html

Related video interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhkzF0npUnc

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:21 am
by moda0306
Maddy wrote:I recently heard an excellent interview with Stephen Cohen, self-avowed liberal and professor emeritus of Russian studies at New York University and professor emeritus of politics at Princeton University. His view is that the recurring baseless accusations of treason against President Trump have become a serious security threat to the United States by obstructing the effort toward diplomatic rapprochement and fueling an international crisis of monumental proportion.

Those "progressives" who think Trump is the problem need a reality check and should give some thought to whose agenda they are, in reality, supporting.
"What he's being accused of is treason. This has never happened before in America, that there is a Russia agent in the White House. And we have a whole array of allegations from Putin helped him get in the White House, to his associates are doing wrong things with Russians."

"There is no evidence there was any wrongdoing, and indeed Flynn should have talked to the Russian ambassador. That was his job. This is beyond belief now... This has become a national security threat to us in and of itself,"he explained.

"Two motives have driven this false narrative about Trump, that he is somehow a Kremlin agent. There have been two forces. One is the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party, which doesn't want to admit she lost the election... and that may be because she wants to run again.... At the same time, there has long been in Washington, let's call it the fourth branch of government -- the intelligence services, who have opposed any rapprochement or cooperation with Russia."

"Remember, in 2016, President Obama worked out a deal with Russian president Vladimir Putin, for military cooperation in Syria. He said he was going to share intelligence with Russia, the way Trump and the Russians were supposed to do the other day. Our Department of Defense said they wouldn't share intelligence, and a few days later, they killed Syrian soldiers ["by accident"] violating the agreement, and that was that," he explained.

"So we can ask: Who is making our foreign policy in Washington today?"

Host Tucker Carlson presses him to explain and Cohen says: "You and I have to ask a subversive question. Are there really three branches of government. Or is there a fourth branch of government? These intel services? What we know for a fact, Obama tried not very hard, but he tried for a military alliance with Putin in Syria against terrorism, but it was sabotaged by the Department of Defense and its allies in the intelligence services. Trump sais on the campaign trail, 'Wouldn't it be great to cooperate with Russia?' My answer is, it would be great. And Trump wants that to happen, but he is being thwarted. Every time he gets close, we get a new leak of a story."
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... today.html
"Libs" that support the ilk of Hillary are surely in many forms a threat insofar the establishment dems are a threat to our liberty and security.

But that doesn't mean that all the areas outside of Russia that people are extremely weary of Trump aren't warranted. While we're worrying about Trump/Russia relations, Trump might ignite a war with North Korea. There are lots of threats in the establishment, and lots of idiots outside of it.

Trump is certainly not THE problem... but to think that he's not A problem is ridiculous. Nobody that impulsive, unable to articulate a coherent thought, and willing to employ violence can be written off as leader of the largest killing force in the world.

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:22 am
by moda0306
By the way, I'd highly suggest listening to the most recent episode of "Intercepted." Jeremy Scahill is excellent at disassembling garbage establishment arguments and media malfeasance without being Trump's c*ck-holster.

https://theintercept.com/podcasts/

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:25 am
by moda0306
Other great sources on this stuff are the Scott Horton podcast, Glenn Greenwald, Tom Nichols, and some others I'm blanking on right now. None are Russia alarmists, and strike the right balance between condemning Trump for being the buffoon he clearly is, but not ever letting the establishment dems/media/"progressives" off of the hook.

I'm pretty sure Scott Horton is an "Anarcho-Capitalist"... so I'd be curious what tech has to say about his opinion on Trump's foreign policy to-date.

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:58 am
by Maddy
moda0306 wrote: While we're worrying about Trump/Russia relations, Trump might ignite a war with North Korea.
Moda, I don't follow you when it comes to North Korea. What has changed, in your view, to make North Korea a greater threat to the world than before the inception of the Trump presidency?

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:12 am
by moda0306
Maddy wrote:
moda0306 wrote: While we're worrying about Trump/Russia relations, Trump might ignite a war with North Korea.
Moda, I don't follow you when it comes to North Korea. What has changed, in your view, to make North Korea a greater threat to the world than before the inception of the Trump presidency?
I don't know if they are a greater threat. Trump's threats to them may or may not be advisable, however. Scott Horton is really good to listen to on the topic of North Korea.

Obviously, words one says is only one part of what we can see, while there is a ton we don't see. By all means, perhaps behind closed doors Trump is making "great deals." I'd love to see actual evidence of that.

And they're not the only threat. So are we. A nuke dropped on N. Korea could cause a cascade of utter disasters, even if they don't get a shot off.

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:20 pm
by Benko
Who really expects us to nuke anyone? Seriously?

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:35 pm
by moda0306
Benko wrote:Who really expects us to nuke anyone? Seriously?
On what basis do you think we wouldn't? We have before. We've made threats and had contingencies that have left us within inches of nuclear war with Russia. We have a president with the composure of a cocky, uneducated 12 year old bully who's said we "must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability."

But let's pare it waaaay back. Even a conventional war without nukes would be an absolute disaster for the region from what I've heard from many different sources (they might all be full of it... but I've actively tried to find smart people on these potentially larger geopolitical issues. I'm more than open to exploring more hawkish ones, if you recommend any).

The U.S. has done a massive amount of damage in Japan, Korea, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam killing millions of people with conventional bombs & non-nuclear attacks.