moda0306 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 4:11 pmEverything you said about teams and convenient flip-flops of narratives is spot-on. The conclusion is "Trump is pretty great stuff" or "Trump isn't that bad but 'the left' is terrible." Whatever logic you have to use (temporarily, of course) to get there is valid.Desert wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 3:11 pmThanks Maddy, your post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I don't know your political history, but no Republican would have ever said anything like this just a few short years ago. This was the left/Democrat message; Only strong, socialist governments could contain the capitalist/corporate machine.Maddy wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 1:54 pmWell, Putin is not only a strong leader (the Russian people LOVE strong leaders), but he's the epitome of a strong, NATIONALISTIC leader. And, more to the point, he's the only significant force pushing back against the western corporate oligarchy as it marches forward in its quest for western hegemony in the middle east and Africa. IMHO, the teams are going to line up for or against Putin accordingly.
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, I'm just saying the parties have flipped positions here. Maybe that's not interesting to anyone else, but I find it fascinating to watch. It demonstrates the "sports fan" mentality of many voters. They'll switch positions entirely, as long as that position is one that is being put forward by their "team."
And moda, yes, I understand that politics is largely theater. Trump has taken the theater to a whole new level, which isn't surprising, since he's a lifelong showman. And WWE works in the U.S., because we love to be entertained, even if we know it's fake.
I wasn't an avid anti-deep-state civil-libertarian until about 2015-2016 or so when I started expanding my political influences to folks like Chomsky/Greenwald and other anti-war folks. Dan Carlin gets the credit for starting to crack my shell a bit with some historical perspective. I NEVER heard Republicans talking about the "deep state" or pro-Russia then. I had a conversation with a guy (who's a huge Trumper today) shortly after the Obama debate with Romney where Romney declared Russia our largest threat, and my friend was somehow remarkably of a very similar opinion to Romney. He's completely changed his tune. And of course there's no fundamentals behind it nor admitting he ever believed any different... otherwise I'd give him credit for changing his mind rather than roll my eyes.
Meanwhile, "the left," since it had forgotten its antiwar sentiment to a large degree, was going to side with Obama's argument because they trusted him with power and identified with the guy.
But while "the right" wants to talk about the "deep state" because it makes them feel rebellious and all but the sliver-sized Ron/Rand wing of the right cares anything about disassembling the perma-war surveillance state (aka, the deep state). They just want to use it in different ways than certain elements "the establishment," and of course the theater is part of the act.
I feel like we're fighting a culture-war in disguise... and it's based on very odd virtue-signalling around race, culture, guns, and rural vs urban locales trying to pretend to be a political debate on fundamentals. It's sad and disappointing to see. Of course, I'm far more disappointed right now in my conservative friends than my liberal ones, but if/when liberals put up Flava Flav as their candidate I'll be sure to roast them as well. I hope you'll be there to join me.
Republicans used to not worry or talk about the Deep State, but that was because we were lied to from top to bottom from Bush 41 through Obama.
The Deep State is an insidious scourge that has dominated both parties for the at least 40 years (probably much longer than that, considering they likely killed JFK).
The fact is the Deep State has infiltrated virtually all levels of the Federal government and was orchestrating nearly complete control. They would let the D's and R's fight it out in public, but control the votes more or less on the major issues. Obviously they have a globalist/Neo-Con/Neo-Dem agenda.
I would say that Trump may be closer to a blue dog Dem than virtually any Dem of any relevance today. It's hard to distinguish between Bush 41, Bush 43 and Obama. For the most part they are the same person, minus the last name.
I think myself, like a lot of Trump voters feel that we were betrayed and lied to since at least 1988 when the pro-American Republican platform essentially died.