Indeed it is. And he had first-hand experience in that subject.stuper1 wrote:Just for fun, I quickly looked up the military spending for 2016 for the US and Russia. One was at $69 billion and the other at $611 billion. I'm pretty sure everybody knows which country has the larger budget.
An old but good book on the subject: War Is A Racket, by Major General Smedley Butler.
Trump as tragicomedy
Moderator: Global Moderator
-
- Executive Member
- Posts: 5994
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Right, and all this Trump-Russia hysteria is just more of the same racket, along with trying to bring down a duly elected president as you mentioned. It would seem to me that the military-industrial complex doesn't think Trump will be sufficiently hawkish to enable them to meet their growth targets.
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
I agree. If you go back through the last half-century of history, a clear pattern emerges. In one form or another, some boogy-man gets trotted out on cue with the purpose of distracting the masses and of instilling such fear, uncertainty, and/or disdain for the manufactured enemy that the people will line up in support of whatever course of action the oligarchy is proposing to protect them--whether it be war, martial law, bank bail-outs, or something else.Libertarian666 wrote:That's just the surface. Underneath they are frightened that he is going to dismantle the deep state.stuper1 wrote:Right, and all this Trump-Russia hysteria is just more of the same racket, along with trying to bring down a duly elected president as you mentioned. It would seem to me that the military-industrial complex doesn't think Trump will be sufficiently hawkish to enable them to meet their growth targets.
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
North Korea may be the real deal, and I don't blame Trump for being hawkish toward Kim Jong Un, but seriously, do we really think that KJU is going to nuke one American city and give up his stranglehold on power in NK?Simonjester wrote:the trump hawkishness toward N Korea gives me reason to doubt the MIC deep state is really worried about trump. the regulatory deep state and the political establishment corruption/pervert deep state seem to have more to worry about... and thats a good thing even if it doesn't strike at the heart of this countries deep state problems..Maddy wrote:I agree. If you go back through the last half-century of history, a clear pattern emerges. In one form or another, some boogy-man gets trotted out on cue (N Korea) with the purpose of distracting the masses and of instilling such fear, uncertainty, and/or disdain for the manufactured enemy that the people will line up in support of whatever course of action the oligarchy is proposing to protect them--whether it be war, martial law, bank bail-outs, or something else.Libertarian666 wrote:That's just the surface. Underneath they are frightened that he is going to dismantle the deep state.stuper1 wrote:Right, and all this Trump-Russia hysteria is just more of the same racket, along with trying to bring down a duly elected president as you mentioned. It would seem to me that the military-industrial complex doesn't think Trump will be sufficiently hawkish to enable them to meet their growth targets.
He probably just wants to have a bargaining chip so he doesn't get offed like Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi. Who can blame him for that? Of course, he deserves a lot of blame for starving his own people, but unless we plan to go in and supposedly establish democracy there, there's not a whole lot we can do about that. Look how well that plan worked out in Iraq.
In my humble opinion, the biggest acute threat to US security by far is that Islamic terrorists get ahold of a nuclear weapon and detonate it in a large US city. I hope and pray that our people are much more focused on trying to stop that than worrying about Russia or North Korea attacking us. We should definitely be working with Russia to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists, because Russia has the same concern.
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Islamic terrorists would be buying it from North Korea, very likely. In exchange for a pallet loaded with gold.stuper1 wrote:In my humble opinion, the biggest acute threat to US security by far is that Islamic terrorists get ahold of a nuclear weapon and detonate it in a large US city. I hope and pray that our people are much more focused on trying to stop that than worrying about Russia or North Korea attacking us. We should definitely be working with Russia to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists, because Russia has the same concern.
Simonjester wrote: or from N Korea by way of Iran for a pallet load of cash that they got from ...somewhere...
- Kriegsspiel
- Executive Member
- Posts: 4052
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
A lot of US military spending is wasted (Smedley would agree, I think), whereas the Russian budget is more constrained and wisely spent. The Russians have good electronic warfare capabilities, and good psyops and information operations. They also have a lot of organized crime and computer geeks. Software, like bombs, can damage nuclear plants, electrical grids, corporations, government agencies. Basically, warfare probably won't look like it has in the past. So that's why I think it's naive to think Russia has laughable capabilities.stuper1 wrote:Both. What is their annual budget for military spending versus ours? Of course, they still have nuclear weapons, and so do we. Mutually Assured Destruction still applies.Kriegsspiel wrote:In capability, or intent?stuper1 wrote:The whole idea that Russia is a credible threat to the U.S. is laughable on its face, and thus it seems obvious to me that it's just another bogeyman manufactured by the establishment media on behalf of the military-industrial complex.
Seems like a curious statement, regardless.
LOL, yes. They wouldn't charge into our teeth like retards. Russia is not capable of invading and occupying the US like they did with Crimea, and they certainly don't want to. If their intent is to damage the US, there are tactics with much lower risk and higher upside to employ. I think this is what you meant by "tinkering around the edges," but where our opinions differ is that I think the "tinkering" stuff has become powerful enough to be a viable tactic in its own right. Talking, again, about psyops, hacking/sabotage, special operations.Regarding intent, are we seriously afraid that Putin is going to invade America? It's just laughable.
Of course, they are tinkering around the edges to try to get an advantage militarily and/or economically, but we do the same to them, and every other major country in the world does it too, even to their allies.
We might just be talking past each other in what our definitions of "threats" are.
It seems like you are still thinking like a Cold Warrior, wrt budgets, nuclear weapons.The Cold War is over. We aren't fighting the specter of worldwide Communism anymore, although even that was mainly just a pretense.
Americans had a lot in common with Germany and Italy in the 1940s too I think we'd both agree that the US and Russia have common enemies (Islamists) that we could work together against.We actually have a lot in common culturally with Russia. There is no reason for us to be in conflict with them.
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
There was no need for a war with Germany and Italy in the 1940s either. War is a racket.Kriegsspiel wrote: Americans had a lot in common with Germany and Italy in the 1940s too
-
- Executive Member
- Posts: 5994
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Correct.stuper1 wrote:There was no need for a war with Germany and Italy in the 1940s either. War is a racket.Kriegsspiel wrote: Americans had a lot in common with Germany and Italy in the 1940s too
- dualstow
- Executive Member
- Posts: 14232
- Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
- Location: synagogue of Satan
- Contact:
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
So no Red Dawn?kriegsspiel wrote:LOL, yes. They wouldn't charge into our teeth like retards. Russia is not capable of invading and occupying the US like they did with Crimea
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
- Kriegsspiel
- Executive Member
- Posts: 4052
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
It gets a Kriegsspielian "unlikely" rating
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Further to Moda's request for a "source" establishing the absence of evidence sufficient to initiate an investigation, the following testimony provided by FBI Director Christopher Wray at a House Judiciary Committee hearing yesterday would seem to pretty much settle the issue:
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/su ... ump-russiaTwo simple questions: How did the FBI's Russia investigation start? And was it started because the Trump "dossier" was presented to somebody at the FBI?
Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) asked FBI director Christopher Wray those questions at a hearing of the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday, but he got no answers:
"How did the Russia investigation start?" DeSantis asked Wray. "Did (FBI counterintelligence agent)Peter Strzok -- was he -- did he start it?"
Wray answered, "I'm not aware of who started the investigation within the FBI."
DeSantis followed up: "Was it started because the dossier was presented to somebody in the FBI?"
"I don't have the answer to that question," Wray said.
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
I'd bet decent money that he refused to answer the questions because he doesn't want to undercut the OIG report due to drop any day now that will tear it all down. Lots of recent anti-investigation news (FBI demotions, Strzok entanglements, judge recusals, etc) are probably direct results of early blowback from that report.Libertarian666 wrote: Wray is either lying or totally incompetent.
Either way, he must be fired.
- Kriegsspiel
- Executive Member
- Posts: 4052
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
But if everyone in government who was incompetent or a liar was fired then there wouldnOH NOW I SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THISLibertarian666 wrote:Wray is either lying or totally incompetent.Maddy wrote:Further to Moda's request for a "source" establishing the absence of evidence sufficient to initiate an investigation, the following testimony provided by FBI Director Christopher Wray at a House Judiciary Committee hearing yesterday would seem to pretty much settle the issue:
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/su ... ump-russiaTwo simple questions: How did the FBI's Russia investigation start? And was it started because the Trump "dossier" was presented to somebody at the FBI?
Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) asked FBI director Christopher Wray those questions at a hearing of the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday, but he got no answers:
"How did the Russia investigation start?" DeSantis asked Wray. "Did (FBI counterintelligence agent)Peter Strzok -- was he -- did he start it?"
Wray answered, "I'm not aware of who started the investigation within the FBI."
DeSantis followed up: "Was it started because the dossier was presented to somebody in the FBI?"
"I don't have the answer to that question," Wray said.
Either way, he must be fired.
But we know the answer to this question, don't we?
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Trump has no problem with the CIA, permanent war, gangster global capitalism, etc, as long as it's doing what he sees as being "in our interests" as they murder, torture, lie, steal, and secretly manipulate the public. He just wants to use these tools for less globalist aims. He's no enemy of the deep state. He just wants to use its power somewhat differently.
What we are witnessing, at worst, is two wings of the permawar surveillance state engage in quasi-espionage against each other. What we are witnessing is our corrupt justice system actuall turning against power rather than doing its bidding.
So in that context I won't lose one ounce of sleep for a neofascist police statist at the head of the executive branch when the corrupt justice he wants dealt to poor brown people gets turned on him.
That said, I'm more than willing to simultaneously call for the indictment of any other powerful folks engaging in illegal activity on-behalf. Hillary Clinton... CNN... Faux Newd... James Clapper... Other individuals and institutions who act illegally or immorally towards the public they're supposed to serve, can rot with the rapey slimeball Trump.
But if the globalist wing of the deep state wants to go to engage a secret "war" with the jingo wing, I'm more than happy to watch. Trump is simply an imperialist war-monger of a different flavor.
What we are witnessing, at worst, is two wings of the permawar surveillance state engage in quasi-espionage against each other. What we are witnessing is our corrupt justice system actuall turning against power rather than doing its bidding.
So in that context I won't lose one ounce of sleep for a neofascist police statist at the head of the executive branch when the corrupt justice he wants dealt to poor brown people gets turned on him.
That said, I'm more than willing to simultaneously call for the indictment of any other powerful folks engaging in illegal activity on-behalf. Hillary Clinton... CNN... Faux Newd... James Clapper... Other individuals and institutions who act illegally or immorally towards the public they're supposed to serve, can rot with the rapey slimeball Trump.
But if the globalist wing of the deep state wants to go to engage a secret "war" with the jingo wing, I'm more than happy to watch. Trump is simply an imperialist war-monger of a different flavor.
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
I'd be surprised if Trump fully understands, at this point, what the deep state is and what its objectives are. No doubt his learning curve has been steep, but he's had neither the time nor the experience to know what's really at stake, who's really running the show, and little information or control he has over anything. It may be that the oligarchy will, in the end, play him like a fiddle (as they have every president in recent history), but I think it's too early to brand him one way or another.moda0306 wrote:Trump has no problem with the CIA, permanent war, gangster global capitalism, etc, as long as it's doing what he sees as being "in our interests" as they murder, torture, lie, steal, and secretly manipulate the public. He just wants to use these tools for less globalist aims. He's no enemy of the deep state. He just wants to use its power somewhat differently.
- Kriegsspiel
- Executive Member
- Posts: 4052
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
I think he's gonna need to start a war or something to join that club.Libertarian666 wrote:I think he understands exactly what the deep state is and what its objectives are.Maddy wrote:I'd be surprised if Trump fully understands, at this point, what the deep state is and what its objectives are. No doubt his learning curve has been steep, but he's had neither the time nor the experience to know what's really at stake, who's really running the show, and little information or control he has over anything. It may be that the oligarchy will, in the end, play him like a fiddle (as they have every president in recent history), but I think it's too early to brand him one way or another.moda0306 wrote:Trump has no problem with the CIA, permanent war, gangster global capitalism, etc, as long as it's doing what he sees as being "in our interests" as they murder, torture, lie, steal, and secretly manipulate the public. He just wants to use these tools for less globalist aims. He's no enemy of the deep state. He just wants to use its power somewhat differently.
If he can stay alive and avoid being railroaded out of office I believe he will go down as a great President.
- Kriegsspiel
- Executive Member
- Posts: 4052
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Ok, maybe just win one.
Though I don't think anyone really wins wars anymore*.
*For instance
Iraq Prime Minister Declares Victory Over ISIS
"Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi of Iraq declared victory over the Islamic State on Saturday, announcing the end of more than three years of battles to regain control over nearly one-third of the country that had been under the terrorist group’s dominion...
Hours before Mr. Abadi’s speech, a bomb suspected of being planted by insurgents exploded in the center of Tikrit"
Though I don't think anyone really wins wars anymore*.
*For instance
Iraq Prime Minister Declares Victory Over ISIS
"Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi of Iraq declared victory over the Islamic State on Saturday, announcing the end of more than three years of battles to regain control over nearly one-third of the country that had been under the terrorist group’s dominion...
Hours before Mr. Abadi’s speech, a bomb suspected of being planted by insurgents exploded in the center of Tikrit"
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Trump has vociferously advocated for torture, imperialistic war and theft, murdering family-members of alleged "terrorists," and an expanded police state.
I'd love to see tech's evidence that he's any sort of reliable threat to the deep state.
But I know we won't get it.
I'd love to see tech's evidence that he's any sort of reliable threat to the deep state.
But I know we won't get it.
-
- Executive Member
- Posts: 1102
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:04 am
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Or maybe he’s just “pacing and leading” on some or all of those issues.moda0306 wrote:Trump has vociferously advocated for torture, imperialistic war and theft, murdering family-members of alleged "terrorists," and an expanded police state.
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Advocated for=words. What has actually changed/been done on the basis of those words?moda0306 wrote:Trump has vociferously advocated for torture, imperialistic war and theft, murdering family-members of alleged "terrorists," and an expanded police state.
I'd love to see tech's evidence that he's any sort of reliable threat to the deep state.
But I know we won't get it.
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
In today's headlines, the Pentagon has made known its intent to defy President Trump with regard to his ban on transgenders in the military. So you tell me: Who's actually in charge, and what reason is there to believe that the Pentagon isn't establishing US foreign policy as well?
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
The deep state is all too much in charge in many areas.Simonjester wrote: in all fairness candidate trump did "vociferously advocated for torture, imperialistic war and theft, murdering family-members of alleged "terrorists," and an expanded police state." i don't recall president trump advocating or following through on any of this hyperbolic election nuttery at all. this is certainly in keeping with how heat of the campaign bloviating is forgotten by most/all candidates... he has however(against all political norms) managed to follow through on some of his legitimate campaign promises which is an unorthodox precedent that i am happy to see set...
If Trump were more ruthless and authoritarian as people think, he would have fired Comey day 1, cleaned house as fast as possible and the country would have been better off.
- Cortopassi
- Executive Member
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
- Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
How much of the last minute stuff was done by Obama just in order to potentially mess with Trump were he to win?
***Transgendered people -- June 2016, 8 years into his presidency, is when Obama decided to allow them? Why not earlier?
-- Section 1. Policy. (a) Until June 2016, the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) (collectively, the Departments) generally prohibited openly transgender individuals from accession into the United States military and authorized the discharge of such individuals. Shortly before President Obama left office, however, his Administration dismantled the Departments' established framework by permitting transgender individuals to serve openly in the military, authorizing the use of the Departments' resources to fund sex-reassignment surgical procedures, and permitting accession of such individuals after July 1, 2017. The Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of Homeland Security have since extended the deadline to alter the currently effective accession policy to January 1, 2018, while the Departments continue to study the issue.
***Utah Bears Ears, in December 2016??:
Obama, as expected, named 1.35 million acres of federal land as the Bears Ears National Monument in late December, just a month before leaving office. Tribes and environmentalists celebrated, but Utah officials were angry.
***Jerusalem, seems every president in the past 25 years ran on this but then pulled back, but Trump finally pulled the trigger?
------------------------
My head is spinning. Last month I was 100% anti-Trump, after voting for him. I am now starting to reverse that position....
until 25 more women come out and accuse him of sexual misconduct....
Yes, my head is spinning.
***Transgendered people -- June 2016, 8 years into his presidency, is when Obama decided to allow them? Why not earlier?
-- Section 1. Policy. (a) Until June 2016, the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) (collectively, the Departments) generally prohibited openly transgender individuals from accession into the United States military and authorized the discharge of such individuals. Shortly before President Obama left office, however, his Administration dismantled the Departments' established framework by permitting transgender individuals to serve openly in the military, authorizing the use of the Departments' resources to fund sex-reassignment surgical procedures, and permitting accession of such individuals after July 1, 2017. The Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of Homeland Security have since extended the deadline to alter the currently effective accession policy to January 1, 2018, while the Departments continue to study the issue.
***Utah Bears Ears, in December 2016??:
Obama, as expected, named 1.35 million acres of federal land as the Bears Ears National Monument in late December, just a month before leaving office. Tribes and environmentalists celebrated, but Utah officials were angry.
***Jerusalem, seems every president in the past 25 years ran on this but then pulled back, but Trump finally pulled the trigger?
------------------------
My head is spinning. Last month I was 100% anti-Trump, after voting for him. I am now starting to reverse that position....
until 25 more women come out and accuse him of sexual misconduct....
Yes, my head is spinning.
- dualstow
- Executive Member
- Posts: 14232
- Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
- Location: synagogue of Satan
- Contact:
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
Where is the best place to read about the so-called deep state?
Simonjester wrote: between the lines.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
Re: Trump as tragicomedy
This is a very interesting and eye-opening multi-chapter work that delves into the Deep State's intimate connections to Hollywood, the music industry, pedophilia, the military-industrial complex, the U.S. intelligence apparatus, the occult, psychedelic drugs, and the hippy movement.dualstow wrote:Where is the best place to read about the so-called deep state?
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/