Trump as tragicomedy

[Kriegsspiel]

Thanks. As for being gaga for Trump, he wasn't my first choice of the 19 candidates in 2016. That would be Rand Paul.

I thought when the market tanked he'd be cranking up wars... not winding them down. Kudos to him for that.

"My friend Lindsay Graham is a bit mad right now. You see, he’s never seen a war end before. He’s going to have to console himself with the fact that we still are in about 8 more. I have to tell you; I haven’t seen a Senator who loves war this much since the Star Wars Prequels,"
- Rand Paul airing his Festivus grievances

[jacksonM]

That said I'm happy to see the wars ending and the criminal justice reform bill that was passed. I thought when the market tanked he'd be cranking up wars... not winding them down. Kudos to him for that.

If Trump succeeds in taking on the Military Industrial Complex and transforming what Pat Buchanan calls "The War Party" into a party committed to non-interventionism that would be no small feat, would it not?

Now, pray tell, who is going to do that for the Democratic party? They have been showing their true colors as just another branch of the The War Party since Trump announced the policy of middle east withdrawal.

[jacksonM]

Thanks. As for being gaga for Trump, he wasn't my first choice of the 19 candidates in 2016. That would be Rand Paul.

I thought when the market tanked he'd be cranking up wars... not winding them down. Kudos to him for that.

"My friend Lindsay Graham is a bit mad right now. You see, he’s never seen a war end before. He’s going to have to console himself with the fact that we still are in about 8 more. I have to tell you; I haven’t seen a Senator who loves war this much since the Star Wars Prequels,"
- Rand Paul airing his Festivus grievances

Well, Mr. Graham is only 6 years younger than me so I'm sure he has seen a war end before. If not, he can watch the last episode of the Ken Burns Vietnam War documentary on Netflix to see how nearly 20 years of effort succeeded in accomplishing nothing but making a bad situation orders of magnitude worse than it would have been if we had simply minded our own business.

Interesting that you say we are still in "about 8 more" wars. Does anybody really know how many - either where we have boots on the ground or are clandestinely working hard to light a match to a tinder pile?

[Kbg]

That said I'm happy to see the wars ending and the criminal justice reform bill that was passed. I thought when the market tanked he'd be cranking up wars... not winding them down. Kudos to him for that.

If Trump succeeds in taking on the Military Industrial Complex and transforming what Pat Buchanan calls "The War Party" into a party committed to non-interventionism that would be no small feat, would it not?

Now, pray tell, who is going to do that for the Democratic party? They have been showing their true colors as just another branch of the The War Party since Trump announced the policy of middle east withdrawal.

As a near lifetime member of the military industrial complex, we need to bring back the draft. I think the vast majority of American's could care less about foreign policy and foreign wars unless it affects them personally. The whole thing has been "outsourced" to the all volunteer military and has created a disengaged citizenry when it comes to this stuff who will not check their government's stupidity. It wasn't always like this (but then again the Legislative Branch wasn't always like this either.). I am beyond baffled why anyone thinks it's a good idea to be in Afghanistan 18 and the Iraqish area 15 years later.

[Cortopassi]

That said I'm happy to see the wars ending and the criminal justice reform bill that was passed. I thought when the market tanked he'd be cranking up wars... not winding them down. Kudos to him for that.

If Trump succeeds in taking on the Military Industrial Complex and transforming what Pat Buchanan calls "The War Party" into a party committed to non-interventionism that would be no small feat, would it not?

Now, pray tell, who is going to do that for the Democratic party? They have been showing their true colors as just another branch of the The War Party since Trump announced the policy of middle east withdrawal.

As a near lifetime member of the military industrial complex, we need to bring back the draft. I think the vast majority of American's could care less about foreign policy and foreign wars unless it affects them personally. The whole thing has been "outsourced" to the all volunteer military and has created a disengaged citizenry when it comes to this stuff who will not check their government's stupidity. It wasn't always like this (but then again the Legislative Branch wasn't always like this either.). I am beyond baffled why anyone thinks it's a good idea to be in Afghanistan 18 and the Iraqish area 15 years later.

I agree. Being way beyond draft age, I vividly recall how scared I was filling out that selective service card (~1985) and that I would be somehow drafted. I would have become seriously engaged in any anti-whatever-war effort if my ass was on the line.

[Kriegsspiel]

Thanks. As for being gaga for Trump, he wasn't my first choice of the 19 candidates in 2016. That would be Rand Paul.

I thought when the market tanked he'd be cranking up wars... not winding them down. Kudos to him for that.

"My friend Lindsay Graham is a bit mad right now. You see, he’s never seen a war end before. He’s going to have to console himself with the fact that we still are in about 8 more. I have to tell you; I haven’t seen a Senator who loves war this much since the Star Wars Prequels,"
- Rand Paul airing his Festivus grievances

Well, Mr. Graham is only 6 years younger than me so I'm sure he has seen a war end before. If not, he can watch the last episode of the Ken Burns Vietnam War documentary on Netflix to see how nearly 20 years of effort succeeded in accomplishing nothing but making a bad situation orders of magnitude worse than it would have been if we had simply minded our own business.

Interesting that you say we are still in "about 8 more" wars. Does anybody really know how many - either where we have boots on the ground or are clandestinely working hard to light a match to a tinder pile?

It was a facetious.

[jacksonM]

"My friend Lindsay Graham is a bit mad right now. You see, he’s never seen a war end before. He’s going to have to console himself with the fact that we still are in about 8 more. I have to tell you; I haven’t seen a Senator who loves war this much since the Star Wars Prequels,"
- Rand Paul airing his Festivus grievances

Well, Mr. Graham is only 6 years younger than me so I'm sure he has seen a war end before. If not, he can watch the last episode of the Ken Burns Vietnam War documentary on Netflix to see how nearly 20 years of effort succeeded in accomplishing nothing but making a bad situation orders of magnitude worse than it would have been if we had simply minded our own business.

Interesting that you say we are still in "about 8 more" wars. Does anybody really know how many - either where we have boots on the ground or are clandestinely working hard to light a match to a tinder pile?

It was a facetious.

Yes, I realized that. Merry Christmas.

[dualstow]

Hard to read "match" and "tinder" in 2018 without thinking of other stuff.

[jacksonM]

Hard to read "match" and "tinder" in 2018 without thinking of other stuff.

Yeah, I actually thought about that myself after my post.

So what would be a better metaphor for what I was trying to say in 2018 now that those words have been co-opted?

[dualstow]

Your metaphor is fine.

[boglerdude]

> why anyone thinks it's a good idea to be in Afghanistan 18 and the Iraqish area 15 years later

Either we civilize/police them, or a dictatorship/theocracy moves in (Russia/China/Iran)
https://old.reddit.com/r/neoconNWO/

[Libertarian666]

> why anyone thinks it's a good idea to be in Afghanistan 18 and the Iraqish area 15 years later

Either we civilize/police them, or a dictatorship/theocracy moves in (Russia/China/Iran)
https://old.reddit.com/r/neoconNWO/

Yes, because "nation building" has always worked so well for us!

[stuper1]

For anyone who thinks that Trump is wrong to label the mainstream media as fake news, can you please explain their current coverage of his conversation with a child about Santa Claus?

First of all, who cares? Second of all, now it's news when somebody tells another person the truth? It's really quite rich when you think about it. You certainly won't hear much of the truth from the mainstream media.

Just one more small example of exactly what he rightly describes as fake news.

And yet people are saying, apparently with straight faces, that he is threatening our First Amendment rights by using this type of language. Guess what? The president also has a first amendment right. The voters will get to choose which version of reality they believe more. If I were a voting man, which I'm not, I know which version I would choose. Frankly, for the first time in 34 years, I'm tempted to register to vote for Trump in 2020, just because I'm so tired of reading all the propaganda against him.

[dualstow]

For anyone who thinks that Trump is wrong to label the mainstream media as fake news, can you please explain their current coverage of his conversation with a child about Santa Claus?
...
And yet people are saying, apparently with straight faces, that he is threatening our First Amendment rights by using this type of language.

I only saw some blurb about his asking a 7-year old if he "still" believed in Santa. Is it true? Kind of dunderheaded if so.
But, what language are you referring to?

[stuper1]

For anyone who thinks that Trump is wrong to label the mainstream media as fake news, can you please explain their current coverage of his conversation with a child about Santa Claus?
...
And yet people are saying, apparently with straight faces, that he is threatening our First Amendment rights by using this type of language.

I only saw some blurb about his asking a 7-year old if he "still" believed in Santa. Is it true? Kind of dunderheaded if so.
But, what language are you referring to?

I thought the argument was that by labeling the media as Fake News he is somehow putting the first amendment on shaky ground. I guess. Is there something else he has done to attack the first amendment? I saw several editorials in our local newspaper saying that Trump was attacking the first amendment, but they didn't have a lot of details. Seems like propaganda to me. As far as I know, journalists are still free to say whatever they like in this country.

It's funny, because they don't seem to realize that every silly thing they publish about him is just helping him. I've reached the point where my gut reaction is to disbelieve anything I read in the media. I guess it's only taken me 50+ years to get to where I should have started. I'm trying to teach my kids a little better than I was taught about media bias, which was basically nothing, without giving them the idea that I'm a kook, which maybe I am.

[Mountaineer]

For anyone who thinks that Trump is wrong to label the mainstream media as fake news, can you please explain their current coverage of his conversation with a child about Santa Claus?
...
And yet people are saying, apparently with straight faces, that he is threatening our First Amendment rights by using this type of language.

I only saw some blurb about his asking a 7-year old if he "still" believed in Santa. Is it true? Kind of dunderheaded if so.
But, what language are you referring to?

I thought the argument was that by labeling the media as Fake News he is somehow putting the first amendment on shaky ground. I guess. Is there something else he has done to attack the first amendment? I saw several editorials in our local newspaper saying that Trump was attacking the first amendment, but they didn't have a lot of details. Seems like propaganda to me. As far as I know, journalists are still free to say whatever they like in this country.

It's funny, because they don't seem to realize that every silly thing they publish about him is just helping him. I've reached the point where my gut reaction is to disbelieve anything I read in the media. I guess it's only taken me 50+ years to get to where I should have started. I'm trying to teach my kids a little better than I was taught about media bias, which was basically nothing, without giving them the idea that I'm a kook, which maybe I am.

[dualstow]

I thought the argument was that by labeling the media as Fake News he is somehow putting the first amendment on shaky ground. I guess. Is there something else he has done to attack the first amendment?

Nah, I think it's more about how he referred to the press as "the enemy of the people", which is kind of what Adolf Hitler said. I don't make the comparison lightly.

That said, the press *is* full of bs these days. I used to consider myself a lib, but I can't watch channels like CNN anymore. Don Lemon is a journalist? No. There is plenty of fake news.

It seems that Trump, being an awful person, has made the left more extreme, too. Ripples and echoes of shi**iness. Or maybe the Left was already corrupted and ripe for a fall.

[stuper1]

It's okay to call them Fake News but not okay to call them the Enemy of the People.

Haha, seems to me just two ways to say the same thing.

This is why Trump got elected. People of all political stripes always say they are tired of two-faced politicians. Finally one comes along that just calls things as he sees them. Boom, guess what happens. Sure, I get it, he's an odious person (really, I say this without any sarcasm). I'm sure I wouldn't want to spend 5 minutes in the same room with him. But still, there's something refreshing about someone who just calls things like he sees them.

[dualstow]

It's okay to call them Fake News but not okay to call them the Enemy of the People.

Haha, seems to me just two ways to say the same thing.

No, it’s a little more nuanced than that. Fake News means ignore them or take them with a grain of salt.
Enemy of the People leads to those t-shirts that say, “Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required.”

I took it as "an enemy of the people" in an "enemy of liberty, enemy of freedom" way...
I think real world "Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required" is a response more often in "an enemy of tyrannical government" type situation.

[stuper1]

I have no problem considering the mainstream media as the enemy of me any my family. Seems about right at this point. I think they are far more likely to cause me harm than I am to cause them harm with a rope or anything like that.

[Cortopassi]

The actual tweet:

There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame...

Seems that is calling out the "media" as the enemy...

[flyingpylon]

“The Fake News Media” is a subset of “The Media”.

Thus, calling the Fake News Media “the enemy of the people” is not the same as calling “The Media” the enemy of the people.

[jacksonM]

The most worrisome thing about the major news media to me is the extent to which they have become a wholly owned subsidiary of one political party. Couple that with all of the recent attempts at shutting down conservative voices and the recent poll that showed 51% of young people have a favorable view of socialism and you can count me as one of those people who think the country is headed in the wrong direction.

Are you ready to join the fight against climate change and to demand "racial and social justice for all" ... https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/25/demo ... -new-deal/

[dualstow]

He never called "the press" the enemy of the people.
He called "fake news" the enemy of the people.

Isn't it odd that they never mention that detail?

Not correct. He said the FakeNewsMedia.
source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 96bcd5dae3

How are we to interpret that? He was merely informing the public that false reports are bad, because people can’t figure that out for themselves? What other nuggets of wisdom does he have in store for us? Don’t drink poison because it’s toxic?

No.

FakeNewsMedia = the media, any outlet that is not his cheerleader. That leaves what, Fox, OAN, Breitbart...

Again, that’s not to say that there isn’t a big problem with CNN, NPR, etc.
But this is what Trump said. See source with the tweet.

[Cortopassi]

“The Fake News Media” is a subset of “The Media”.

Thus, calling the Fake News Media “the enemy of the people” is not the same as calling “The Media” the enemy of the people.

Didn't know I needed to make a Venn diagram....