It would appear not, wouldn't it.
I'm not exactly sure what the IRS' audit lottery matrix looked like back then.
Moderator: Global Moderator
As I understand it, the statute of limitations on IRS audits is 3 years so basically we're right back where we were with Ms. Ford's accusations. Basically meaningless unless all you want to do is throw dirt.
Sounds okay so far. He's claiming to be a Christian and I have no reason not to take him at his word."People are so shocked when they find ... out I am Protestant. I am Presbyterian. And I go to church and I love God and I love my church," he said.
hmm.Moderator Frank Luntz asked Trump whether he has ever asked God for forgiveness for his actions.
"I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't."
"I like to be good. I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don't do a lot of things that are bad. I try to do nothing that is bad."
This all sounds like he doesn't even know what a Christian is, let alone that he is one. Also, either the outlook or the cathechesis (or, likely, both) of whatever Presbyterian church we're talking about is absolutely terrible."Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?" asked Trump. "I work hard, I'm an honorable person."
David knows what evil lurks in the heart of men. (He's like The Shadow that way.) Trying to do better doesn't do it. We need a new one from outside.Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Xan,Xan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:23 pm If anything (and I think the whole analogy is a stretch), Trump is more like one of the pagan kings who in some way advanced God's plan, but were not themselves among God's people. Cyrus the Great, perhaps.
Sounds okay so far. He's claiming to be a Christian and I have no reason not to take him at his word."People are so shocked when they find ... out I am Protestant. I am Presbyterian. And I go to church and I love God and I love my church," he said.
hmm.Moderator Frank Luntz asked Trump whether he has ever asked God for forgiveness for his actions.
"I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't."
"I like to be good. I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don't do a lot of things that are bad. I try to do nothing that is bad."This all sounds like he doesn't even know what a Christian is, let alone that he is one. Also, either the outlook or the cathechesis (or, likely, both) of whatever Presbyterian church we're talking about is absolutely terrible."Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?" asked Trump. "I work hard, I'm an honorable person."
Contrast that with David, who said:
David knows what evil lurks in the heart of men. (He's like The Shadow that way.) Trying to do better doesn't do it. We need a new one from outside.Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Of course, David had to have his violations of God's law thrown in his face to reach this point. What we would call good Law preaching, I suppose. That could still happen for Trump, but hasn't (yet), it would seem.
Sources:
https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics ... index.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-o ... ess-2016-1
https://www.christianpost.com/news/trum ... eo-141856/
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=KJV
Edit: I should point out that I don't think it's necessary for POTUS to be a Christian.
The statute of limitations on general tax return errors is 3-6 years depending on the size of the income misstatement.jacksonM wrote: ↑Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:51 pmAs I understand it, the statute of limitations on IRS audits is 3 years so basically we're right back where we were with Ms. Ford's accusations. Basically meaningless unless all you want to do is throw dirt.
I have no doubt that Trump and family took advantage of every tax loophole available at the time (as I have - how about you?).
And for the record I would rather have a champion on the right that could match the resume of Barack Obama. Despite his politics that I don't agree with I believe that he represents an amazing and commendable American success story which should go down in the history books alongside those of our greatest heroes.
But those of us more closely aligned with the right, whether we be libertarians or whatever, are stuck with Donald Trump. He's obviously a very flawed character but I think he's viewed as like king David in the Bible. Despite his flaws and even God's ultimate disapproval of his methods, he nevertheless won victories over God's enemies
Well I really have no idea what God's plans are, and I so I have no idea whether Trump is advancing them. Romans tells us that all authorities are put in place by God, and also that all things work together for the ultimate good of the elect, so to that extent, he's advancing God's plans, but in exactly the sort of way that Hillary would have.moda0306 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 amXan,
What of God's plans do you think he's advancing that are most important to you? I actually find this take pretty honest and refreshing... My priorities might be different, but I can understand the idea of voting for a relative "slimeball" if they can reliably advance an agenda that's important enough to me.
Xan,Xan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:01 pmWell I really have no idea what God's plans are, and I so I have no idea whether Trump is advancing them. Romans tells us that all authorities are put in place by God, and also that all things work together for the ultimate good of the elect, so to that extent, he's advancing God's plans, but in exactly the sort of way that Hillary would have.moda0306 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 amXan,
What of God's plans do you think he's advancing that are most important to you? I actually find this take pretty honest and refreshing... My priorities might be different, but I can understand the idea of voting for a relative "slimeball" if they can reliably advance an agenda that's important enough to me.
Over the past several years I've gotten a lot less certain about exactly what the "right" way is to arrange society, largely thanks to you, Moda, and (begrudgingly) to Kshartle. I have my preferences (which are largely unchanged), but I no longer confuse them with the One and Only Way Things Should Be. As a result I take the political arena much less personally, which is only good for my health and well-being, and I try to find my identity in Christ (that is, whatever God says about me must certainly be true) and not in some political affiliation, which frees me to stop worrying about the things that will pass away, and instead to (try to) care about all my neighbors as people.
What I was trying to say earlier was not that Trump is a Cyrus, only that that's his ceiling: at BEST he's Cyrus and not David.
I think a lot of Christians support Trump for one or more of the following reasons:
* [sadly] They, like him, have a terribly broken view of what a Christian is.
* He promised to nominate to the Supreme Court people "like Scalia" which could ultimately overturn Roe v Wade. This one would put him in the Cyrus category for many. I don't think the recent addition to the Court is enough, but if he were to also replace Ginsburg and possibly even Breyer, things could get interesting. Moda, you should see that Collins speech where she talks about Kavanaugh's strong belief in stare decisis.
* He doesn't see straight white male Christians as the cause of all the world's problems. This could also be Cyrus-y.
EDIT: chopped out some other discussion for replying in the other thread.
I can take a stab at this one.moda0306 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 am Xan,
What of God's plans do you think he's advancing that are most important to you? I actually find this take pretty honest and refreshing... My priorities might be different, but I can understand the idea of voting for a relative "slimeball" if they can reliably advance an agenda that's important enough to me.
Many interpretations on that one. Mine is that the Holy Spirit represents the spirit of God in the broadest sense, that is, his plan for conquering the world with love and forgiveness. My evidence is that of all the verses in the Bible, the harshest criticism goes to religious figures who, while pretending to serve God are serving their own ends.I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me before others, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God. 9 But whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of God. 10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
You can't make up any of this. I'm sure many satirists are despondent due to being unable to match the craziness of the so-called "real world".
Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....
Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
Hard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.jacksonM wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pmTrump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....
Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
Trump is great for off the cuff stuff at rallies to rile people up, no doubt. But it is always with malice toward someone or something. Never uplifting as far as I can tell.jacksonM wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pmTrump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....
Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
I agree that there is likely a biased view in most media, and I should try to listen to a full speech.
I'd rather have a tooth pulled than listen to a whole speech by any president or politician and that includes Trump.moda0306 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:17 pmHard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.jacksonM wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pmTrump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....
Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.
Agreed to some extent. Again, it might be the bias of the media I am currently consuming, but Trump seems to be a very negative, put down kind of guy, vs. lift up. I've had both kinds of managers in my career and it's pretty easy for me to choose the type I like to work for.jacksonM wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:26 pmI'd rather have a tooth pulled than listen to a whole speech by any president or politician and that includes Trump.moda0306 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:17 pmHard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.
That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.
But my opinion from the soundbites is that Trump actually speaks somewhat like an ordinary person which I find refreshing.
Obama just spoke political gobbledygook and pablum and I always thought of him as the quintessential empty suit just mouthing nonsense to sound smart. Plus he was very condescending.