Trump as tragicomedy

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:54 am

Imagine if Trump didn't tweet. The craziness of the past weeks would be out of the way, and we’d see a White House that is briskly pursuing its goals: the shift in our Pakistan policy, the shift in our offshore drilling policy, the fruition of our ISIS policy, the nomination for judgeships and the formation of policies on infrastructure, DACA, North Korea and trade.

It’s almost as if there are two White Houses. There’s the Potemkin White House, which we tend to focus on: Trump berserk in front of the TV, the lawyers working the Russian investigation and the press operation. Then there is the Invisible White House that you never hear about, which is getting more effective at managing around the distracted boss.

I sometimes wonder if the Invisible White House has learned to use the Potemkin White House to deke us while it changes the country.

I mention these inconvenient observations because the anti-Trump movement, of which I’m a proud member, seems to be getting dumber. It seems to be settling into a smug, fairy tale version of reality that filters out discordant information. More anti-Trumpers seem to be telling themselves a “Madness of King George” narrative: Trump is a semiliterate madman surrounded by sycophants who are morally, intellectually and psychologically inferior to people like us.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/opin ... eft-region
Libertarian666 faps furiously :P
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Tyler » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:30 am

Maddy wrote: I think this woman has pretty much cooked her goose. Any psychiatrist that would presume to make a diagnosis from sound bites on the TV (or to cavalierly toss around the loaded word "dangerous") does not have a particularly bright future.
On the plus side, she can't have her medical license taken away... because it apparently lapsed in 2015.

http://www.pacificpundit.com/2018/01/09 ... d-in-2015/
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:45 pm

Tyler wrote:
Maddy wrote: I think this woman has pretty much cooked her goose. Any psychiatrist that would presume to make a diagnosis from sound bites on the TV (or to cavalierly toss around the loaded word "dangerous") does not have a particularly bright future.
On the plus side, she can't have her medical license taken away... because it apparently lapsed in 2015.

http://www.pacificpundit.com/2018/01/09 ... d-in-2015/
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:59 pm

I saw this comment posted on unz.com today and agree with it 100%:

"The most important thing Trump may have accomplished is unmasking the media hypocrisy and its sheer contempt towards 80% of the country.

I used to believe that the journalists were reasonable people who tried to report fairly but were moderately biased in favor of liberal opinion. But after Trump got elected (or even during the campaign), the media truly showed its true face. They have tried to destroy him at every turn, misrepresent his every word and action, blame him for everything bad that happens (like the shutdown), and to be quite honest have tried to start an insurrection against him. They are not moderately biased, they are basically a propaganda arm telling lies 24×7 about hate crimes and racism.

Before Trump was elected I had some but not absolute faith in media. Now I believe them to be basically a propaganda arm of the elites. I don’t think my faith will ever recover and I am certain there are many more like me."
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by moda0306 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:19 pm

stuper1 wrote:I saw this comment posted on unz.com today and agree with it 100%:

"The most important thing Trump may have accomplished is unmasking the media hypocrisy and its sheer contempt towards 80% of the country.

I used to believe that the journalists were reasonable people who tried to report fairly but were moderately biased in favor of liberal opinion. But after Trump got elected (or even during the campaign), the media truly showed its true face. They have tried to destroy him at every turn, misrepresent his every word and action, blame him for everything bad that happens (like the shutdown), and to be quite honest have tried to start an insurrection against him. They are not moderately biased, they are basically a propaganda arm telling lies 24×7 about hate crimes and racism.

Before Trump was elected I had some but not absolute faith in media. Now I believe them to be basically a propaganda arm of the elites. I don’t think my faith will ever recover and I am certain there are many more like me."
The media is not materially more embarrassing under Trump than they have been... unless you're particularly offended by bumblingly sliming a bumbling slime-ball.

If someone's first realization that the media is a tool of the elite is seeing how they react to Donald Trump, and before that just believed they were "mostly fair with a modest liberal bias," then they have a lot of reading to do. Or just pull up a dozen Noam Chomsky videos on YouTube if you can't handle the reading.

The "deep-state" has been over-seeing the slaughter of millions of human beings for decades under both parties, yet somehow it took conservatives until 2017 to even know the term. To be fair, most liberals never really knew who they were. So at least conservatives brought the term into the lime-light. Now to get them to admit that every President since Truman (including Mango Mussolini) are war criminals, that the FBI has ALWAYS been a corrupt institution, and that Fox News is just as embarrassing as MSNBC, then we can actually start talking. Until then, nice try... Yes CNN is "fake news." So is Fox News and the New York Post.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:38 pm

Moda,

I agree with everything you just posted. I guess I'm just slow. For me, it took this whole Trump thing for the scales to drop off my eyes. So even though he's an odious slimeball, I'm thankful for that. Also, I agree with some of his policies regardless of his personal likeability or lack thereof, most notably the amazing idea that the American president should actually put America first over other countries (e.g., by protecting our borders and economy). Whether he actually believes that himself, of course, is doubtful. Even slow people like me realize by now that all politicians are liars.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Maddy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:38 pm

I'm willing to go along with the idea that the media has always been biased, but this is the first generation of reporters that has approached its job, unabashedly, as a political calling. Not only that, the current batch of reporters shares the same nihilistic mindset as the rest of its generation. When you believe that principles are a silly anachronism that belong in a "Leave it to Beaver" world, how possibly could your reporting be principled?
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:27 am

In context |legal| the difference between pardon and commutation is that pardon is (legal) an order that releases a convicted criminal without further punishment, prevents future punishment, or (in some jurisdictions) removes an offense from a person's criminal record, as if it had never been committed while commutation is (legal) the change to a lesser penalty or punishment by the state.

Perhaps Trump believes that people can repent not only in the religious sense, but also in the civil sense.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:20 am

Desert wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:In context |legal| the difference between pardon and commutation is that pardon is (legal) an order that releases a convicted criminal without further punishment, prevents future punishment, or (in some jurisdictions) removes an offense from a person's criminal record, as if it had never been committed while commutation is (legal) the change to a lesser penalty or punishment by the state.

Perhaps Trump believes that people can repent not only in the religious sense, but also in the civil sense.
I suppose that's possible, but I see no evidence of any religious belief on the part of Trump. I think in this case he's merely pandering to the neocon wing of the GOP. Remember, Trump himself stated that he's never needed to repent of anything.
Trump does not have to have any religious belief in order to pardon Scooter, nor does Trump need to believe that he, Trump, needs to repent - he needed to believe that Scooter had repented of his crimes in order for the pardon. None of this is necessarily true, just a possible reason for his action, just as pandering to the neocons is a possible reason.

However, I do believe that everyone, including Trump has a religion - Trump's is likely a religion with the gods of self, power and wealth at center stage. My hope is that Trump's actions align with the actions that are best for the United States - I could care less whether he believes in the stated gods or the real God (from his vocation as president perspective, not because he is a fellow child of God due all the care and respect all of us should give each other). From my perspective one cannot analyze the heart or motivation of another (that's God's role), only the actions taken, and I'll give Trump a pass on the petty stuff, it's the really important country preservation and growing stuff that I hope he acts appropriately upon. Also, I keep wondering whether Congress' obstruction of Trump, his nominees, and his agenda is a good thing or not; I tend to think Congress as a whole are lap dogs of the powerful far more so than Trump, but perhaps in this case obstruction and inaction could be the better course.

Further, as Mountaineer says while perched on his soapbox, I think the most important issue with long term very bad consequences that is facing our country is the divisiveness that has plagued us for the past couple of decades - in my mind it began with Clinton, gathered steam with GW, really got going with Obama, and is now even worse. I'm now climbing down from my soapbox and getting on with a cup of coffee knowing where my real hope comes from and what sustains me in times of gloom; current events are merely a bump in the road on the path to everlasting joy. :)
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:22 am

Desert wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:In context |legal| the difference between pardon and commutation is that pardon is (legal) an order that releases a convicted criminal without further punishment, prevents future punishment, or (in some jurisdictions) removes an offense from a person's criminal record, as if it had never been committed while commutation is (legal) the change to a lesser penalty or punishment by the state.

Perhaps Trump believes that people can repent not only in the religious sense, but also in the civil sense.
I suppose that's possible, but I see no evidence of any religious belief on the part of Trump. I think in this case he's merely pandering to the neocon wing of the GOP. Remember, Trump himself stated that he's never needed to repent of anything.
Trump does not have to have any religious belief in order to pardon Scooter, nor does Trump need to believe that he, Trump, needs to repent - he needed to believe that Scooter had repented of his crimes in order for the pardon. None of this is necessarily true, just a possible reason for his action, just as pandering to the neocons is a possible reason.

However, I do believe that everyone, including Trump has a religion - Trump's is likely a religion with the gods of self, power and wealth at center stage. My hope is that Trump's actions align with the actions that are best for the United States - I could care less whether he believes in the stated gods or the real God (from his vocation as president perspective, not because he is a fellow child of God due all the care and respect all of us should give each other). From my perspective one cannot analyze the heart or motivation of another (that's God's role), only the actions taken, and I'll give Trump a pass on the petty stuff, it's the really important country preservation and growing stuff that I hope he acts appropriately upon. Also, I keep wondering whether Congress' obstruction of Trump, his nominees, and his agenda is a good thing or not; I tend to think Congress as a whole are lap dogs of the powerful far more so than Trump, but perhaps in this case obstruction and inaction could be the better course.

Further, as Mountaineer says while perched on his soapbox, I think the most important issue with long term very bad consequences that is facing our country is the divisiveness that has plagued us for the past couple of decades - in my mind it began with Clinton, gathered steam with GW, really got going with Obama, and is now even worse. I'm now climbing down from my soapbox and getting on with a cup of coffee knowing where my real hope comes from and what sustains me in times of gloom; current events are merely another bump in the road among others of history on the path to everlasting joy. :)

Edit: Upon further reflection, the current divisiveness probably started with LBJ and Nixon and the Vietnam war and the protest movement. That time period was worse than it has been with Clinton forward.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by clacy » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:36 am

Trump freed North Korea and defeated Isis in his first 18 month. I’m excited to see what the next two years bring.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by ochotona » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:17 pm

clacy wrote:Trump freed North Korea and defeated Isis in his first 18 month. I’m excited to see what the next two years bring.
Hopefully better spelling.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by clacy » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:22 pm

ochotona wrote:
clacy wrote:Trump freed North Korea and defeated Isis in his first 18 month. I’m excited to see what the next two years bring.
Hopefully better spelling.
Is this what the anti-Trump argument has come to?
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by ochotona » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:00 pm

clacy wrote:
ochotona wrote:
clacy wrote:Trump freed North Korea and defeated Isis in his first 18 month. I’m excited to see what the next two years bring.
Hopefully better spelling.
Is this what the anti-Trump argument has come to?
In a way, this is what the anti-Trump argument has been about all along. As you know, the election represented a clash between, on the one hand, those Whites and Asians who have tended to go to college (allied with Blacks, Native Americans, and most Hispanics, many of whom did not go to college), and on the other hand a cohort of less well educated Whites.

Those of us who consider ourselves better educated are appalled at how knowledge and learning have been thrown under the bus by this Administration across a broad range of fields, and since this is an investment board, I'll stick to finance topics. This Administration has been willfully ignorant or is just plain ignorant about the National Debt, and what the new Tax Law will do to our future, and most members of the so-called Party of Fiscal Responsibility have ripped off their clothes and have gleefully lept into the oily orgy with His Orangeness.

So yes, I do hope for a government which is not so ignorant, supported by an electorate which cares more about knowledge, learning and even spelling. Sorry if your typo was innocent. I've actually seen a lot of atrocious spelling emerging from Trump supporters on Twitter, and your error just set me off. There seem to be problems using the apostrophe. I see a lot of confusions between yours and your's, and your and you're.

By the way, before the 2016 election cycle, I was a consistently Republican voter, but I did not vote for Trump.
Last edited by ochotona on Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by ochotona » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:13 pm

Trump has not freed N. Korea. The facts on the ground have not changed there yet. Many thousands of people from different nations have been fighting ISIS for years, why does Trump get all the credit? To my point, these are poorly supported slogans which get uttered by people who ignore facts. Poor spelling pours gasoline on that fire of ignorance.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by boglerdude » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:10 am

Agreed w/ochotona but Trump pushing back against China may cause them to ask their attack dog, N Korea, to stop barking

Maybe the elites/MSM knew the NK threat was never serious, but to hoi polloi like myself ICBMs are unnerving
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by clacy » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:03 am

ochotona wrote:
clacy wrote:
ochotona wrote:
Hopefully better spelling.
Is this what the anti-Trump argument has come to?
In a way, this is what the anti-Trump argument has been about all along. As you know, the election represented a clash between, on the one hand, those Whites and Asians who have tended to go to college (allied with Blacks, Native Americans, and most Hispanics, many of whom did not go to college), and on the other hand a cohort of less well educated Whites.

Those of us who consider ourselves better educated are appalled at how knowledge and learning have been thrown under the bus by this Administration across a broad range of fields, and since this is an investment board, I'll stick to finance topics. This Administration has been willfully ignorant or is just plain ignorant about the National Debt, and what the new Tax Law will do to our future, and most members of the so-called Party of Fiscal Responsibility have ripped off their clothes and have gleefully lept into the oily orgy with His Orangeness.

So yes, I do hope for a government which is not so ignorant, supported by an electorate which cares more about knowledge, learning and even spelling. Sorry if your typo was innocent. I've actually seen a lot of atrocious spelling emerging from Trump supporters on Twitter, and your error just set me off. There seem to be problems using the apostrophe. I see a lot of confusions between yours and your's, and your and you're.

By the way, before the 2016 election cycle, I was a consistently Republican voter, but I did not vote for Trump.


So it sounds like you were, at best, a Neo-Con.

As a business owner with over 500 employees, I can say that spelling is one of the lowest priorities of my customers and employees.

If it’s your big thing, that’s ok, but I would say you’re in for a long, losing battle with the trends in social media.

And I certainly do not see much fiscal responsibility out of the Neo-Cons like Bush, etc so I’m not sure that’s the greatest argument for a never Trump Republican.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by ochotona » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:53 am

Neo-con? Me? Omg no. Much more of a Ron Paul guy.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Don » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:23 pm

Just seeing President Trump accomplish so much while the whole Deep State tries to bring him down and watching the snowflakes melt is making me smile. ;D
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by clacy » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:56 pm

ochotona wrote:Neo-con? Me? Omg no. Much more of a Ron Paul guy.

If it was Ron Paul vs Hillary (or fill in the blank Democratic Socialist), I would vote for him in a second. At the moment, the Libertarian movement is on life support and not politically viable.

I'm about 90% convinced that in the last election, Gary "Aleppo" Johnson was a Dem funded plant to syphon off votes from Trump.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:26 pm

clacy wrote: Gary "Aleppo" Johnson O0
Everybody's a conspiracy theorist. If anything, he damaged Hilary's total.
I like the nickname, though.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by clacy » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:53 pm

dualstow wrote:
clacy wrote: Gary "Aleppo" Johnson O0
Everybody's a conspiracy theorist. If anything, he damaged Hilary's total.
I like the nickname, though.

Regardless, he ended up a non factor, because let’s face it, he is a clown.
Last edited by clacy on Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:55 pm

He really is. And I don't understand how they couldn't have come up with a better independent candidate, someone we could take seriously.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by moda0306 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:06 pm

clacy wrote:
dualstow wrote:
clacy wrote: Gary "Aleppo" Johnson O0
Everybody's a conspiracy theorist. If anything, he damaged Hilary's total.
I like the nickname, though.

Regardless, he ended up a non factor, because let’s face it, he is a clown.
Gary Johnson is a weak candidate, but a clown? Nah.

Trump on the other hand... there you have a clown.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Xan » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:57 pm

Gary has some "interesting" libertarian positions. Like that the baker should be forced to bake the homosexual cake. Audible gasps from the audience during the LP debate when he dropped that bombshell. Don't know how he still got the nomination. Says something about how crazy the other candidates were, I suppose. John McAfee was one.
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