Trump as tragicomedy

[Cortopassi]

You couldn't make this up if you tried.

[Libertarian666]

You couldn't make this up if you tried.

You can't make up any of this. I'm sure many satirists are despondent due to being unable to match the craziness of the so-called "real world".

[bedraggled]

I wonder what Bartleby would think of the above. If I were him, would “I prefer not.” ? But maybe I would.

Herman Melville lived in Albany, NY, down by the docks- no doubt his motivation for Bartleby, or some other book.

[dualstow]

Interesting documentary here, opening with the Russian blackmail-rich dossier on Trumpy.
(Not the existence of it, which is of course semi-old news, but the conversation around it).
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... -showdown/

[Cortopassi]

I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.

[jacksonM]

I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.

Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.

[stuper1]

For me, it's a lot of fun to read what the mainstream media write about Trump's latest speech, basically painting him as the xenophobic, hate-mongering reincarnation of Hitler, and then go find it and actually listen to it, only to be let down again when I just hear him say things that actually sound fairly reasonably (such as that he is going to put his own countrymen first, seeing as how he is actually their president and all).

[moda0306]

I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.

Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.

Hard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.

That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.

[Cortopassi]

I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.

Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.

Trump is great for off the cuff stuff at rallies to rile people up, no doubt. But it is always with malice toward someone or something. Never uplifting as far as I can tell.

[stuper1]

Have you actually listened to a whole Trump speech, or just the excerpts provided by the media? Big difference in tone and content.

[Cortopassi]

Have you actually listened to a whole Trump speech, or just the excerpts provided by the media? Big difference in tone and content.

I agree that there is likely a biased view in most media, and I should try to listen to a full speech.

But I'd have to also say, he makes it too easy for media that is biased against him to continue portraying that aspect.

[jacksonM]

I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.

Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.

Hard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.

That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.

I'd rather have a tooth pulled than listen to a whole speech by any president or politician and that includes Trump.

But my opinion from the soundbites is that Trump actually speaks somewhat like an ordinary person which I find refreshing.

Obama just spoke political gobbledygook and pablum and I always thought of him as the quintessential empty suit just mouthing nonsense to sound smart. Plus he was very condescending.

[Cortopassi]

Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.

Hard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.

That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.

I'd rather have a tooth pulled than listen to a whole speech by any president or politician and that includes Trump.

But my opinion from the soundbites is that Trump actually speaks somewhat like an ordinary person which I find refreshing.

Obama just spoke political gobbledygook and pablum and I always thought of him as the quintessential empty suit just mouthing nonsense to sound smart. Plus he was very condescending.

Agreed to some extent. Again, it might be the bias of the media I am currently consuming, but Trump seems to be a very negative, put down kind of guy, vs. lift up. I've had both kinds of managers in my career and it's pretty easy for me to choose the type I like to work for.
-----------------
I go back to my George W. comments. Of all the recent presidents I would most like to have a beer with, it'd be Carter and George W. They might have made a lot of mistakes but both seem genuine.

[dualstow]

No comments about Trump wanting to pull out of Syria soon? I feel bad for the Kurds, but some here must be happy.

[dualstow]

No comments about Trump wanting to pull out of Syria soon? I feel bad for the Kurds, but some here must be happy.

I want us to pull out of every morass we are currently in.
This is a good start, but only a start.

What would be your first choice as the next step (next pullout)?

[dualstow]

Wow, now Afghanistan. https://apnews.com/bfd0869cc8a641849791fa32391457af
The ink was barely dry on my sig line.

I’m happy for the troops and their families, but this all sems a bit..abrupt.

[Cortopassi]

I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate, I am quite amazed how grown men, some of them prior generals in the military have difficulty dealing with the way Trump operates, esp. coming from a regimented command structure. They are deferential mainly, because they are respecting the chain of command. But sometimes they slow walk things or have to work around to an idea or concept that makes Trump think he's come up with it.

It's a little scary that for the most part what the president says, Trump or otherwise, is generally the edict and everyone tries to execute on it without much pushback, esp. after he's berated you a few times.

an interesting article on why trump operates the way he does.. https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... p_run.html

[flyingpylon]

I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...

It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.

[Cortopassi]

I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...

It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.

I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.

On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.

[stuper1]

I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...

It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.

I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.

On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.

From what you know, has Trump generally been a success or a failure as a businessman? Sure, he had a headstart by being born into a rich family. But a lot of people had a headstart like that and ended up with a lot less money than when they started. How much ahead of where he started is Trump versus yourself? I know he's far ahead of me. If you conclude that he's fairly successful as a businessman, do you think he achieved that by being a tyrant or by being a good boss? Do you ever wonder if the media might just have some sort of hidden agenda for wanting us all to think that he's just a tyrant?

[dualstow]

I want us to pull out of every morass we are currently in.
This is a good start, but only a start.

What would be your first choice as the next step (next pullout)?

Afghanistan... but it looks like that's already in the works!

Indeed.

[flyingpylon]

I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...

It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.

I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.

Things I've read about Woodward's accuracy and general approach in his books combined with your use of the word "assume" and now "imagine" are what raised red flags for me. I don't have any first-hand knowledge to confirm or deny any of the rest.

[Cortopassi]

It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.

I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.

On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.

From what you know, has Trump generally been a success or a failure as a businessman? Sure, he had a headstart by being born into a rich family. But a lot of people had a headstart like that and ended up with a lot less money than when they started. How much ahead of where he started is Trump versus yourself? I know he's far ahead of me. If you conclude that he's fairly successful as a businessman, do you think he achieved that by being a tyrant or by being a good boss? Do you ever wonder if the media might just have some sort of hidden agenda for wanting us all to think that he's just a tyrant?

Are they writing his tweets for him? Sure seems like a tyrant to me, without any help from the media. Do I have to clip some tweets in this post?

Sure, he's more successful in business, and he can go to his deathbed thinking about all the money he's made and the women he's bedded. That's not the stuff I'd be looking to reminisce on, on my deathbed.

All I can say is I would not function well in the environment that he seems to create around him.

[dualstow]

A lot of his tweets are written by Dan Scavino.

[stuper1]

I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.

On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.

From what you know, has Trump generally been a success or a failure as a businessman? Sure, he had a headstart by being born into a rich family. But a lot of people had a headstart like that and ended up with a lot less money than when they started. How much ahead of where he started is Trump versus yourself? I know he's far ahead of me. If you conclude that he's fairly successful as a businessman, do you think he achieved that by being a tyrant or by being a good boss? Do you ever wonder if the media might just have some sort of hidden agenda for wanting us all to think that he's just a tyrant?

Are they writing his tweets for him? Sure seems like a tyrant to me, without any help from the media. Do I have to clip some tweets in this post?

Sure, he's more successful in business, and he can go to his deathbed thinking about all the money he's made and the women he's bedded. That's not the stuff I'd be looking to reminisce on, on my deathbed.

All I can say is I would not function well in the environment that he seems to create around him.

And what I'm saying is that I really doubt that the environment he actually creates around him is much like what the media wants us to think it is. If it was how the media paints it, I seriously doubt he would be a successful businessman.