Trump as tragicomedy

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

Kbg
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2815
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Kbg » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:52 pm

I was going to comment on taxes...let’s just set aside tax policy and the complexity of tax law for the below.

Rich people hire lots of lawyers and accountants to figure out ways to not pay taxes and at the wealth level we are talking about it is likely profitable to do so. Some of these strategies involve pushing the edge in new ways...which if detected usually results in a tax ruling or updated tax law, especially if some enterprising tax lawyer finds or invents a new loophole you can drive through. This is not always a bad thing...one such newly invented loophole at the time brought us 401K plans.

There is a huge difference between playing the above legal game and tax fraud. Tax fraud means lying about the facts and/or breaking existing law which has no statute of limitations at the Federal level. Creative accounting (if legal) and errors made by us mere mortals is not fraud.

Let’s just get this clear...this is NY state. They can investigate and prosecute. If they do then maybe there is something there. If they don’t, then our lefty friends should conclude NYT has published more fake news.
sweetbthescrivener
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:53 pm

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:43 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 am
Xan,

What of God's plans do you think he's advancing that are most important to you? I actually find this take pretty honest and refreshing... My priorities might be different, but I can understand the idea of voting for a relative "slimeball" if they can reliably advance an agenda that's important enough to me.
I can take a stab at this one.

One of the ambiguous verses of the Bible is Luke 12:8-10:
I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me before others, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God. 9 But whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of God. 10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
Many interpretations on that one. Mine is that the Holy Spirit represents the spirit of God in the broadest sense, that is, his plan for conquering the world with love and forgiveness. My evidence is that of all the verses in the Bible, the harshest criticism goes to religious figures who, while pretending to serve God are serving their own ends.

So that is my basic definition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, seeking your own ends behind a cloak of godliness.

This principle works in a secular sense as well. The pedophile scout leader, the abusive social worker, the embezzling supposedly loyal employee. Anyone who hides their evil behind fake altruism is an especially bad person.

The spiritual principle, for me, that Trump is advancing, is punishment for this sort of violation. I have become appalled, in the past decade or so, at the hypocrisy and corruption of the left in America. It is not the liberal spirit that I recognize, the one that I once believed in.

The way they have turned their back on the middle class and lower classes, and embraced identity politics and open borders in a craven bid to secure majority voters for the future, is just plain evil to me.

I also take exception to their mode of debate. From what I can see, they just use guilt and shaming language to silence their opponents. They seem to revel in creating division and pushing everyone into opposing camps based not on ideas but on race, sexual identity, gender.

I think they are as intellectually lazy as can be. I also don't understand how you can say you care about underdogs when you fight to get rid of all protections for the individual. Bye bye free speech, bye bye presumption of innocence, bye bye due process, bye bye biology and the hard sciences.

I see them as fat lazy pigs who are basically hypocrites. Not old school liberals, who are awesome and necessary, but identitarians who just string together adjectives to attack others and also to defend themselves.

The value of Trump for me, and I am not saying unequivocally that there is a divine directive behind his victory, is that winning the election has exposed the modern left for what it is.

They were so sure that old white capitalists were relics and far behind them in the rear view mirror, so to have one of them win, and one as crass and bombastic as Trump should have served as the wake up call of the century.

It should have made them regroup and ask what they had done wrong, since the victory was theirs for the taking, and they messed it up.

To put it simply, Trump is a big spanking for people who hide their selfish corrupt selves behind fake concern for the downtrodden.

You can't shame someone who doesn't care what you think.

The fact that he just carries on, and doesn't care if a million screeching feminists in pink hats hate him, doesn't care if the U.N. laughs at his speech, to me this is entirely bracing, and a corrective to all the touchy feely, new agey, wimpy, soft males and overbearing feminists who have dominated the discussion since as long as I can remember.

Crass as he is, he is masculinity giving notice, roaring back, doing his thing and not caring if people call him deplorable.

The real signal he is sending out, in my opinion, is that you don't have to feel shame or guilt because of your color or your gender, and you certainly don't have to feel guilty for something you didn't do.

Donald Trump is how God is choosing to teach the left to stop crying wolf, and start getting on with life.

And they still aren't listening. All I see is doubling down on the original shaming language and fake moral righteousness.

And that is God's way of showing the rest of us what the current iteration of the left is really all about.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:41 am

sweetbethescrivener,

Interesting analysis. Thanks for sharing.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:20 am

I would say Trump doesn’t care what people think when he’s speaking.
Also, I agree that he doesn’t mind being called deplorable.
Still, I think he has an incredibly fragile ego. He most certainly cares about criticism that calls his intelligence into question, or that which describes him as infantile.

It’s more than I’d be able to handle. I’m just saying, he is vulnerable.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
moda0306
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 7680
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by moda0306 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:36 am

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-u ... nance.html

At least he's anti-establishment when it comes to our sick relationship with Saudi Ara..... Nevermind.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:17 pm

You couldn't make this up if you tried.

Image
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Libertarian666 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:23 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:17 pm
You couldn't make this up if you tried.

Image
You can't make up any of this. I'm sure many satirists are despondent due to being unable to match the craziness of the so-called "real world".
bedraggled
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 705
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:20 am

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by bedraggled » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:42 pm

I wonder what Bartleby would think of the above. If I were him, would “I prefer not.” ? But maybe I would.

Herman Melville lived in Albany, NY, down by the docks- no doubt his motivation for Bartleby, or some other book.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:14 am

Interesting documentary here, opening with the Russian blackmail-rich dossier on Trumpy.
(Not the existence of it, which is of course semi-old news, but the conversation around it).
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... -showdown/
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm

I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
jacksonM
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:59 pm

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by jacksonM » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm
I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
stuper1
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by stuper1 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:18 pm

For me, it's a lot of fun to read what the mainstream media write about Trump's latest speech, basically painting him as the xenophobic, hate-mongering reincarnation of Hitler, and then go find it and actually listen to it, only to be let down again when I just hear him say things that actually sound fairly reasonably (such as that he is going to put his own countrymen first, seeing as how he is actually their president and all).
User avatar
moda0306
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 7680
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by moda0306 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:17 pm

jacksonM wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm
I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
Hard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.

That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:52 pm

jacksonM wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm
I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
Trump is great for off the cuff stuff at rallies to rile people up, no doubt. But it is always with malice toward someone or something. Never uplifting as far as I can tell.
stuper1
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by stuper1 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:26 pm

Have you actually listened to a whole Trump speech, or just the excerpts provided by the media? Big difference in tone and content.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:05 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:26 pm
Have you actually listened to a whole Trump speech, or just the excerpts provided by the media? Big difference in tone and content.
I agree that there is likely a biased view in most media, and I should try to listen to a full speech.

But I'd have to also say, he makes it too easy for media that is biased against him to continue portraying that aspect.
jacksonM
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:59 pm

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by jacksonM » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:26 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:17 pm
jacksonM wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm
I preface this by saying I voted for Trump....

Just wanted to note now with HW passing, I thought George W. was a poor speaking, bumbling kind of guy while in office. In re-looking at him lately talking about his Dad and life, compared to Trump, he now looks like a well spoken statesman orator.
Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
Hard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.

That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.
I'd rather have a tooth pulled than listen to a whole speech by any president or politician and that includes Trump.

But my opinion from the soundbites is that Trump actually speaks somewhat like an ordinary person which I find refreshing.

Obama just spoke political gobbledygook and pablum and I always thought of him as the quintessential empty suit just mouthing nonsense to sound smart. Plus he was very condescending.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:06 pm

jacksonM wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:26 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:17 pm
jacksonM wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:00 pm


Trump is no orator but I don't think he speaks that badly. He sure knows how to fire up a crowd. I just think a lot of people don't like what he has to say.

For a president with overrated oratorical skills I would nominate Barack Obama.
Hard to tell given your moving goal posts, but if your assertion is that Trump is a better orator than Obama, I think you're pretty objectively incorrect.

That said, if we're going to talk about "overrated" orators as president, rather than if they're just incoherent nincompoops like Trump, nobody takes the cake like Reagan.
I'd rather have a tooth pulled than listen to a whole speech by any president or politician and that includes Trump.

But my opinion from the soundbites is that Trump actually speaks somewhat like an ordinary person which I find refreshing.

Obama just spoke political gobbledygook and pablum and I always thought of him as the quintessential empty suit just mouthing nonsense to sound smart. Plus he was very condescending.
Agreed to some extent. Again, it might be the bias of the media I am currently consuming, but Trump seems to be a very negative, put down kind of guy, vs. lift up. I've had both kinds of managers in my career and it's pretty easy for me to choose the type I like to work for.
-----------------
I go back to my George W. comments. Of all the recent presidents I would most like to have a beer with, it'd be Carter and George W. They might have made a lot of mistakes but both seem genuine.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:10 am

No comments about Trump wanting to pull out of Syria soon? I feel bad for the Kurds, but some here must be happy.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:41 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:42 pm
dualstow wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:10 am
No comments about Trump wanting to pull out of Syria soon? I feel bad for the Kurds, but some here must be happy.
I want us to pull out of every morass we are currently in.
This is a good start, but only a start.
What would be your first choice as the next step (next pullout)?
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14231
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:08 am

Wow, now Afghanistan. https://apnews.com/bfd0869cc8a641849791fa32391457af
The ink was barely dry on my sig line.

I’m happy for the troops and their families, but this all sems a bit..abrupt.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am

I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate, I am quite amazed how grown men, some of them prior generals in the military have difficulty dealing with the way Trump operates, esp. coming from a regimented command structure. They are deferential mainly, because they are respecting the chain of command. But sometimes they slow walk things or have to work around to an idea or concept that makes Trump think he's come up with it.

It's a little scary that for the most part what the president says, Trump or otherwise, is generally the edict and everyone tries to execute on it without much pushback, esp. after he's berated you a few times.
Simonjester wrote: an interesting article on why trump operates the way he does.. https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... p_run.html
flyingpylon
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:04 am

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am
I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...
It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:49 am

flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am
I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...
It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.
I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.

On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.
stuper1
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by stuper1 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:11 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:49 am
flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:16 am
I read Bob Woodward's book Fear, and assuming his sources and details are accurate...
It might be worth reading some critical reviews of Fear and Woodward's other books for additional input, if you haven't already.
I will. And I assume it will dispute a lot of the accounts. The problem is, you can easily imagine that's the state of the White House given how he acts in public and on Twitter.

On the way Trump operates -- I have had 13 different jobs in almost 30 years of working. I have worked at companies where the owner/CEO/manager was a tyrant, a bigot, a narcissist, a back stabber, and a few where they were genuinely good people and motivators. Sure you can lead with a stick, but I have always performed my best when I had respect for my manager and/or the CEO vs. hating/fearing them.
From what you know, has Trump generally been a success or a failure as a businessman? Sure, he had a headstart by being born into a rich family. But a lot of people had a headstart like that and ended up with a lot less money than when they started. How much ahead of where he started is Trump versus yourself? I know he's far ahead of me. If you conclude that he's fairly successful as a businessman, do you think he achieved that by being a tyrant or by being a good boss? Do you ever wonder if the media might just have some sort of hidden agenda for wanting us all to think that he's just a tyrant?
Post Reply