Trump as tragicomedy

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Desert
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Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Desert » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:36 pm

After watching Trump in office for the past several months, I have begun to view his reign as a true tragicomedy. Previously, I was in touch with mostly the tragedy of having someone like Trump in the presidency. Lately, I've been able to step back and really enjoy the dark comedy that is his administration. He has proven to be completely ineffective, even with GOP control of congress. That has made me less concerned about the damage he could do, and has allowed me to just stand back and enjoy big belly laughs as I watch him bumble from one failure to the next. The utter chaos he has installed in the executive branch breeds all manner of comedy: from the ridiculous speeches, to the unqualified children and their spouses that he plops in meetings with serious world leaders. The turnover of his staff is the most enjoyable to watch ... you can't make up comedy this good. The Mooch is the latest and greatest example. SNL is no match for this beautiful train wreck. This comedy could represent the last gasps of a once great empire, but I prefer to view it as a brief downturn in our nation's relentless and rocky journey to a better state. But in any case, I'm gonna be laughing. It not only feels good, it's the only logical response to this great comedic mess that is the Trump administration. I hope you all will laugh with me.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:02 am

It has gone from hopeful to tragic for me. Sometimes funny, sure. The guy has a huge ego that seems to need to be stroked daily. I suppose I knew that, but now on full display, I regret that I had to make this choice.

I wish I had an opportunity to vote for Bernie.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Desert » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:23 am

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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:57 pm

Some say there will be three phases:

Phase 1: OMG, TRUMP IS HITLER!!

Phase 2: Okay, he's not Hitler... BUT HE'S INCOMPETENT AND INEFFECTIVE!

Phase 3: Okay, he's competent and effective (or at least effective)... but I don't like what he's doing! (i.e. pretty normal politics)

At about 6 months in, it sounds like much of his opposition is already into phase 2. Whether they get to phase 3 remains to be seen but we've got a long way to go.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by moda0306 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:41 pm

flyingpylon wrote:Some say there will be three phases:

Phase 1: OMG, TRUMP IS HITLER!!

Phase 2: Okay, he's not Hitler... BUT HE'S INCOMPETENT AND INEFFECTIVE!

Phase 3: Okay, he's competent and effective (or at least effective)... but I don't like what he's doing! (i.e. pretty normal politics)

At about 6 months in, it sounds like much of his opposition is already into phase 2. Whether they get to phase 3 remains to be seen but we've got a long way to go.
What are the inconsistent, exaggerated phases of "much" of his supporters? Or how about the other "much" of his opposition that actually have well-grounded reasons for thinking he is at-best an embarrassing, sleaze-ball buffoon, and at worst a dangerous personality to have so "much" control over the most powerful killing force in the history of the world?

When "much" of the liberal population elects Kanye West, I will join the f*ck out of every conservative poking fund and expressing reasonable concern at the situation. Until then, there's only one dipsh!t with the nuke codes, and he wasn't put there by millennial snowflakes.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:54 pm

Trump is certainly not my personal idea of a role model .... but, you know me, I place God's will above mans' sinful corrupted view of how things should be according to our fallen and cursed reason. To the best of my knowledge, Trump has not required us to go against any of God's Word. So:

LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR
#16 Parents and other authority figures in church and society deserve love, respect, and obedience because God has set them over us as his representatives. In the event that they command us to do something contrary to God’s Word, then we must obey God and disobey their command.
#17 Secular governments are instituted by God to maintain peace and order on earth. Therefore Christians should always respect their leaders as God’s representatives and should pray for them. Christians may serve in government and may work to improve government.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by moda0306 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:02 pm

Mountaineer wrote:To the best of my knowledge, Trump has not required us to go against any of God's Word.
Could you give me a list of presidents since Kennedy (just to keep things recent) that have, in your view, required us to go against any of God's Word.

I'm trying to drill down to how you define it... especially since every President on that list (and others) has authorized non-defensive military action.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:25 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:To the best of my knowledge, Trump has not required us to go against any of God's Word.
Could you give me a list of presidents since Kennedy (just to keep things recent) that have, in your view, required us to go against any of God's Word.

I'm trying to drill down to how you define it... especially since every President on that list (and others) has authorized non-defensive military action.
Help me understand what part of God's Word you think has been violated by those Presidents. On the surface, I don't see it but I'm very open to your views. Off the top of my head, I'd say Obama came closest but I think that is probably my opinion rather than fact because he made me sick at my stomach to listen/watch him because of his overt narcissism. I have a hard time being objective about Obama.
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:29 pm

Mountaineer wrote: #16 Parents and other authority figures in church and society deserve love, respect, and obedience because God has set them over us as his representatives. In the event that they command us to do something contrary to God’s Word, then we must obey God and disobey their command.
#17 Secular governments are instituted by God to maintain peace and order on earth. Therefore Christians should always respect their leaders as God’s representatives and should pray for them. Christians may serve in government and may work to improve government.
Sorry, I am not a religious person, where do these come from?
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:44 pm

Awesome. O0

Tragicomedy is the word. I can't think of a more apt term.

His supporters will always find a way to focus on something else, be it the admittedly shitty Democrats, or conspiracy theories, or "at least he's xenophobic like me." All I can think is if he's so busy trying to pardon himself and defend his large but sensitive ego, how does he have time to get anything productive done? He doesn't.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Benko » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:03 pm

What really matters?

A. Economy/jobs, stock market, regulations, judges, immigration, electing out of climate change stuff, etc Or

B The show (insane/and incompetent to varying degrees to be sure).

Certainly the health care bill and taxes matter, but if both houses are determined to hurt Trump so the people will never again elect someone not of the uniparty I'm not sure there is much Trump can do.

He should remove congress's exemption from obamacare.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:16 pm

Benko, surely it's A, or at least parts of A. "The show' is more embarrassment than anything else, although angering China by tweeting all the time can certainly do diplomatic damage that we of course can't simply undo with superior firepower.

I blame Mitch McConnell and the Republicans for the health care bill. They suck, plain and simple. They are as evil as they are incompetent, and I don't even think they're trying to hurt Trump. I also don't think they care about people.

Trump may give us some short-term economic gains, but the long term effects don't look good, at least to me. I'm happy to run off to dinner and not think about this for a while. :D
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:32 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: #16 Parents and other authority figures in church and society deserve love, respect, and obedience because God has set them over us as his representatives. In the event that they command us to do something contrary to God’s Word, then we must obey God and disobey their command.
#17 Secular governments are instituted by God to maintain peace and order on earth. Therefore Christians should always respect their leaders as God’s representatives and should pray for them. Christians may serve in government and may work to improve government.
Sorry, I am not a religious person, where do these come from?
Hope this helps.

http://www.celc.info/home/180010197/180 ... =180010197
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:16 pm

I think reading the headlines only is the best way to maximize the humor. Much funnier that way; the articles try to be so much more.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:08 pm

I call him The Accidental President.

I don't think he thought he would win anything. He hooked a whale and couldn't let go as it pulled him into the abyss. By this time he must be thinking what the hell did I do?

I can go along with it being tragicomedy, for sure.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mr Vacuum » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:24 pm

The opportunity cost of four years of chaos is tough to swallow. On top of the sunk costs... how much do we dump into running an election and then transitioning administrations? Sheesh, it'd be nice to get something done. I don't even care what, just something.
dualstow wrote:Benko, surely it's A, or at least parts of A. "The show' is more embarrassment than anything else, although angering China by tweeting all the time can certainly do diplomatic damage that we of course can't simply undo with superior firepower.
And there's that.

But, yes, Desert, I will be laughing when I can. Scaramucci week helped a lot on that front.

I'd like to see more of this: An Oral History of the Scaramucci Era. The article is full of quotes from real people coming from different perspectives on the big events of the week, close to or far from the action.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Maddy » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:50 pm

Except that it's all dead serious.

Frankly, Trump's bull-in-a-china shop way of getting things done is the least of my concerns. It's the progressives allied with a majority of the Republican party, both bent on tearing down every last edifice of civil society to the point of anarchy--that are keeping me awake at night. This week we've got a whole new set of "leaks" out of the Oval Office, as well as a Coast Guard commandant broadcasting his intent to directly defy a direct order of his Commander in Chief. These are just the latest displays of indifference toward the authority of government, and toward the rule of law itself. This is the thing that is going to destroy the country, not a bunch of miscalculated "tweets."

I find myself searching for an answer to why such extreme acts of defiance against the duly elected government--and, more importantly, the rule of law--are going virtually unpunished. It's absolutely astounding that you can broadcast a message explicitly calling for the assassination of a sitting president, and not a peep is heard from federal law enforcement. Likewise, how can it be that the Coast Guard commandant can simply "break rank" and explicitly declare his intent to defy the order of his Commander in Chief without being hauled out in shackles and court martialed?

Every day, we see the Left making new inroads in the effort to bring it all down. It's now clear who's calling the shots and where they're going. Meanwhile, the conservatives in the Department of Justice sit on their hands despite being handed, on a silver platter, all of the evidence necessary to not only indict, but to convict, many of these players. Guess they've been busy putting out the red carpet for Mueller. When, I wonder, does the truly conservative arm of government wake up and realize that the progressives and RINOs are not playing for peanuts?
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Benko » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:11 pm

" It's now clear who's calling the shots and where they're going. "

This is Trump's biggest accomplishment. Not that many didn't suspect or know before this.

"Meanwhile, the conservatives in the Department of Justice sit on their hands despite being handed, on a silver platter, all of the evidence necessary to not only indict, but to convict, many of these players."

This I don't understand.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Maddy » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Benko wrote:" It's now clear who's calling the shots and where they're going. "

This is Trump's biggest accomplishment. Not that many didn't suspect or know before this.
Very good point.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Xan » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Mr Vacuum wrote:The opportunity cost of four years of chaos is tough to swallow. On top of the sunk costs... how much do we dump into running an election and then transitioning administrations? Sheesh, it'd be nice to get something done. I don't even care what, just something.
I'd say in general, the government doing nothing is far better than it doing something. And doing nothing is worlds better than doing the wrong something. So this isn't so bad, really.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Desert » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:03 pm

Mountaineer wrote:Trump is certainly not my personal idea of a role model .... but, you know me, I place God's will above mans' sinful corrupted view of how things should be according to our fallen and cursed reason. To the best of my knowledge, Trump has not required us to go against any of God's Word. So:

LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR
#16 Parents and other authority figures in church and society deserve love, respect, and obedience because God has set them over us as his representatives. In the event that they command us to do something contrary to God’s Word, then we must obey God and disobey their command.
#17 Secular governments are instituted by God to maintain peace and order on earth. Therefore Christians should always respect their leaders as God’s representatives and should pray for them. Christians may serve in government and may work to improve government.
I will only make one comment in this thread on this topic, and the rest we can move to the Religion thread (it's not long enough yet). I think Matthew 25 has probably been expunged from the GOP Bible, but not mine. This administration has done everything possible to go after the least of us. And they have taken great pleasure in doing so. The fact that they have been stymied by decent people along the way, as well their own unpresidented (sic) incompetence has allowed me to experience less anxiety and more humor in the whole tragedy.

Trump's actions stand in opposition to nearly every Christian principle that I am aware of. And in a representative democracy, we don't have rulers as described in the Bible. In fact, as citizens, we're responsible for the actions of our government. They work for us, they're our employees (I know the reality, but please indulge my brief departure into idealism). When they trample on Biblical principles and basic human decency, we have the responsibility to oppose them in any way possible. Right now I've decided to voice my opposition in a more comedic form, since that's healthier for me than just sitting around being angry and disappointed.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Maddy » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:06 pm

If Trump really wants to ban transgender people from military service (and I have no idea if he has the power to do this or not), then give a real directive to specific people with guidance on how to carry it out. To my knowledge, he has not done so. To me, this is the mark of a weak leader and feeble man.
I guess you and I made two different assumptions about whether an actual order had been given. But aren't you parsing it a bit thinly regardless? Having worked for many years in an office for either a boss or a hierarchy of bosses, I can say with assuredness that had I intentionally contravened a superior's clear statement of policy--or even an expression of preference--on grounds that I had received no actual directive, it would have been viewed as a serious instance of insubordination.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Pointedstick » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:33 pm

Maddy wrote:
If Trump really wants to ban transgender people from military service (and I have no idea if he has the power to do this or not), then give a real directive to specific people with guidance on how to carry it out. To my knowledge, he has not done so. To me, this is the mark of a weak leader and feeble man.
I guess you and I made two different assumptions about whether an actual order had been given. But aren't you parsing it a bit thinly regardless? Having worked for many years in an office for either a boss or a hierarchy of bosses, I can say with assuredness that had I intentionally contravened a superior's clear statement of policy--or even an expression of preference--on grounds that I had received no actual directive, it would have been viewed as a serious instance of insubordination.
That's one of the major differences between the private sector and the political world. There's a clearly-defined process that must be followed for these things, and if that doesn't happen, it isn't valid.

Heck, for ages, this has been the conservative argument against liberals who try to get their agenda pushed through despite the safeguards of the process (for example, with the courts, when a judge ignores the wording of a law to reach a conclusion that feels fairer).

It would be awfully ironic for the de facto leader of conservative America to act in the same way, revealing that this principled defense of process was never all that principled in the first place.

I think that's one of the big lessons that America has learned recently: every single faction's so-called principles are quickly discarded when inconvenient.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by sophie » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:32 am

Maddy wrote: I find myself searching for an answer to why such extreme acts of defiance against the duly elected government--and, more importantly, the rule of law--are going virtually unpunished. It's absolutely astounding that you can broadcast a message explicitly calling for the assassination of a sitting president, and not a peep is heard from federal law enforcement. Likewise, how can it be that the Coast Guard commandant can simply "break rank" and explicitly declare his intent to defy the order of his Commander in Chief without being hauled out in shackles and court martialed?
This has been gradually gathering steam for a long time. Laws are routinely ignored on both sides of the aisle and at every governmental level - think illegal immigration, medical marijuana laws, and even little things like speed limits. It's almost as if laws are no longer about keeping an ordered society, but rather to score political points and set up a flow of income to governments (via fines). Even if the immediate result is positive, undermining the significance of laws is worrisome. And it seems to be pretty universal, and not specific to any party or political wing.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by jhogue » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:19 am

Pointedstick,

Is Trump really the “de facto leader of conservative America”?

See Peggy Noonan’s column in last Saturday’s WSJ. Ronald Reagan’s most loyal speechwriter described Trump as “Woody Allen without the Humor.” She also scorched him for being a disgrace to American masculinity and unseemly in his remarks to the Boy Scouts. Can’t imagine her insisting (ala Reagan) that we just “Let Trump Be Trump!”

One possibility is that Trump will end up splitting the Republicans the way Teddy Roosevelt split the GOP between progressives and conservatives. The other is that this faux populist will fade into irrelevance and obscurity, like Jesse Ventura, the former pro wrestler who became governor of Minnesota in a 3-way contest against an unusually weak Democrat and an unappealing Republican.
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