Self Driving Cars Article

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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by l82start » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:04 pm

just as a counter point to some of what has been said about what makes driving bad.... being alone is a perk not a flaw for happy driving, being alone in the car is my quiet time, so not having somebody around is a positive not a negative...

the stop and surge traffic jam is the one spot i would like a self driving car, it is a particularly annoying type of traffic, busy/fast/slow /crazy i don't mind.... but stop and go takes extra focus on driving and builds frustration quickly, especially when the cause is everyone rubbernecking some guy fixing a flat well out of traffic making the entire jam a pointless exercise in dumb human behavior...
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Maddy » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:30 pm

At least it's an approach that, for once, recognizes the principal pitfall of mass transit. That problem, which is the elephant in the livingroom, is that normal middle and upper-class people--at least those on the west coast and central U.S.--generally will do anything to avoid being forced to commune with the dreaded public.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by dualstow » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:41 pm

Compare this to the pipe dream future of high-tech AI-driven vehicles that does not yet exist, and if it ever does, it will be very expensive, still be more dangerous than trains,

You don't think current, existing Google cars aren't already pretty impressive, PS?

I love trains and I take Amtrak (NE corridor), but individual cars make good sense for large families with young kids, smokers (and tokers), traveling salesmen, pets, and so on. A lot of people are used to that privacy.

I'll use the word I use for firearms in the U.S.: cars are entrenched.

Maybe you're just making to much sense. I would like to see trains and AI cars. What I expect is a messy, poorly executed transition to the latter. In the meantime, I'll be riding the Hyperloop.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:46 pm

dualstow wrote:
Compare this to the pipe dream future of high-tech AI-driven vehicles that does not yet exist, and if it ever does, it will be very expensive, still be more dangerous than trains,

You don't think current, existing Google cars aren't already pretty impressive, PS?

I love trains and I take Amtrak (NE corridor), but individual cars make good sense for large families with young kids, smokers (and tokers), traveling salesmen, pets, and so on. A lot of people are used to that privacy.

I'll use the word I use for firearms in the U.S.: cars are entrenched.

Maybe you're just making to much sense. I would like to see trains and AI cars. What I expect is a messy, poorly executed transition to the latter. In the meantime, I'll be riding the Hyperloop.
Not to poke too much fun, but perhaps a resurgence of LSD with self-driving car aficionados could prove extremely entertaining for those who enjoy Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, or perhaps Puff, the Magic Dragon flashbacks, or flashforwards. ;)
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by dualstow » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:49 pm

I suppose we'd have to be careful how we use the term 'road trip.'
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:36 pm

dualstow wrote:I suppose we'd have to be careful how we use the term 'road trip.'
Good one!
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Cortopassi » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:44 am

l82start wrote: the stop and surge traffic jam is the one spot i would like a self driving car, it is a particularly annoying type of traffic, busy/fast/slow /crazy i don't mind.... but stop and go takes extra focus on driving and builds frustration quickly, especially when the cause is everyone rubbernecking some guy fixing a flat well out of traffic making the entire jam a pointless exercise in dumb human behavior...
That's my main reason as well.

The other one I would find useful is for my aging parents. They are 30 miles away, my dad doesn't drive anymore and my mom doesn't like expressways or driving at night. Given that we are busy with 2 kids, that severely limits the times we get together. There are no convenient trains or non-car routes between us either.

So if they could hop into a self driving car that they either have, or comes up to their driveway automatically, get to our house, visit and then do the same in return, that would be a big plus in the family seeing each other more often.

Considering this is the norm now, families generally not living next to each other, and probably lots across city and suburbs and farther, as people get older, I know I'd love to have this convenience.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by l82start » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:02 am

same for my folks, but i am not sure the age/technology barrier can be crossed, would they trust it? would the car clock be flashing 12:00 forever? each driver less car might need a tech guy riding along just to set the destination and calm the technology fears......
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by dualstow » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:22 am

l82start wrote:would the car clock be flashing 12:00 forever?
;D
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by WiseOne » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:26 am

Cortopassi wrote:
l82start wrote: the stop and surge traffic jam is the one spot i would like a self driving car, it is a particularly annoying type of traffic, busy/fast/slow /crazy i don't mind.... but stop and go takes extra focus on driving and builds frustration quickly, especially when the cause is everyone rubbernecking some guy fixing a flat well out of traffic making the entire jam a pointless exercise in dumb human behavior...
That's my main reason as well.

The other one I would find useful is for my aging parents. They are 30 miles away, my dad doesn't drive anymore and my mom doesn't like expressways or driving at night. Given that we are busy with 2 kids, that severely limits the times we get together. There are no convenient trains or non-car routes between us either.

So if they could hop into a self driving car that they either have, or comes up to their driveway automatically, get to our house, visit and then do the same in return, that would be a big plus in the family seeing each other more often.

Considering this is the norm now, families generally not living next to each other, and probably lots across city and suburbs and farther, as people get older, I know I'd love to have this convenience.
Definitely! And there are people besides the elderly who can't drive, e.g. people with epilepsy.

I82start, are you from the New York City metro area? The term "rubbernecking" is pretty specific geographically. There's an online quiz posted by the New York Times that determines your region of origin by asking you about the idioms you use.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by l82start » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:57 am

nope not from the NY area, but i have spent a couple years on the east coast..i don't know what my idioms would say about where i am from. i have lived in several parts of the country and have picked up bits from all over ... i still sometimes call fizzy sugar drinks "soda pop" :D
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Xan » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:36 am

I've never had much to do with NYC or the east coast, and I'd say "rubbernecking". For what it's worth.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:25 am

Around the Chicago area it is called a "Gaper's Delay"
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by l82start » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:44 am

you are right the problem wont go away until there are either a majority of driver-less cars or the driver-less cars organize themselves to be moving together in a dedicated lane/lanes.. but the ability to see stop and go traffic developing and switch the auto driver on, and say "oh well i am in for a slow stretch, i will kick back and let the car deal with it", would at least end the frustration...

i really have no idea how well software could handle all the unexpected and tough to recognize hazards on roads, pot holes mattresses, people on the shoulder to close to traffic etc. it all seems a bit sci-fi to me, but there does seem to be growing confidence by the people involved that it can be done...
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by dualstow » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:28 pm

l82start wrote:i really have no idea how well software could handle all the unexpected and tough to recognize hazards on roads, pot holes mattresses, people on the shoulder to close to traffic etc. it all seems a bit sci-fi to me, but there does seem to be growing confidence by the people involved that it can be done...
A lot of that has already been done and is sci-non-fi. There are "campuses" where these cars practice with mannequins and things suddenly thrown in their path. The latest place I read about it was Popular Science (print version).
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:43 pm

I am an EE, and I always make sure I occasionally sit back and marvel at things like Ethernet, and how all the data is being passed around to literally billions of locations all the time and it all makes it there and gets there fast.

Also, the computer you're working on likely has multiple cores, each running billions of operations a second.

Wasn't that long ago video conferencing was state of the art, requiring very expensive dedicated equipment. You can do better now with even a low end phone.

Facial recognition, voice recognition -- I always wanted Adama's computer on Battlestar Galactica. Now I have it in my pocket and it works nearly 100% correctly.To see the phone/Google listen to a sentence, see it completely wrong and then it figures out the context and fixes in in 1/4 second -- amazing.

It is hard to imagine all this with a puny human brain, but figuring a mattress on the side of the road or a pot hole is child's play to these processors.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Benko » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:29 pm

Simple question: when self driving cars are approved is there anyone reading this who would not let their child/mother ride in one the next day? Assuming you have a child or like your mother.

I don't download software upgrades immediately, and I personally would not.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by dualstow » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:33 pm

You mean mixed in with mortal drivers, or with all cars on the road self-driving?
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Benko » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:27 pm

Desert wrote: Oh, definitely. I'd wait for the bugzilla list to be cut in half before climbing in one of these things. Unfortunately, I suppose we'll be sharing the road with early adopters... might not be much worse than some of the people out there driving today though.
The point is that we know (mostly) what kinds of silly things humans do when driving and have learned to compensate to avoid them. No one has any idea what kinds of things these cars will do when they act up.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by dualstow » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:33 pm

Compensate?

A friend of the family was crippled by a drunk driver who swerved across the middle. My wife and I were rear-ended (but not hurt) by a girl who was using her Blackberry. I was knocked down by a dude in a van as I walked across an intersection. He looked left and right, but apparently forgot straight ahead.

I'll take my chances with a robotic sensor that has nothing else on its mind.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Benko » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:40 pm

dualstow,

Fair enough. You make a good point about problems with human drivers.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by dualstow » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:13 am

Thanks.
And I agree that there are many, many kinks to be worked out before the general public will feel safe, or even be safe, with self-driving cars. We probably expect something like Windows ME and blue screens of death, but I'm hoping we get something closer to mission critical quality, like airplanes must have.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:36 am

I wonder what will happen to those who like driving motorcycles? I don't imagine those will ever willingly become self driving or even possible in that form factor.

In my work experience, I have done consumer, military, medical and automotive tech, and it seems to me the longest development and test cycles are generally automotive ones.

I would have high confidence anything put out in cars is pretty well tested. Sure, you will run into corner cases, which will hopefully not be deadly.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by dualstow » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:25 am

Cortopassi wrote:I wonder what will happen to those who like driving motorcycles?
That's a good question. We've got to make room for bikes and pedestrians, too. Not sure where motorcycles will fit in.
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Re: Self Driving Cars Article

Post by dualstow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:34 am

I'm a bit disappointing that no one has referenced Rush's Red Barchetta.
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