Help get me reduce some weight

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Cortopassi
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Cortopassi » Sat May 19, 2018 11:43 am

One other thing, Xan(??) can the original post title be put into good English? Drives me nuts every time I see this! :D
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Cortopassi » Sat May 19, 2018 3:14 pm

Desert wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 12:43 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:41 am
I am lo-carb and keto most of the time. When I am strict, I absolutely lose weight. The more fat I have in my diet, the more I lose.

I almost never eat bread, pasta, rice, other grains.

My downfall is not that I don't like the selection on lo-carb/keto, it's that I always revert back to poor eating habits.

My range for years is 190-200 (at the top end right now with many birthdays, and upcoming grad parties). I will strict lo-carb it for a few weeks, and get near that low end. Then, invariably, there is a party, or a bag of chips or something that I'll have, and I start a slow climb back up. Once a couple pairs of pants don't fit nicely anymore, I will jump back on and go down.

But physically, even on really strict keto, I always plateau. I have yet to be able to break 189 in the past 10 years. I have this mental image of being able to get to 180, just to see, but something always halts it at right around 190.

Also, there is a good correlation for me with less joint issues and better sleep at the low end. You'd think with those benefits, it would be easy to keep on it. But there's always something.
Interesting ... my range has been about 10 lbs heavier than yours, but the pattern is similar. For reference, do you remember what you weighed in your mid 20's?

I was thinner than I wanted to be back then, at around 165 to 170. But I would like to get down to 175 to 180.
I maxed out in high school during football, sure, sure, SOME of it was muscle, maybe, at about 245. In my 20s, I was generally around 210. 30s to now (51, 6' 3") has been the 190 to 200 range.
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Re: Help me to reduce my weight

Post by Cortopassi » Sat May 19, 2018 3:17 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 12:49 pm
Corto,
I know you bike a lot, but have you tried adding some weight training? I don't lift for size, but lower weight with 20 or so reps to keep tone and avoid injuring my back. More muscle will help you burn more calories when at rest.

btw: You can edit the subject line when you post
My wife does Crossfit. She had always had rail thin arms, and now has definition and is always talking about working out.

I walk and bike. I just generally do no like weightlifting, unless it is hauling cut branches, bag of soil, etc, around the yard. I can't lift weights just to lift weights.

As to the waist size of pants, I agree. A 36 now, which I wear, depending on the mfg is nicely tight to really loose.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat May 19, 2018 7:03 pm

Really?

Nothing works better than just stop eating.

That's it. No other thinking required. For most people, you will lose about 2/3 pound per day of not eating. There is nothing else to worry about. If you are overweight, then it only means you have an excess of food to live off of. You will be full on carnivore/ketogenic while you are not eating. Great! That is the best source of fuel for your body.

Anyone that tries to sell you some other scheme than "Not eating" either has an agenda or is afraid to address science.

The great thing about not-eating is that you won't die.

You will lose weight. (Both fat and muscle)
Sick tissues will be sacrificed at a higher priority than healthy/necessary tissues.

You will not get "Ripped" or look healthy - but you will survive just fine and a followup of healthy eating, strength work and sunshine will have you looking great in a few weeks.

Seriously, there is no better program. Any diet that is a weight loss diet relies on stored fat and protein. There is no better diet than not eating. Pure fat and protein. In exactly the right proportions.

Mark
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by eufo » Sun May 20, 2018 8:07 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:03 pm
Nothing works better than just stop eating.
I agree with you 100%.

The problem most people have who are overweight is that they've adjusted their bodies to expect regular intakes of easily accessible energy. Once hooked on sugars and starchy carbohydrates, it's EXTREMELY difficult to stop eating. The body will CRAVE food. The hunger will eventually drive the person to consume anything they can find.

The easiest way to get your body ready to consume its own fat stores is to start off lowering your carbohydrate intake. Proteins are good, but eating fat is even better. Get your body used to consuming fat and eventually it will be fully ready to convert fat stores instead of demanding you go eat something. Once you're at this stage, it's easy to skip a meal... then two... then skip a day... two. Intermittent fasting is easy to accomplish at this point and that's when you really see results.

I believe this kind of no-nonsense dieting is generally dismissed because it doesn't support a strong economy of people buying more and more food.

For myself, I generally fast all weekend and have lunches (with occasional breakfasts or dinners, never both) during the week for social reasons. For lunches I opt for as low carb as the menu will allow.
Don't agree with me too strongly or I'm going to change my mind
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Cortopassi » Sun May 20, 2018 9:38 am

eufo wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:07 am
Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:03 pm
Nothing works better than just stop eating.
I agree with you 100%.

The problem most people have who are overweight is that they've adjusted their bodies to expect regular intakes of easily accessible energy. Once hooked on sugars and starchy carbohydrates, it's EXTREMELY difficult to stop eating. The body will CRAVE food. The hunger will eventually drive the person to consume anything they can find.

The easiest way to get your body ready to consume its own fat stores is to start off lowering your carbohydrate intake. Proteins are good, but eating fat is even better. Get your body used to consuming fat and eventually it will be fully ready to convert fat stores instead of demanding you go eat something. Once you're at this stage, it's easy to skip a meal... then two... then skip a day... two. Intermittent fasting is easy to accomplish at this point and that's when you really see results.

I believe this kind of no-nonsense dieting is generally dismissed because it doesn't support a strong economy of people buying more and more food.

For myself, I generally fast all weekend and have lunches (with occasional breakfasts or dinners, never both) during the week for social reasons. For lunches I opt for as low carb as the menu will allow.
I do IF daily, but it is not a long one... only about 12 hours (I never eat breakfast).

I'm going to try a few days with just dinners (and a coffee with heavy cream in the morning -- debates on whether 100% fat breaks the fast), and still lo carb and see how things go. I'm the type of person who is never really hungry anyway. This always seems hard to explain to people, my daughter for example will sit down to dinner and say "I'm starving," and I never feel that way. I like eating, but never OMG I have to eat. So IF has never been a problem.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by l82start » Sun May 20, 2018 10:02 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:41 am
I am lo-carb and keto most of the time. When I am strict, I absolutely lose weight. The more fat I have in my diet, the more I lose.

I almost never eat bread, pasta, rice, other grains.

My downfall is not that I don't like the selection on lo-carb/keto, it's that I always revert back to poor eating habits.

My range for years is 190-200 (at the top end right now with many birthdays, and upcoming grad parties). I will strict lo-carb it for a few weeks, and get near that low end. Then, invariably, there is a party, or a bag of chips or something that I'll have, and I start a slow climb back up. Once a couple pairs of pants don't fit nicely anymore, I will jump back on and go down.

But physically, even on really strict keto, I always plateau. I have yet to be able to break 189 in the past 10 years. I have this mental image of being able to get to 180, just to see, but something always halts it at right around 190.

Also, there is a good correlation for me with less joint issues and better sleep at the low end. You'd think with those benefits, it would be easy to keep on it. But there's always something.
even with keto or low carb you will hit plateaus, I went through the same experience trying to drop weight, what worked best for me was accepting the plateau and breaking my keto low carb diet strategically,
if I blew it and had a junk food craving /binge I would jump back into hard keto for a bit to make up for it, if I was just adding some carbs or having minor junk food treats, I would add in small quantities and keep an eye on the scale, if my weight started climbing beyond the normal few day fluctuation I would cut back. One of the best advantages of keto diets is getting a metabolism reset, I found that if I followed the above pattern my system would reset and food that would cause additional weight gain at my former heavy weight would no longer cause gain at my new stable plateau weight. it took some time to go the full distance starting with some impressive quick losses then a plateau a gradual drop of 5 to 10 lbs another plateau and so on till I hit a new stable at my near ideal weight..
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Maddy » Sun May 20, 2018 10:30 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:03 pm
Nothing works better than just stop eating.
If I did that, I'd be flat-on-my-back exhausted, unable to accomplish anything. Going low carb had me nearly non-functional for three to four weeks, at which point things settled down and I felt better than I had in a long time. But that transitional few weeks was like being in drug withdrawal.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun May 20, 2018 10:33 am

eufo wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:07 am
The easiest way to get your body ready to consume its own fat stores is to start off lowering your carbohydrate intake. Proteins are good, but eating fat is even better. Get your body used to consuming fat and eventually it will be fully ready to convert fat stores instead of demanding you go eat something.
False (good advice, but what you wrote is not true). Eating fats in place of carhohydrates does mean that your body is using fat as the main energy source, but you are only going to be losing BODY FAT if you eat less than your maintenance calorie level. And if you were doing that while eating carbs, you'd be losing body fat at that point as well, assuming equal protein and EFAs.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by eufo » Sun May 20, 2018 10:47 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 10:33 am
eufo wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:07 am
The easiest way to get your body ready to consume its own fat stores is to start off lowering your carbohydrate intake. Proteins are good, but eating fat is even better. Get your body used to consuming fat and eventually it will be fully ready to convert fat stores instead of demanding you go eat something.
False (good advice, but what you wrote is not true). Eating fats in place of carhohydrates does mean that your body is using fat as the main energy source, but you are only going to be losing BODY FAT if you eat less than your maintenance calorie level. And if you were doing that while eating carbs, you'd be losing body fat at that point as well, assuming equal protein and EFAs.
What I said isn't false, but maybe not complete. I'm not advocating a high calorie diet, just one that is made up of fats and some protein.

I also nibble on macadamias sometimes and for lunch I try to get green veggies.
Don't agree with me too strongly or I'm going to change my mind
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Maddy » Sun May 20, 2018 11:33 am

I don't understand the biochemistry, but what I've read from seemingly reliable sources is that going to a low-carb, high-fat diet--regardless of the amount of calories consumed--effectuates a switch in the body's preferred metabolic pathway. At some point, yes, you do have to consume a net negative in calories to lose weight, but the point, I think, is that it's a whole lot easier (in fact, effortless) when your body has become accustomed to using ketone bodies for energy and is not behaving like a crazed addict screaming for sugars and carbs.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Cortopassi » Sun May 20, 2018 2:33 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:33 am
I don't understand the biochemistry, but what I've read from seemingly reliable sources is that going to a low-carb, high-fat diet--regardless of the amount of calories consumed--effectuates a switch in the body's preferred metabolic pathway. At some point, yes, you do have to consume a net negative in calories to lose weight, but the point, I think, is that it's a whole lot easier (in fact, effortless) when your body has become accustomed to using ketone bodies for energy and is not behaving like a crazed addict screaming for sugars and carbs.
That’s probably the best way to put it!
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun May 20, 2018 3:37 pm

eufo wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 10:47 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 10:33 am
eufo wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:07 am
The easiest way to get your body ready to consume its own fat stores is to start off lowering your carbohydrate intake. Proteins are good, but eating fat is even better. Get your body used to consuming fat and eventually it will be fully ready to convert fat stores instead of demanding you go eat something.
False (good advice, but what you wrote is not true). Eating fats in place of carhohydrates does mean that your body is using fat as the main energy source, but you are only going to be losing BODY FAT if you eat less than your maintenance calorie level. And if you were doing that while eating carbs, you'd be losing body fat at that point as well, assuming equal protein and EFAs.
What I said isn't false, but maybe not complete. I'm not advocating a high calorie diet, just one that is made up of fats and some protein.

I also nibble on macadamias sometimes and for lunch I try to get green veggies.
You're nibbling, I'm quibbling.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by mrbk2fi » Tue May 22, 2018 1:19 pm

I have been following NSNG f(No Sugar, No Grain) for almost a year. I have found it to be very filling, I'm almost never hungry, and I stay thin.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Cortopassi » Sat May 26, 2018 10:11 am

Update:

I've been doing IF for 7 days now, other than 2 coffees with some heavy cream in the morning, I've been eating within a 2-3 hour window, so effectively a 20+ hour fast.

--I went from 200 to current 193.8
--I understand again what hunger is. Around 2-3PM in the afternoons, my stomach is not happy and I start thinking about dinner
--Food at dinner has been much more tasty. Found myself saying "damn this is good" quite a lot
--Occasional lightheadedness and racing pulse

Overall, for me, it is a bit too long. The results are good, and quick, but I think if I took a portion of the calories I eat at dinner and put them toward lunch, I'd feel better overall.

There is little doubt that this way, where I am eating less calories (and lo-carb), vs. prior attempts, where I have simply been assuming lo-carb will get the weight off naturally, but not cutting calories, are different. In my normal lo-carb runs, I would just cut out nearly 100% of carbs, but always replacing with a spoon of peanut butter here, one there, another over here...so I wasn't consuming as many carbs, but overall probably consuming more calories.

With this long IF, hard to get enough calories in during the timeframe and the weight is coming off a lot faster.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by moda0306 » Sun May 27, 2018 7:34 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 10:11 am
Update:

I've been doing IF for 7 days now, other than 2 coffees with some heavy cream in the morning, I've been eating within a 2-3 hour window, so effectively a 20+ hour fast.

--I went from 200 to current 193.8
--I understand again what hunger is. Around 2-3PM in the afternoons, my stomach is not happy and I start thinking about dinner
--Food at dinner has been much more tasty. Found myself saying "damn this is good" quite a lot
--Occasional lightheadedness and racing pulse

Overall, for me, it is a bit too long. The results are good, and quick, but I think if I took a portion of the calories I eat at dinner and put them toward lunch, I'd feel better overall.

There is little doubt that this way, where I am eating less calories (and lo-carb), vs. prior attempts, where I have simply been assuming lo-carb will get the weight off naturally, but not cutting calories, are different. In my normal lo-carb runs, I would just cut out nearly 100% of carbs, but always replacing with a spoon of peanut butter here, one there, another over here...so I wasn't consuming as many carbs, but overall probably consuming more calories.

With this long IF, hard to get enough calories in during the timeframe and the weight is coming off a lot faster.
I friggin love it. I lost 30+ lbs using that and a few other inputs.

The best is when you get to a point where you are sharper and more energetic. Luckily, I fell into this very quickly. Once I started pushing through that "hungry zone" and piercing through the other side I thought I'd discovered a new universe.

I've gotten to the point where I can do steady state low intensity cardio (heart rate 130-ish or lower) fasted and still feel great. Only when I have to do something vigorous do I need to make sure I've got sugar in me.

Our bodies are built for this. It's a shame we coddle ourselves so much and think that a missed meal is so unhealthy or that breakfast is vital.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by WiseOne » Sun May 27, 2018 8:45 am

Just FYI....studies on IF show benefits for men, but not for women.

It kind of makes sense that men and women have different metabolisms, based on our evolution as hunter-gatherers. Men were the ones going on long hunts, where they might not eat for long periods, while women did the gathering which meant small amounts of food being available more frequently. I wonder if the feminine version of IF is to do exactly the opposite: eat frequently but in small amounts.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by moda0306 » Sun May 27, 2018 9:02 am

WiseOne wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:45 am
Just FYI....studies on IF show benefits for men, but not for women.

It kind of makes sense that men and women have different metabolisms, based on our evolution as hunter-gatherers. Men were the ones going on long hunts, where they might not eat for long periods, while women did the gathering which meant small amounts of food being available more frequently. I wonder if the feminine version of IF is to do exactly the opposite: eat frequently but in small amounts.
I've heard of many instances of women having success with intermittent fasting. I think they just need to be more careful with it due to some of their hormonal sensitivities to a change in metabolic systems at work.

That probably sounded like mansplaining didn't it. ???
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun May 27, 2018 2:00 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:45 am
Just FYI....studies on IF show benefits for men, but not for women.

It kind of makes sense that men and women have different metabolisms, based on our evolution as hunter-gatherers. Men were the ones going on long hunts, where they might not eat for long periods, while women did the gathering which meant small amounts of food being available more frequently. I wonder if the feminine version of IF is to do exactly the opposite: eat frequently but in small amounts.
I remember Martin Berkhan saying his female clients were more successful with a 14 hour fasting window, vs an 18 hour one for males.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu May 31, 2018 12:32 pm

I lost about 4 pounds in the last two weeks without even trying to diet.

My secret? We were on a long road trip and often didn't have a regular meal other than breakfast.

I'm not sure how generalizable it is, but there's an anecdotal point for you.
Last edited by Libertarian666 on Thu May 31, 2018 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Cortopassi » Thu May 31, 2018 3:58 pm

I always lose weight on vacations. Eating isn't a priority, except for a nice dinner, and otherwise walking everywhere.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:00 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:45 am
Just FYI....studies on IF show benefits for men, but not for women.

It kind of makes sense that men and women have different metabolisms, based on our evolution as hunter-gatherers. Men were the ones going on long hunts, where they might not eat for long periods, while women did the gathering which meant small amounts of food being available more frequently. I wonder if the feminine version of IF is to do exactly the opposite: eat frequently but in small amounts.
I totally wish that there were more studies on this. Anecdotally - I have observed the same. Big difference between male and female fasting. My own opinion / experience is that fasting is a great method for manipulating my (male) hormones - IGF1, HGF and on and on and on... and that hormones are powerful things. And, orthogonally - that the stimulus, response, adaptation is much different for men versus women. But I don't have absolute experience in the difference.

For me, I have found that alternate day eating is *much* easier than one meal a day. Either I am going to eat today or not. No big deal. And after about 30 hours of not eating, lots of good things happen to my hormones. Good, measurable effects on weight / strength training, leanness and other important old guy metrics. But to WiseOne's point (and to everything I have seen in real life) this doesn't apply one to one for women. I think that there must still be some positive point on the curve between eating and not eating - but no good science to say where. So... Let's see some more data, anecdotes or even, (god forbid) science.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Kbg » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:51 pm

For IF i think the best fast is the one you like best and can do. Supposedly one needs 16-18 hours for positive effects. My personal opinion on all this diet stuff is the basic physics of a calorie/energy. To lose weight there needs to be an energy deficit, one should pursue the method most effective for them to achieve an energy deficit that they can stick to over a long period of time...most of my reading as of late seems to indicate that science is finally coming around to the conclusion that achieving the correct physics is the key to weight loss and there are many paths available for that. (As opposed to science on good nutrition which seems to be a never ending churn of conflicting information.)

For me personally...if it wasn't for the social/family aspect of food, breakfast and lunch followed by nothing with calories until the next morning works very well...especially when combined with late in the day/evening exercise.
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by boglerdude » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 am

Calories eaten - calories burned - calories excreted

Untreated diabetics pee sugar. Insulin causes cells to absorb sugar from the blood. You can lower insulin levels by minimizing sugar and carbs (which break down to sugar)

I eat once a day before bed, basically just a bowl of beans with dark vegetables, and hot sauce or salad dressing
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Re: Help get me reduce some weight

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:53 am

boglerdude wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 am
Calories eaten - calories burned - calories excreted

Untreated diabetics pee sugar. Insulin causes cells to absorb sugar from the blood. You can lower insulin levels by minimizing sugar and carbs (which break down to sugar)

I eat once a day before bed, basically just a bowl of beans with dark vegetables, and hot sauce or salad dressing
Remind me not to go out to eat with you. :P
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