Has everyone gone insane?

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Maddy
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by Maddy » Thu May 18, 2017 7:57 am

Where, in God's name, is Jeff Sessions? The Germans are at the border.

And why Trump's irrational fixation on the prosecution of Julian Assange--the one man who could put this all to a decisive end?
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by clacy » Thu May 18, 2017 8:43 am

Welcome to the United Deep States of America

Anyone who doesn't think exactly like the technocrats, media propagandists and spooks in DC is now an enemy of the state.
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by moda0306 » Thu May 18, 2017 8:47 am

Maddy wrote:Where, in God's name, is Jeff Sessions? The Germans are at the border.
Huh? What are you implying he should do?

And in spite of the language of your article, there is no "war." That's a word carnival-barkers use for click-bait when not describing actual war. Any article that refers to "the left" as a uniquely nefarious force in as sloppy detail as the one you linked to as many times as it did isn't really worth reading IMO. It's just partisan trash. Of course that's my take (not an objective fact, as so many try to make their subjective, loaded opinions appear to be)... I see the establishment left and the snowflake hard Antifa left to be totally different animals, neither of which are a unique threat, and to the degree they are, it's the establishment left and their threats to civil liberties and support of permanent war, surveillance, etc. The brick-thrower-left will never gain a critical mass of influence. They serve more as a distraction than anything.

But our level of civic unrest appears to be far from we experienced in the late 60's & early 70's.
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by Maddy » Thu May 18, 2017 10:30 am

moda0306 wrote:
Maddy wrote:Where, in God's name, is Jeff Sessions? The Germans are at the border.
Huh? What are you implying he should do?
I can think of seven or eight treason/corruption/obstruction of justice cases that are ripe for prosecution. We all know what they are.
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by clacy » Thu May 18, 2017 10:37 am

Dennis Kucinish weighing in on the dangerous state of affairs currently with the Deep State waging an internal war on Trump....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ithin.html


The Deep State (which Bush 41 built and Bush 43/Clinton/Obama grew exponentially) is the biggest existential threat to our country as we know it since the fall of the USSR.
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by moda0306 » Thu May 18, 2017 10:43 am

clacy wrote:Dennis Kucinish weighing in on the dangerous state of affairs currently with the Deep State waging an internal war on Trump....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ithin.html


The Deep State (which Bush 41 built and Bush 43/Clinton/Obama grew exponentially) is the biggest existential threat to our country as we know it since the fall of the USSR.
Woah... while I agree completely with that general statement, the Deep State arguably existed post-WWII. It just didn't have a good pretext after the end of the Cold War.

If you read up on the shady stuff that the CIA was pulling pretty much since the dawn of its existence, it is downright chilling.
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by Jack Jones » Thu May 18, 2017 10:46 am

clacy wrote:Welcome to the United Deep States of America

Anyone who doesn't think exactly like the technocrats, media propagandists and spooks in DC is now an enemy of the state.
Reminds me of this quote I read the other day:
He’s in Washington for a meeting with Larry Summers, the former US treasury secretary and Obama confidant. Summers asks him point blank: do you want to be on the inside or the outside? “Outsiders prioritise their freedom to speak their version of the truth. The price is that they are ignored by the insiders, who make the important decisions,” Summers warns.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... cal-memoir

Interestingly, a similar statement was attributed to Summers here:

http://billmoyers.com/2014/09/05/i-had-been-warned/

If this isn't the deep state declaring its existence, I don't know what is.
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by Maddy » Thu May 18, 2017 11:00 am

Jack Jones wrote: If this isn't the deep state declaring its existence, I don't know what is.
The Deep State has been an organized force for many decades, as evidenced by the large number of books on my shelf authored in the '40s and '50s which describe in considerable detail its stepwise plan for transforming this country. Its agenda has never been particularly secret, but its movements have always been slow, methodical, and exceptionally discrete. It's only been in the last month or so that they've come to the fore and made known that they are embedded in every branch of government, that they control everything, and that they are above the law.

I can only speculate as to what has changed. Has the new generation of elites simply fallen victim to the same narcissism, impulsivity, and inability to delay gratification that has infected the rest of the country? Or are they running scared, perceiving that their agenda and/or power structure is at stake? Whatever the motivation, it does indeed appear that they've fast-forwarded to the end game.
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by Jack Jones » Fri May 19, 2017 1:34 pm

Maddy wrote: The Deep State has been an organized force for many decades, as evidenced by the large number of books on my shelf authored in the '40s and '50s which describe in considerable detail its stepwise plan for transforming this country.
Any that you would recommend?
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by Maddy » Fri May 19, 2017 5:13 pm

Jack Jones wrote: Any that you would recommend?
I'm not aware of a single book from that early era that sums it all up neatly. It really wouldn't be until the last few years that there's been any retrospective, comprehensive treatment of the subject. That said, you might take a look at the books by Cleon Skousen, a former FBI agent, and perhaps Samuel P. Huntington and C. Wright mills ("The Power Elite").

Oh, also "The Liberal Establishment" by Stanton Evans.
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by moda0306 » Sat May 20, 2017 11:37 am

technovelist wrote:I can't remember anything quite as insane as this witch hunt for something, anything, that they can pin on Trump to get him out of the Presidency. No, it's not at all like Watergate, because in that case it was abundantly clear that there had in fact been a coverup and obstruction of justice.

Of course it is theoretically possible that something like that has been going on in the Trump administration, but so far there is no, zero, nada, zilch, zip, evidence of anything even remotely corrupt.

Actually, I don't think the general public is buying the whole "Russiagate" story. I know the Trump voters are still happy that they voted for him, and the latest polls (done a week ago, to be sure), indicate that if the election had been held again, he would have beaten Hillary again.

So what are those pushing impeachment actually after, a civil war?
tech,

Can you provide us with a link or source of analysis for your conclusion that "so far there is no, zero, nada, zilch, zip, evidence of anything even remotely corrupt."

I don't follow the "mainstream" press, but nobody that I've read or heard in the collections of articles or analysis comes anywhere close to making that type of a claim of innocence. Many warn of exaggeration or hypocrisy from certain players on the left, but none go so far as to conclude that there is NO evidence of corruption... simply that there's lots of it, an independent investigation needs to be done, and we should be careful not to buy the narrative of establishment democrat/media narratives that parrot unproven leaks as facts.

I've literally heard from NOBODY that isn't a bombastic Trump-hack that carries that narrative you just laid out.

Further, the establishment is well-embedded in the Trump admin. It's like the worst of both worlds. All the negatives of having a rambling buffoon in the most powerful position in the world, but none of the destabilizing benefits to the status-quo that might allow newer-better ideas to float to the top as institutional inertia loosens its boot-grip on our necks.
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Re: Has everyone gone insane?

Post by Maddy » Sat May 20, 2017 12:26 pm

moda0306 wrote: Can you provide us with a link or source of analysis for your conclusion that "so far there is no, zero, nada, zilch, zip, evidence of anything even remotely corrupt."
Whoa. . . You're asking for proof that there is no evidence of corruption?

Has the burden of production been turned completely on its head? What is the legal standard of guilt now--a boldly asserted allegation that cannot be convincingly proven to be false? This is exactly the thing that the article I posted earlier was condemning: "flexible" logic and a results-oriented ideology that is devoid of principle.

Hopefully I'm misunderstanding, but I doubt it in light of a radio program just yesterday where the (faux conservative) host kept hammering on the question, "Can you [any member of the listening audience] say with absolute certainty that there was no collusion with Russia?" I had to turn the radio off and go swing an axe for a while.
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