The retirement crisis - yet another study

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3149
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by sophie » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:26 am

Almost one-quarter of workers said they and their spouse combined have less than $1,000 saved for retirement, according to a report from the Employee Benefit Research Institute. Nearly half of everyone surveyed said they had less than $25,000.
Sure, $25,000 can sound like a lot. But it's a reasonable goal to have that much stashed away by the time you're 30 years old.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/21/retirem ... index.html

My emphasis.
User avatar
pugchief
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2977
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Location: suburbs of Chicago, IL

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by pugchief » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:57 am

sophie wrote:
Almost one-quarter of workers said they and their spouse combined have less than $1,000 saved for retirement, according to a report from the Employee Benefit Research Institute. Nearly half of everyone surveyed said they had less than $25,000.
Sure, $25,000 can sound like a lot. But it's a reasonable goal to have that much stashed away by the time you're 30 years old.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/21/retirem ... index.html

My emphasis.
You do realize that, one way or another, the people on this board and others like them, who saved diligently for a lifetime will be called on [at gunpoint] to bail these people out? It may be hidden/stealth, but you will do it.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by Maddy » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:14 am

pugchief wrote:You do realize that, one way or another, the people on this board and others like them, who saved diligently for a lifetime will be called on [at gunpoint] to bail these people out? It may be hidden/stealth, but you will do it.
It's inevitable. Which is why it may make sense to aim for the mean.
User avatar
technovelist
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4807
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by technovelist » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:15 am

pugchief wrote:
sophie wrote:
Almost one-quarter of workers said they and their spouse combined have less than $1,000 saved for retirement, according to a report from the Employee Benefit Research Institute. Nearly half of everyone surveyed said they had less than $25,000.
Sure, $25,000 can sound like a lot. But it's a reasonable goal to have that much stashed away by the time you're 30 years old.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/21/retirem ... index.html

My emphasis.
You do realize that, one way or another, the people on this board and others like them, who saved diligently for a lifetime will be called on [at gunpoint] to bail these people out? It may be hidden/stealth, but you will do it.
It will be rather hard to steal my savings by stealth, since they aren't in the bond or stock markets, nor are they particularly dependent on the US "dollar".

They can certainly steal them at gunpoint, but that tends to get people riled up, so they prefer the indirect ways, which won't work on me.
User avatar
technovelist
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4807
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by technovelist » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:16 am

Maddy wrote:
pugchief wrote:You do realize that, one way or another, the people on this board and others like them, who saved diligently for a lifetime will be called on [at gunpoint] to bail these people out? It may be hidden/stealth, but you will do it.
It's inevitable. Which is why it may make sense to aim for the mean.
What does that mean (no pun intended)?
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2283
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by Xan » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:16 am

I think she means to aim to be as wealthy as the average person, rather than much more wealthy or much less wealthy. Getting too wealthy makes you a target. May as well spend it and have fun.
User avatar
technovelist
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4807
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by technovelist » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:17 am

Xan wrote:I think she means to aim to be as wealthy as the average person, rather than much more wealthy or much less wealthy. Getting too wealthy makes you a target. May as well spend it and have fun.
That would be the median, not the mean.

Which would be considerably lower than the amount needed to have any reasonable retirement income.
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3149
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by sophie » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:07 am

technovelist wrote:
pugchief wrote:
You do realize that, one way or another, the people on this board and others like them, who saved diligently for a lifetime will be called on [at gunpoint] to bail these people out? It may be hidden/stealth, but you will do it.
It will be rather hard to steal my savings by stealth, since they aren't in the bond or stock markets, nor are they particularly dependent on the US "dollar".

They can certainly steal them at gunpoint, but that tends to get people riled up, so they prefer the indirect ways, which won't work on me.
Very few people follow the technovelist formula, but this is one of the situations Harry Browne had in mind when he recommended holding part of your wealth in gold. I also foresee something coming down the pike. It may be as simple as an increase in FICA taxes, or it could involve means-testing for Social Security benefits that takes both income and net worth into account, or it may be as in-your-face as a one-time wealth tax on retirement accounts.
Jack Jones
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:12 pm

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by Jack Jones » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:37 am

sophie wrote:or it may be as in-your-face as a one-time wealth tax on retirement accounts.
This scares me. The notion that it's just to take money from the wealthy to give to the less fortunate is almost not even up for debate anymore. It seems to be a core belief held by liberals I know.

So, now that we all agree that wealth redistribution is a good thing, the next step is to redefine what it means to be wealthy. The author of this piece felt the need to point out that $25,000 in retirement savings isn't actually a lot. How might readers classify someone with $1,000,000 in retirement savings?

Image
tennpaga
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3126
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by tennpaga » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:05 am

pugchief wrote:
sophie wrote:
Almost one-quarter of workers said they and their spouse combined have less than $1,000 saved for retirement, according to a report from the Employee Benefit Research Institute. Nearly half of everyone surveyed said they had less than $25,000.
Sure, $25,000 can sound like a lot. But it's a reasonable goal to have that much stashed away by the time you're 30 years old.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/21/retirem ... index.html
You do realize that, one way or another, the people on this board and others like them, who saved diligently for a lifetime will be called on [at gunpoint] to bail these people out? It may be hidden/stealth, but you will do it.
Another option would be something like a Citizen's Dividend.
Jack Jones
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:12 pm

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by Jack Jones » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:12 am

TennPaGa wrote:Another option would be something like a Citizen's Dividend.
Doesn't that fall under:
pugchief wrote: It may be hidden/stealth, but you will do it.
tennpaga
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3126
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Re: The retirement crisis - yet another study

Post by tennpaga » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:31 am

Jack Jones wrote:
TennPaGa wrote:Another option would be something like a Citizen's Dividend.
Doesn't that fall under:
pugchief wrote: It may be hidden/stealth, but you will do it.
Not necessarily. I'm simply thinking of direct payments to everyone.

Bear in mind that I generally try to focus real resources (both their availability and whether or not they can be easily distributed), and not on money, which is simply a tool.

But, to be honest, I'm not too optimistic that people would be willing to see it that way.
Post Reply