H1-B Visa Abuse

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ochotona
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H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by ochotona » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:08 am

Please write to your Members of Congress to ask for H1-B visa program reforms, to prevent Americans workers from being replaced with low-wage indentured servants on H1-B visas. It's not just in tech, it's in almost every industry. It's here in the Texas oilfield, where the unemployment is rampant, and will be for years. I want our global superstars to be able to remain working at our Houston office, they add great abilities to our global team; not so much an entry-ish level person making $60k.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/01 ... visas.html
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by ochotona » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:47 am

I think the legislation is simple, and transparent, any easy for businesses to comply with. It tells businesses very clearly that they can move their global high potential performers and executives into the USA, but they can't hire non-US nationals as entry level employees, who will displace American entry-level employees or higher-priced workforce veterans. $60k is a very low salary to pay someone who is supposed to be of exceptional talent and abilities with unique skills that can't be found in the existing labor pool.

Pretty much the same argument as Obama's you have to pay a "manager" a truly higher wage, not just "promote" a low-paid hourly worker to "manager" and make them make them work 60+ hours a week with no chance of getting overtime. I'm going to be sorry to see that one go with the new Admin.

Both of these are about discouraging business from gaming the system. They always do, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by WiseOne » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:53 am

The fixed salary is a bandaid and it won't work. In 10 years $130,000 will be the new $60,000 thanks to inflation. Also, $130,000 will effectively be a cap on income for any profession that can make use of H1Bs. Not a good idea to have the government fixing salaries.

Maybe the answer is to turn around the H1B system so that corporations have to make a case that there is a shortage of a specific skill set in order to get permission to allow H1B visas for a fixed number of people with that skill set (just enough to meet the defined shortage). Then, any company can hire from that visa pool. If that sounds difficult to implement, great. It SHOULD be difficult. Highly skilled people seeking to immigrate to the US should come in through one of the employment-based immigration mechanisms (E1, E2, etc). Alternatively, what about simply abolishing the program altogether and streamlining the employment-based system?

By the way I'm glad a Democrat other than Sanders has finally woken up. The H1B program is to middle/upper middle class jobs what illegal immigration is to lower middle/underclass jobs.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by ochotona » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:59 am

WiseOne wrote:Maybe the answer is to turn around the H1B system so that corporations have to make a case that there is a shortage of a specific skill set in order to get permission to allow H1B visas for a fixed number of people with that skill set (just enough to meet the defined shortage). Then, any company can hire from that visa pool. If that sounds difficult to implement, great. It SHOULD be difficult.
Companies face this requirement now, but it's so easy for companies to game it. My employer games it. I see it up close. It's ugly when my unemployed friends call to ask me about a posted job opening at my employer, and I just know it's for an H1-B renewal. It breaks my heart.

I just have to tell them... "Well... just apply... maybe you'll get it... good luck!"

So let's say we want to keep a, oh, let's make up an example, Latvian national here on an H1-B. You just put into the job requirements... "must speak fluent Latvian" or some other nonsense totally specific to that exact individual's exact career history.

No American will be able to displace the Latvian.

No WiseOne, the only way is salary, the invisible hand of economics, and you're right, it should index to inflation.

"There are no Americans to hire!" is B.S. If there aren't any with the exact skills, employers should gin up the training programs they've dismantled over the last generation and train some Americans. Always hiring entry-level-ish people on H1-Bs is just human and higher educational arbitrage. It's disgusting. Maybe Chinese and Indians have some tech skills, but often their communications abilities stink, and those are vital in complex projects. Note: I am ethnic Chinese, born here.
Last edited by ochotona on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by WiseOne » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:21 am

Yes you're right ochotona. I do know about the specific-job game...that's why I thought establishing deficits for an entire field might help - it would require several corporations to band together, and it would be harder to game the system.

Maybe the salary requirement would work if it's not only indexed to inflation, but also as a percentile of salaries for the position overall. Set the H1B minimum to, say, 75th percentile of salaries for each position, with a further increase based on cost of living for the job site.

I found it interesting that specifically the Silicon Valley tech companies that were so up in arm about Trump's immigration ban. There are plenty of other problems with that ban, but it's interesting how it uncovered how much those companies depend on foreign labor from Iran. (assuming the other countries on the list aren't exactly hotbeds of potential tech employees).
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:10 pm

Craig, I'm right with you on the schadenfreude. I'm getting so many feel goods that I am feeling guilty about it.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:07 pm

I Shrugged wrote:Craig, I'm right with you on the schadenfreude. I'm getting so many feel goods that I am feeling guilty about it.
So you are getting tired of winning? Maybe you need this t-shirt!

Image

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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by I Shrugged » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:15 pm

I like it.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by harrymethew » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:00 pm

What is H1 Visa ? I heard about it but confused ..
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by bedraggled » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:25 am

Tech,

Where can that shirt be purchased?
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by ochotona » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:54 pm

POTUS has flip-flopped on H1-B visa abuse.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by MWKXJ » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:51 am

ochotona wrote:Please write to your Members of Congress to ask for H1-B visa program reforms, to prevent Americans workers from being replaced with low-wage indentured servants on H1-B visas. It's not just in tech, it's in almost every industry. It's here in the Texas oilfield, where the unemployment is rampant, and will be for years. I want our global superstars to be able to remain working at our Houston office, they add great abilities to our global team; not so much an entry-ish level person making $60k.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/01 ... visas.html
I recently segwayed out of a somewhat profitable career in IT precisely because of the field's relentless H1-B pressure. The noxious combination of hundreds of millions of IT-degree-milled Bangladeshi (et al) "willing workers", and the unquestioned, unthinking modern zeitgeist heaped up around Lazarus' "The New Colossus", creates an environment akin to 1984's boot stamping on a human face forever. Either there really is a supervillian behind all this, or, if market forces are the driver, money truly is the root of all evil.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by moda0306 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:02 am

MWKXJ wrote:
ochotona wrote:Please write to your Members of Congress to ask for H1-B visa program reforms, to prevent Americans workers from being replaced with low-wage indentured servants on H1-B visas. It's not just in tech, it's in almost every industry. It's here in the Texas oilfield, where the unemployment is rampant, and will be for years. I want our global superstars to be able to remain working at our Houston office, they add great abilities to our global team; not so much an entry-ish level person making $60k.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/01 ... visas.html
I recently segwayed out of a somewhat profitable career in IT precisely because of the field's relentless H1-B pressure. The noxious combination of hundreds of millions of IT-degree-milled Bangladeshi (et al) "willing workers", and the unquestioned, unthinking modern zeitgeist heaped up around Lazarus' "The New Colossus", creates an environment akin to 1984's boot stamping on a human face forever. Either there really is a supervillian behind all this, or, if market forces are the driver, money truly is the root of all evil.
Could you elaborate what you mean by those two ideas (or single if they're supposed to be one idea with two parts)?

Also, what do you mean by "pressure?" Pressure to quit? Move? Take pay cuts? Could you elaborate on that?
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:57 am

MWKXJ wrote:
ochotona wrote:Please write to your Members of Congress to ask for H1-B visa program reforms, to prevent Americans workers from being replaced with low-wage indentured servants on H1-B visas. It's not just in tech, it's in almost every industry. It's here in the Texas oilfield, where the unemployment is rampant, and will be for years. I want our global superstars to be able to remain working at our Houston office, they add great abilities to our global team; not so much an entry-ish level person making $60k.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/01 ... visas.html
I recently segwayed out of a somewhat profitable career in IT precisely because of the field's relentless H1-B pressure. The noxious combination of hundreds of millions of IT-degree-milled Bangladeshi (et al) "willing workers", and the unquestioned, unthinking modern zeitgeist heaped up around Lazarus' "The New Colossus", creates an environment akin to 1984's boot stamping on a human face forever. Either there really is a supervillian behind all this, or, if market forces are the driver, money truly is the root of all evil.
While I'm against H1-B abuse, I still get solicited to apply for programming jobs even though I'm not even looking.

So the effects aren't universal.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by MWKXJ » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:07 pm

moda0306 wrote:Also, what do you mean by "pressure?" Pressure to quit? Move? Take pay cuts? Could you elaborate on that?
If you're genuinely curious: One cost of living increase and no pay raise in eleven years for everyone in our shop (other than senior management), regardless of performance reviews. Frozen specialist positions and simultaneous hiring of de-facto generalist H1-B labor ensures an indentured servant is always on hand to undercut demands for wage increases. Constant pressure for cost cutting by IT management sends more and more services into the cloud, with little consideration given to global location of said service providers. Foreign cloud service providers eating dogfood (hell, perhaps each other) in order to undercut domestic cloud or self-hosted service providers. Ubiquitous English-as-third-language support (even when dealing with domestic blue-chips) makes even the smallest issue unresolvable in a timely manner. Bizarre ethnic chauvanism among the purportedly-humble foreign strikebreakers laced throughout the organization. Blatent ethnic nepotism in hiring once said H1-Bs climb the ranks.
moda0306 wrote:Could you elaborate what you mean by those two ideas (or single if they're supposed to be one idea with two parts)?
Could you explain why one would think the two ideas are *not* related? If a civilization is flooded with the world's desperately clawing and teeming refuse, why wouldn't said civilization devolve into the place from which these people fled?
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by MWKXJ » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:41 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:While I'm against H1-B abuse, I still get solicited to apply for programming jobs even though I'm not even looking.
Same here, though DBA work in my case. The decision to leave was not based on lack of opportunity or offers, but rather, the poisonous culture of IT (H1-B wage undercutting was a large factor, but there were others).

The move wound up being a lateral (though a higher pay range, should raises ever be forthcoming), and was based on the prodding of one of my long time clients. I'm now in a field without scads of "Teach Yourself My Career in 24 Hours" textbooks and CBTs, so the trade is harder to learn, which should protect my family. I now spend the majority of my day conversing with people who actually understand and enjoy speaking English.
Libertarian666 wrote:So the effects aren't universal.
Flyover country here. Not sure if you're in the Bay Area or another IT hub, but out here (and probably most of America) we pray for the privilege to keep our jobs, even while facing furloughs. Anything, rather than have to pack up the family and resettle in rent seeking poverty amid the jibbering, multicultural Star-Wars cantina that is America's metropoles.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:57 pm

MWKXJ wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote:While I'm against H1-B abuse, I still get solicited to apply for programming jobs even though I'm not even looking.
Same here, though DBA work in my case. The decision to leave was not based on lack of opportunity or offers, but rather, the poisonous culture of IT (H1-B wage undercutting was a large factor, but there were others).

The move wound up being a lateral (though a higher pay range, should raises ever be forthcoming), and was based on the prodding of one of my long time clients. I'm now in a field without scads of "Teach Yourself My Career in 24 Hours" textbooks and CBTs, so the trade is harder to learn, which should protect my family. I now spend the majority of my day conversing with people who actually understand and enjoy speaking English.
Libertarian666 wrote:So the effects aren't universal.
Flyover country here. Not sure if you're in the Bay Area or another IT hub, but out here (and probably most of America) we pray for the privilege to keep our jobs, even while facing furloughs. Anything, rather than have to pack up the family and resettle in rent seeking poverty amid the jibbering, multicultural Star-Wars cantina that is America's metropoles.
Flyover here too, 100 miles northeast of Dallas, which is the closest place where there are any tech jobs (about 100 miles from here). I've had several jobs in the Dallas area; since it's too far to commute, I just get an apartment (or hotel, if it's a contract position).

I had to go to Florida for work in the 2000 tech bust, and was there for 18 months before moving back here, but other than that I've been here since 1996.
Last edited by Libertarian666 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: H1-B Visa Abuse

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:58 pm

bedraggled wrote:Tech,

Where can that shirt be purchased?
Oops, sorry, didn't see your message.

It's available from the link I posted already, but here it is again: https://crypto.fashion/products/still-n ... ng-t-shirt
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