Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

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Tyler
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Tyler » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:58 am

dualstow wrote:I love the way the mail app on my ipad mini (ios9) doesn't show the paperclip icon for attachments. And then, when I find a way to reveal it, I love that it prevents me from sending non-photo attachments from the device's own storage, because that's why I shelled out $400 for 64GB. No, I can only send items from the cloud. And, I cannot upload files from storage to the cloud, so it's a bit of a Catch-22 situation.
BTW, you might try Dropbox. I've had good luck getting files on/off my iPad with that.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:02 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:I am able to send a file from my iphone - same ios 10 as an ipad I think. Just sent a numbers spreadsheet to my wife.
Yes, I think saw something about being able to send Numbers and Pages files if I enable iCloud. Did you enable iCloud? I haven't, and I also don't use Numbers or Pages. I have taken a look at both programs, and might use them in the future, but will probably stick with google drive.
I use iCloud, iCloud Drive, Apple Music and iTunes Match to store and retrieve photos, music, documents, and iPhone backups (and used it with an iPad I no longer have). Used to use Dropbox for document storage but for my purposes and storage requirements, the Apple products work seamlessly together for two iPhones and a MacBook Pro. Syncronization among all three Apple devices is practically instantaneous and the Apple services uptime approaches 100% - with, in my opinion, very reasonable cost. Having in essence only Apple as one backup/storage provider simplifies life vs. having several different storage locations - I was always trying to remember what I had stored at which provider. I used to use Microsoft Office products (excel, word, powerpoint) for 10 or 15 years but converted everything to Numbers/Pages/Keynote a couple years ago - again, life is simpler now and the Apple apps met my needs. After a month or two I actually came to prefer Numbers and Pages over Excel and Word - I do not do a lot of really complex stuff. I do not use Keynote much at all. I tried Google drive but never came to appreciate it for some reason.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Pointedstick » Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:40 pm

Staying 100% inside the Apple world is indeed generally a wonderful experience. The problem comes when you need to do just one thing outside the ecosystem. Suddenly you realize nothing works with that one thing:

Your Pages documents aren't readable by anyone else, so you have to convert them imperfectly to MS Word format and back, which garbles the formatting with every conversion.

You decide to start using MS Word or even LibreOffice for better office compatibility, but nothing can read your Pages documents so you need to convert them one by one, and the conditional formatting you entered into your Numbers spreadsheets doesn't convert properly so you need to redo it for every single document.

Then one family member switches to an Android phone, so now your group iMessage conversations can't use iMessage anymore, and it reverts to using text messages, which may be metered for some plans and aren't encrypted.

You decide you don't really like iPhoto anymore but it turns out that iPhoto stored your pictures in an opaque database and it's an enormous pain in the butt to extract them.

You switch to Aperture but Apple cancels the product in a few years and moving over to Lightroom is an even bigger nightmare.

You start to use a Linux computer or an Android tablet, but there's no iCloud client software for your device, so nothing you stored in iCloud syncs to it.

At some point you discover that a bunch of picture files you created 15 years ago are in the .pict format--some archaic Apple-only format that even Apple's own contemporary tools will open, but not export to anything else, so to convert them into a modern format you need to write a horrible shell-script-and-AppleScript nightmare that opens them full screen one-by-one, takes a screenshot, and then replaces the original file with the screenshot, preserving the original timestamp.

Then Apple comes out with a new version of the hardware you use that you just don't like for whatever reason--and you realize you'll be forced to use it anyway once your current equipment eventually stops working.

Etc. This may or may not be autobiographical...
Last edited by Pointedstick on Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:34 pm

Exactly.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by WiseOne » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:36 pm

That HP Spectre is beautiful!!! It is unlikely to be a coincidence that it looks exactly like the Macbook Air. It weighs a few ounces more though.

I sincerely wish there were an open standard for documents, presentations, spreadsheets etc. The fact that I work with people around the world means that I am effectively locked into Microsoft Office documents. There's also a local bit of oddness that is a major determining factor in my OS choice: Windows desktops at my workplace get automatically locked down by IT, but Mac desktops don't. The tradeoff is that I have to buy them on grant funds and take care of all necessary maintenance & repairs, but it is completely worth it. Windows is very frustrating to work with when you don't have admin privileges. Also, my biggest coup has been turning said desktop into a wireless access point, which is indispensable for visiting scholars and students.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:39 pm

WiseOne wrote: Windows desktops at my workplace get automatically locked down by IT, but Mac desktops don't.
Why is that?
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by WiseOne » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:57 pm

dualstow wrote:
WiseOne wrote: Windows desktops at my workplace get automatically locked down by IT, but Mac desktops don't.
Why is that?
Since the last HIPAA bill was passed, hospitals and medical centers have gone insane with security. It's understandable given the multimillion dollar fines that they've been hit with.

However, said hospitals and medical centers have a tendency to understaff and underpay IT. They know about my little kingdom but aren't motivated to do anything about it because it would be a lot of effort for little gain on their part - as long as I'm careful about security, which I am. The only people with Macs are the tech-savvy ones like me (and I realize I pale in comparison to this group, but I'm "savvy" relative to most of the faculty here).
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:15 pm

Ah. So they don't bother with the Macs? Interesting.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Tyler » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:22 pm

Just saw this and immediately thought of this thread.

Image

Because who would want to use a mouse while it's charging?
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:00 pm

hahaha!

Reminds me of a forum years ago in which someone had the gall to ask why you could only resize a window from one of the four corners, and was there some way to unlock resizing from any corner?

The first answer, from a fanboy, was Why would you want to?
Still makes my blood boil when I think about it, even though it's such a small thing.

Things have long since changed, and you can resize from any window corner in late OSX/MacOS.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Tortoise » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:26 pm

I've been told that Apple put the charging port on the underside of that mouse consciously, to enforce the Apple aesthetic. If they put the port anywhere else, lots of people would use the mouse with the charging cord plugged in (maybe even all the time), just like a filthy commoner's mouse :)
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by mukramesh » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:34 pm

My understanding is that the mouse is supposed to get something crazy like 9 hours worth of charge in < 2 minutes. That's less than a coffee/bathroom break. ;D
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Pointedstick » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:14 pm

All of this demands we ask what the point is of having a mouse with a non-removable battery that recharges via a cord. You still need to have the cord with you in case it runs out of juice, and you still need a spare port to plug it into. So why not just use a wired mouse!?

I once had a Razer wireless mouse that recharged from a standard USB cable. I never even added any batteries and just used it as a wired mouse. Much more convenient, and no worrying about running out of juice, ever. It was a totally pointless feature. I suppose port congestion would be a problem if your computer only had one port, though, and it's used for charging!

Image

Solution: don't buy a computer with only one port.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:35 am

I don't buy Apple. I hate Apple. Probably because I worked at Palm, and WE should have been the smartphone for the masses, vs. fading away because of terrible management decisions. Remember when every show on TV had a "Palm Pilot" reference? Now it's iPhone this and that. Grrrr....

I also won't buy a product that I can't replace a battery on, which I think is virtually all Apple products.

My mice last >18 months on 1 or 2 AA batts. My keyboard I have never changed the battery on yet!
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:13 am

Cortopassi wrote:I also won't buy a product that I can't replace a battery on, which I think is virtually all Apple products.
While I am impressed with the battery life of my new ipad mini and ancient iphone, I only use a wired USB mouse (non-apple; it's made of wood) and a wired USB keyboard (Apple).

I can replace the battery in my Android phone (Samsung Siii) which is good, because it is godawful. :)

I guess that's the tradeoff. Apple has great hardware but limits what we users can do with it. Makes me feel like a baby.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:06 pm

Cortopassi wrote:I don't buy Apple. I hate Apple. Probably because I worked at Palm, and WE should have been the smartphone for the masses, vs. fading away because of terrible management decisions. Remember when every show on TV had a "Palm Pilot" reference? Now it's iPhone this and that. Grrrr....

I also won't buy a product that I can't replace a battery on, which I think is virtually all Apple products.

My mice last >18 months on 1 or 2 AA batts. My keyboard I have never changed the battery on yet!
I have a mid-2009 MacBook Pro in which I replaced the battery myself a few months ago. Want to buy it? Make me an offer I can't refuse. ;D
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:26 pm

I hate Apple products too, but beggars can't be choosers: I grab phones in my parents' junk drawer after they're "done with" them. I'm on the iPhone 4 right now. Luckily they moved on to Samsung phones, so those are the next discards! I'm very excited.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Pointedstick » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:18 pm

Haha, I've got a "discard" iPhone 5 right now! ;D
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:40 pm

I've got a Samsung G.... something in the pipeline, otherwise I'd want it!

Oh, the iPhone I have now? It was my mom's. I asked her what was wrong with it that it was in the junk drawer.

"I can't take any more pictures on it!"

The memory was full.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:04 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:Luckily they moved on to Samsung phones, so those are the next discards! I'm very excited.
You might want to get a bomb disposal crew on site first. O0

Seriously, though, I have a Samsung s3 as my only phone with cellular service. It cost me $40 after a giftcard.
I just bought a new battery for it. It's no iPhone, but there are some things about it that are better. Like being able to use ES File Explorer.
Kriegsspiel wrote:I've got a Samsung G.... something in the pipeline, otherwise I'd want it!
Oh, the iPhone I have now? It was my mom's. I asked her what was wrong with it that it was in the junk drawer.
"I can't take any more pictures on it!"
The memory was full.
You cad, help her move the pics to a hard drive! ;D
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:34 pm

dualstow wrote:
Kriegsspiel wrote:Luckily they moved on to Samsung phones, so those are the next discards! I'm very excited.
You might want to get a bomb disposal crew on site first. O0

Seriously, though, I have a Samsung s3 as my only phone with cellular service. It cost me $40 after a giftcard.
I just bought a new battery for it. It's no iPhone, but there are some things about it that are better. Like being able to use ES File Explorer.
NOT the Note. They've had these phones since way before the fires started. I'm gonna be tickled to be able to put my music (and a custom ringtone?) onto my phone. I'm still listening to the same music I listened to about 7 years ago when I loaded my iPhone 3 (relegated to music-only duty after main button failure and screen crack). The iPhone 4 isn't linked to any computer so it has no music on it.
Kriegsspiel wrote:I've got a Samsung G.... something in the pipeline, otherwise I'd want it!
Oh, the iPhone I have now? It was my mom's. I asked her what was wrong with it that it was in the junk drawer.
"I can't take any more pictures on it!"
The memory was full.
You cad, help her move the pics to a hard drive! ;D[/quote]

Hey now, she only has an iPad. I don't have the heart to tell her those have memory limits too :(
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:40 am

wouldn't it be cheaper to get a hard drive instead of another phone?
I know phones are largely subsidized, but how about, say, a single 1-terabyte drive and then back to phone buying?
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Tyler » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:50 am

Tortoise wrote:I've been told that Apple put the charging port on the underside of that mouse consciously, to enforce the Apple aesthetic. If they put the port anywhere else, lots of people would use the mouse with the charging cord plugged in (maybe even all the time), just like a filthy commoner's mouse :)
I'd believe that.

I have a lot of respect for Apple engineers. The quality of the hardware is tremendous. But I personally think the designers jumped the shark a while back and have gotten the form follows function mantra completely backwards. Another favorite lowlight example is the iPod Shuffle with no buttons.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:25 pm

dualstow wrote:wouldn't it be cheaper to get a hard drive instead of another phone?
I know phones are largely subsidized, but how about, say, a single 1-terabyte drive and then back to phone buying?
To me the lesson is no matter how easy you try to make some computer task/interface, it will never be good enough for a very large fraction of the computer-uneducated/uneducable user base. The iOS storage management UI is ridiculously easy to understand. When you're full, a pop-up tells you that the storage is full and offers to take you to the page that shows you what's using up all the space and includes helpful next steps and options for deleting things. It's about as easy as you can get while preserving the ability to make a decision about what to keep.

And still, many to most non-technical people don't get it, because it requires judgment about a technical matter--the one thing this audience does not and will never have. No matter how easy you make it, if it requires a decision, they'll freeze up and ignore the problem because they are the kinds of people who are incapable of making technical decisions. They need to get over this mental block, or hand the decision off to a trusted technically-knowledgeable friend.

From the perspective of a product designer or manager, there are only two options that work:
1) ignore these people because they're hopeless, and cede the market to another product or firm
2) have the software make the decision for them

#2 would look like a system that automatically deletes replaceable content (like large apps) and re-downloads them as needed, and backs up user data to the cloud, automatically enrolling the user in a fee-based plan. This sounds completely infantilizing, because it is, but it's the only way for non-technical people to use computer equipment without the assistance of their tech nerd children.
Last edited by Pointedstick on Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Tyler » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:32 pm

Yeah, when it comes to that kinda thing I feel like Apple does a good job of striking a nice balance. Not only do they make the software relatively simple, but also as option #3 they offer AppleCare for people who need help but don't have tech savvy friends or family on call. Even if I wouldn't get an Apple computer for myself, I'd still recommend them to my parents.
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