Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:49 pm

The interesting implication here is that there are basically two types of users: technical folks who are cognitively capable of going any distance at all, limited only by their willingness to do so; and non-technical folks who cannot and never will--ever.

The technical users are best served by general-purpose computers that present an intuitive UI that can grow with them, allowing opportunities to learn first power user UI features (e.g. keyboard shortcuts), then UI scripting, basic command-line skills, shell scripting, and finally full-blown programming, with all of these paths being available but never required. The power is always there, but they can use it at whatever level of efficiency they're comfortable with.

The non-technical users are best served with single-purpose "computing appliances" that make decisions for them that are right 95% of the time, have no easy way to destroy anything, and offer professional support on demand. It's okay if they cost a seemingly amount of money, either up front or on a monthly basis, because these are the people who pay for convenience and safety.

As much as I wish iOS was the latter (because then I would have a lot less family support work to do), it's really not, unfortunately. It came close in the beginning, but has veered off track IMHO and now has no clear ideal user.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by whatchamacallit » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:44 pm

and then there was Chromebook...


Seriously though I love how simple Chromebooks are. I am technical but work on computers all day so I just want the simplicity in my own time.

I haven't been able to see it in action but I think the less technical elderly would have a really hard time breaking them.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:47 pm

whatchamacallit wrote:and then there was Chromebook...


Seriously though I love how simple Chromebooks are.
..
I haven't been able to see it in action
You haven't been able to see a Chromebook in action,
or an elderly person working on one?


Edit: fixed quote tag
Last edited by dualstow on Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by whatchamacallit » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:49 pm

dualstow wrote:
whatchamacallit wrote:and then there was Chromebook...


Seriously though I love how simple Chromebooks are.
..
I haven't been able to see it in action /quote]
You haven't been able to see a Chromebook in action,
or an elderly person working on one?
I haven't seen an elderly person use one.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Pointedstick wrote:To me the lesson is no matter how easy you try to make some computer task/interface, it will never be good enough for a very large fraction of the computer-uneducated/uneducable user base. The iOS storage management UI is ridiculously easy to understand. When you're full, a pop-up tells you that the storage is full and offers to take you to the page that shows you what's using up all the space and includes helpful next steps and options for deleting things.
I did not know that! I deliberately never have let my devices get full, so I've never seen the pop-up.

I certainly agree that things will never be easy enough for some (cough cough my parents).
WiseOne wrote: Then there's my mother, who still doesn't understand that files are things that sit on internal hard drives, and not inside applications like Word.
This made my smile, because I'm constantly teaching my dad to manage files via explorer's yellow folders, the way God intended. No matter how many times we've gone over this, the next time I visit he's doing everything from within Excel again.

My mom uses a Mac- well, nowadays mostly the smaller portable devices, and she goes to those Apple classes mentioned by Tyler. Move over Mother Theresa. Whoever's teaching Mom must have the patience of a saint.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:31 am

;D
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by WiseOne » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:42 am

OMG you guys are balm for a tech-support weary soul. My mother calls at least once a week with questions like this. The last one was about not being able to access the scanner. It turns out the usb cable wasn't plugged in. And, lord only knows how often I've carefully explained about files.

The person who comes out with an Elderly Person-Safe Computer is going to clean up big time! If it's a Chromebook, I'm willing to go out and buy one right now. Unfortunately, my mother loves her Canon scanner and it won't work with a Chromebook. It's bad enough that it only partially works with the Mac, because Canon, for reasons best known to themselves, decided they don't need to support El Capitan.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:59 am

Do you all think we'll be like that one day? I promised myself I wouldn't, & I used to think I was immune because I grew up with computers. However, I'm clueless with cellphones, or rather half-clued.

There will be some new device that will disrupt things and evolve too quickly for us, perhaps.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by whatchamacallit » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:57 am

There may be a good scanning solution for chromebooks but I haven't needed it because I just use my phone for scanning to google drive.

There are brother printers that have google drive built in:

http://www.brother-usa.com/connect/web/ ... drive.aspx



BTW, I think the DNS is broken to forum from http://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/

I have been using http://77.104.139.218/~gyroscop/forum/ but it doesn't seem like others have this link.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:34 pm

Wow, Fedora 25 is apparently very easy to install on PCs and Macs.

I can't give up my main computer or the OS on it, but I've got to give this a spin when I get the chance.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Pointedstick » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:06 pm

I'm using it right now. It's really nice. Not perfect (judging by the list of bugs I've filed and am working on), but nonetheless very good.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:26 pm

I guess you moved up from 24, right, PS? The thing that attracted me to it tonight was reading about the new installation process. You don't even need a separate LiveUSB tool. They do it all. On windows, it just makes an EXE for you. Media Writer or something?

I also like that it has the LXDE environment, among others from which to choose, as I am used to that from LXLE linux on old machines. (I hope I have the alphabet soup right).

This could really work out on my newish HP Stream where LXLE struggled.

It will also install on a Mac, so this is definitely going on my older Mac mini.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Pointedstick » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:06 pm

I actually installed F25 on a brand-new HP laptop. It was my inaugural re-embrace of Linux and break with Apple.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:21 pm

Pointedstick wrote:I actually installed F25 on a brand-new HP laptop. It was my inaugural re-embrace of Linux and break with Apple.
Ah, ok. I hadn't reread your paragraph on the HP Spectre. Thought it was v24 for some reason.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by WiseOne » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:49 pm

Glad it worked out!

Usually when you go give a presentation, the venue provides the video projector & connections, but if for some reason your girlfriend has to lug in all her own equipment, I'd suggest a personal wifi hotspot. It would come in handy anyway, especially at such a (theoretically) disadvantaged location.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Steve Brule » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:33 pm

Pointedstick wrote:Yes, this is a limitation of iOS. I would privately offer to file a bug/feature request for you, but I no longer work at Apple. :)

I'm really enjoying my new HP Spectre x360, which flips around and turns into a tablet. Many other PC laptops do this too, and in a lot of ways it really does seem superior to the dedicated tablet experience. Of course, Windows 10 is also kind of sucky, but you can put Linux on them! I'm back to Linux as my full-time OS (Fedora 25 right now) and it's kind of breathtaking how far things have come in the 2 years since I last did this.
How was wayland treated you thus far?
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Pointedstick » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:10 am

Steve Brule wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:Yes, this is a limitation of iOS. I would privately offer to file a bug/feature request for you, but I no longer work at Apple. :)

I'm really enjoying my new HP Spectre x360, which flips around and turns into a tablet. Many other PC laptops do this too, and in a lot of ways it really does seem superior to the dedicated tablet experience. Of course, Windows 10 is also kind of sucky, but you can put Linux on them! I'm back to Linux as my full-time OS (Fedora 25 right now) and it's kind of breathtaking how far things have come in the 2 years since I last did this.
How was wayland treated you thus far?
Generally fine. I'm back on Xorg until Chromium fixes this one really annoying UI bug: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/is ... ?id=384970

There are a few other minor UI annoyances (e.g. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770112) but they're getting fixed.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by pehni45 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:02 am

whatchamacallit wrote:
Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:57 am
There may be a good scanning solution for chromebooks but I haven't needed it because I just use my phone for scanning to google drive.

There are brother printers that have google drive built in:

http://www.brother-usa.com/connect/web/ ... drive.aspx



BTW, I think the DNS is broken to forum from http://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/

I have been using http://77.104.139.218/~gyroscop/forum/ but it doesn't seem like others have this link.
Fortunately, Munbyn is also offering this Google Drive built in option with it's shipping label printer. Give it a try
Last edited by pehni45 on Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:00 am

Hah! O0 Thank you, single-post bot for digging up this thread. I was surprised to see that I was the OP because I *love* my ipad mini now. I’m on my second one. Love it.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by vnatale » Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:18 am

dualstow wrote:
Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:59 am

Do you all think we'll be like that one day? I promised myself I wouldn't, & I used to think I was immune because I grew up with computers. However, I'm clueless with cellphones, or rather half-clued.

There will be some new device that will disrupt things and evolve too quickly for us, perhaps.


I oftentimes say, "I'm not a phone person. I'm a computer person."
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by vnatale » Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:19 am

dualstow wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:00 am

Hah! O0 Thank you, single-post bot for digging up this thread. I was surprised to see that I was the OP because I *love* my ipad mini now. I’m on my second one. Love it.


Just read through all that was here. Had never prior seen this topic during my extended period of time in the archives a few years ago.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Smith1776 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:22 am

Imagine the cheek that someone must have trying to give tech advice to Pointedstick lol.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by dualstow » Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:00 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:22 am
Imagine the cheek that someone must have trying to give tech advice to Pointedstick lol.
I only reread a few posts. Hope that wasn’t me! :o
:D
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Re: Apple Sucks, Doesn't it?

Post by Pointedstick » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:25 am

Hah, bot-driven blast from the past.

My interest in target user groups hasn't waned, and you can see a more recent set of thoughts on the topic at https://pointieststick.com/2021/11/29/w ... arget-user. It's written for a KDE audience but should be generally comprehensible.
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