Ok so just to zoom into the facts of this.WiseOne wrote:While we wait for Maddy to answer (Maddy - love your posts btw!), let me take a shot. 200 years ago, there was such a thing as freedom of speech in this country. Now, you can be fired from your job for saying something that is not approved by certain authorities. If you say those things while committing a crime, you get charged with a hate crime in addition to the one you committed.moda0306 wrote:What is your opinion on the Patriot act, surveillance, the "war on terror," stop and frisk, and the idea of police forces trying deport 11 million people by force.Maddy wrote:
I was one of those "civil libertarian liberals." We became civil libertarian conservatives when the Left went full-throttle authoritarian.
Also, explain the main few ways the left went "full throttle authoritarian?"
If you don't mind.... thanks.
Even if you dislike the opinions that some people hold or what they say, unless it meets the Oliver Wendell Holmes test of shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater, that doesn't mean you can dictate those opinions or what is and is not OK to say. The First Amendment was never about making people comfortable.
And btw I would never dare to say the above in any situation where it could be easily attributed to me. To me, this smacks of living under authoritarianism. This, more than anything else, is what prompted my personal political rightward shift. Not that the Republican's social conservative platform is much better, but it's at least a lot less sinister.
200 years ago, in 1816, we did have freedom of speech granted by the first amendment, protecting our right to free speech against the power of the federal government. There's two other pieces to zoom in to as part of this... First off, you could be fired for saying the wrong thing. Your job was (and is) not protected by the first amendment by your employer. Never had been. Further, we were NOT protected at the state and local level, as incorporation of the bill of rights to state and local governments wasn't established on paper until 1868 with the 14th Amendment, and in practice until the 1920's when the federal courts enacted principles of incorporation downwards towards the states.
So not only has your employment never been protected by the 1st amendment, you actually hearkened back to a time where we had tyrannical state and local governments all over the place not respecting the bill of rights... naturally.. as they didn't have to.
As one interesting example, if you look back to the 1950's and 1960's, police were arrest Lenny Bruce for obscenity based on his crude humor. We would be appalled by this today. Keep in mind this is post-incorporation so the 1st amendment applied to state/local governments. All these people yelling that "we're so politically correct today," or "we don't have freedom of speech," don't really have a strong grasp of the facts. Saying stuff your employer doesn't like has always been a very risky move, and if you include the intrusions on free speech by state and local governments, we are in a much, much better position today than decades ago... and leagues better than 200 years ago.
I agree that the 1st Amendment isn't about making people feel comfortable. I'm not sure what that really means. Yes there are lots of people advocating for "safe spaces" on college campuses and I fully support the free speech forces on college campuses. This is only one aspect of free speech. Free speech in the media is huge. Yes most of what we call "media" is garbage. I really don't care if they anger Trump... suing, silencing and spying on the media has to be combated at all costs, and Trump is not a force for that, and Republicans rarely have been (liberals used to be).