I ran across an article by Terry Coxon that I found interesting. It's about having some of your assets overseas http://dailyreckoning.com/expatriate-your-wallet/.
[edit: fixed last name spelling]
Terry Coxon
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Terry Coxon
Last edited by Pkg Man on Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Machines are gonna fail...and the system's gonna fail"
Re: Terry Coxon
I read Coxon's book a few years ago. I found his advice in general to be more aggressive than he seemed to appreciate.
I think it was this over-aggressiveness that caused him to lose his position as manageer of PRPFX.
To me, Coxon's strategies are along the lines of "I can teach you how to be a great streetfighter" when the advice most people need is "I can teach you how to stay out of street fights."
I think it was this over-aggressiveness that caused him to lose his position as manageer of PRPFX.
To me, Coxon's strategies are along the lines of "I can teach you how to be a great streetfighter" when the advice most people need is "I can teach you how to stay out of street fights."
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
Re: Terry Coxon
While such things as an International Asset Protection Trust does seem like overly aggressive overkill for all but the extremely wealthy, I think that several of the ideas in this article are very applicable to members of this forum. Most of us are already preparing for a “street fight,”? even if it is a remote event, hence the discussions of FDIC insolvency, gold confiscation, emergency preparedness, and even buying guns.
Holding a foreign bank account, having a foreign safe deposit box, and buying some foreign land all seem in keeping with the type of financial diversification that HB advocated, especially for those of us in the US living close to the Canada border. I’ve done such things, and I sleep very well at night.
Thanks for sharing the article!
Holding a foreign bank account, having a foreign safe deposit box, and buying some foreign land all seem in keeping with the type of financial diversification that HB advocated, especially for those of us in the US living close to the Canada border. I’ve done such things, and I sleep very well at night.
Thanks for sharing the article!
Re: Terry Coxon
BearBones,
I don't disagree with you, but it would have been nice if the article had said that following his advice WOULD invite additional scrutiny from U.S. authorities.
When Coxon suggests a U.S.-based IRA can basically serve as a shell for ownership of a foreign closely held business without noting that there are 1,001 things that can go haywire with such an arrangement, I don't think he is painting a clear picture.
Also, for some reason Coxon doesn't mention that foreign governments can be tempted to seize assets the same way the U.S. government can, and normally it's a lot easier politically to seize assets of foreigners than of local residents.
I have seen what happened to Coxon from following his own strategies (read the SEC case against him that led to his departure from PRPFX). It's not that he did anything wrong; rather, he just put himself in a position of being in the middle of a lot of shady-looking deals for no real reason that ultimately put him in a position where he had no more room to maneuver.
In my experience, the goal shouldn't be to defend yourself successfully from the SEC, IRS, or whoever else may want to bother you, it should be to never be bothered by these entities in the first place.
There are probably valuable nuggets mixed in with the ore of Coxon's thinking, but he is not an attorney and he is basically talking about complicated legal strategies for protecting and shielding assets, which is (IMHO) a dangerous thing to be doing.
I don't disagree with you, but it would have been nice if the article had said that following his advice WOULD invite additional scrutiny from U.S. authorities.
When Coxon suggests a U.S.-based IRA can basically serve as a shell for ownership of a foreign closely held business without noting that there are 1,001 things that can go haywire with such an arrangement, I don't think he is painting a clear picture.
Also, for some reason Coxon doesn't mention that foreign governments can be tempted to seize assets the same way the U.S. government can, and normally it's a lot easier politically to seize assets of foreigners than of local residents.
I have seen what happened to Coxon from following his own strategies (read the SEC case against him that led to his departure from PRPFX). It's not that he did anything wrong; rather, he just put himself in a position of being in the middle of a lot of shady-looking deals for no real reason that ultimately put him in a position where he had no more room to maneuver.
In my experience, the goal shouldn't be to defend yourself successfully from the SEC, IRS, or whoever else may want to bother you, it should be to never be bothered by these entities in the first place.
There are probably valuable nuggets mixed in with the ore of Coxon's thinking, but he is not an attorney and he is basically talking about complicated legal strategies for protecting and shielding assets, which is (IMHO) a dangerous thing to be doing.
Last edited by MediumTex on Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
Re: Terry Coxon
I agree that the best course of action is to avoid any issues with the tax authorities ("Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s" is my view). I also think it is wise to investigate unambiguously legal ways to hold assets beyond our borders. Some of Coxon's ideas do appear to be potentially more trouble than they are worth, but the idea of having gold in a foreign bank safe deposit box is something I'd like to investigate.
"Machines are gonna fail...and the system's gonna fail"
Re: Terry Coxon
As with all things, keep it simple. A foreign account in Switzerland use to be quite simple but has now gotten more complicated. An account in Canada could be simpler and could provide some breathing room in an emergency.
Really, that was the big takeaway I had from Browne's advice on this matter. It's not so much to go around hiding assets which is an invitation for trouble. But rather a way to have some money that is not easily grabbed so you have time to explore your options.
I use Argentina as a recent example. Their last currency explosion happened over a very short amount of time (a matter of weeks if I recall for the major damage to be done). Those with all their money in country got badly burned. Those with some assets out of the country could drag their feet before repatriating anything and this was enough time to miss the fall of the axe. During a currency crisis the markets are not going to wait until every last person's money is roped back home to punish the valuation. It will happen whether your money is there or not for the party. So better for not all of it to be there (or to at least show up fashionably late).
I read Coxon's article and gold is definitely considered a financial asset by the IRS. So there are errors in his advice and again it's just not worth the trouble to get tangled up with the IRS if you can avoid it.
If you are worried about lawsuits, get an umbrella policy. They are cheap. If you are being a jerk that could get you sued in ways not covered by insurance, then stop being a jerk.
In terms of offshore trusts, I like the saying: "Sunny climates are for shady people." I wouldn't touch them.
Really, that was the big takeaway I had from Browne's advice on this matter. It's not so much to go around hiding assets which is an invitation for trouble. But rather a way to have some money that is not easily grabbed so you have time to explore your options.
I use Argentina as a recent example. Their last currency explosion happened over a very short amount of time (a matter of weeks if I recall for the major damage to be done). Those with all their money in country got badly burned. Those with some assets out of the country could drag their feet before repatriating anything and this was enough time to miss the fall of the axe. During a currency crisis the markets are not going to wait until every last person's money is roped back home to punish the valuation. It will happen whether your money is there or not for the party. So better for not all of it to be there (or to at least show up fashionably late).
I read Coxon's article and gold is definitely considered a financial asset by the IRS. So there are errors in his advice and again it's just not worth the trouble to get tangled up with the IRS if you can avoid it.
If you are worried about lawsuits, get an umbrella policy. They are cheap. If you are being a jerk that could get you sued in ways not covered by insurance, then stop being a jerk.
In terms of offshore trusts, I like the saying: "Sunny climates are for shady people." I wouldn't touch them.
Last edited by craigr on Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Terry Coxon
Great post, Craig.craigr wrote: As with all things, keep it simple. A foreign account in Switzerland use to be quite simple but has now gotten more complicated. An account in Canada could be simpler and could provide some breathing room in an emergency.
Really, that was the big takeaway I had from Browne's advice on this matter. It's not so much to go around hiding assets which is an invitation for trouble. But rather a way to have some money that is not easily grabbed so you have time to explore your options.
I use Argentina as a recent example. Their last currency explosion happened over a very short amount of time (a matter of weeks if I recall for the major damage to be done). Those with all their money in country got badly burned. Those with some assets out of the country could drag their feet before repatriating anything and this was enough time to miss the fall of the axe. During a currency crisis the markets are not going to wait until every last person's money is roped back home to punish the valuation. It will happen whether your money is there or not for the party. So better for not all of it to be there (or to at least show up fashionably late).
I read Coxon's article and gold is definitely considered a financial asset by the IRS. So there are errors in his advice and again it's just not worth the trouble to get tangled up with the IRS if you can avoid it.
If you are worried about lawsuits, get an umbrella policy. They are cheap. If you are being a jerk that could get you sued in ways not covered by insurance, then stop being a jerk.
In terms of offshore trusts, I like the saying: "Sunny climates are for shady people." I wouldn't touch them.
Does anyone know how hard it is to set up a Canadian account from the US?
Any pitfalls?
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone."
Pascal
Pascal
Re: Terry Coxon
One thing I picked up from "How I Found Freedom..." is the catch-22 inherent in activism against things. If you are deeply opposed to X, and start spending a lot of time and energy fighting X, you wind up embroiled in direct confrontations with X, which is distressing since you are deeply opposed to X.
The pattern holds for X="invasive taxation." If you go to extremes to avoid invasive taxation, you seem to wind up provoking the tax authorities and on the receiving end of the kinds of hassles you were trying to avoid in the first place. As a practical matter, it seems like you're better off sticking to, in the words of Pkg Man, unambiguously legal methods, and leaving it at that.
The pattern holds for X="invasive taxation." If you go to extremes to avoid invasive taxation, you seem to wind up provoking the tax authorities and on the receiving end of the kinds of hassles you were trying to avoid in the first place. As a practical matter, it seems like you're better off sticking to, in the words of Pkg Man, unambiguously legal methods, and leaving it at that.