Pizza Drones

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curlew
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Pizza Drones

Post by curlew » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:01 am

This is the kind of thing you see in futuristic science fiction movies but it looks like the future has come to New Zealand.
Craig, have you tried this yet?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11700291

I'm not sure if this will work in the U.S.A. Given the way we've been using drone technology in the middle east somebody named Mohammed might think of a way to give some payback.
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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:09 am

curlew wrote:This is the kind of thing you see in futuristic science fiction movies but it looks like the future has come to New Zealand.
Craig, have you tried this yet?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11700291

I'm not sure if this will work in the U.S.A. Given the way we've been using drone technology in the middle east somebody named Mohammed might think of a way to give some payback.
I can't wait until people start shooting at drones to get the goodies they carry.
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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:36 pm

Equip those drones with something like a Q36 and chaff or deployable shotgunbots like in Kill Decision, add in Sand People shooting at technology, and this has the elements of a Star Wars episode.

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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by craigr » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:13 pm

curlew wrote:This is the kind of thing you see in futuristic science fiction movies but it looks like the future has come to New Zealand.
Craig, have you tried this yet?
No that's not near me yet, thankfully!
I'm not sure if this will work in the U.S.A. Given the way we've been using drone technology in the middle east somebody named Mohammed might think of a way to give some payback.
Many years back I had considered writing a fiction novel and one of the assassination methods was going to be a swarm of drones with small explosive devices. It would basically be unstoppable with today's technology.

I actually think the future of anti-personnel warfare is likely to have micro-drones targeting people. Think of a truck going to the outskirts of a town. The back opens and out come tens of thousands of tiny drones with fragmentation devices attached. The drones have onboard cameras and AI and are programmed to fly over and explode on anything with two legs. Or maybe they are told to go into an area and land and watch for movement. When they see anything move, they activate and attack.

You could clear out a town of all inhabitants with virtually no risk to your own people.

That kind of stuff is coming.
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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:41 pm

craigr wrote: Many years back I had considered writing a fiction novel and one of the assassination methods was going to be a swarm of drones with small explosive devices. It would basically be unstoppable with today's technology.

I actually think the future of anti-personnel warfare is likely to have micro-drones targeting people. Think of a truck going to the outskirts of a town. The back opens and out come tens of thousands of tiny drones with fragmentation devices attached. The drones have onboard cameras and AI and are programmed to fly over and explode on anything with two legs. Or maybe they are told to go into an area and land and watch for movement. When they see anything move, they activate and attack.

You could clear out a town of all inhabitants with virtually no risk to your own people.

That kind of stuff is coming.
That's all in Kill Decision, by Daniel Suarez. Well, his were drones with shotgun shells that crashed into you to set them off, not explosives. His other books (Daemon and Freedom) have all kinds of crazy technology in them too. He consults for the Pentagon.

Wired For War by PW Singer is another good one. It was interesting to find out that the company that makes the Roomba makes a bomb disposal robot.
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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by Tyler » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:43 pm

MachineGhost wrote: I can't wait until people start shooting at drones to get the goodies they carry.
Who needs guns when computers work just as well?

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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by craigr » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:46 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:That's all in Kill Decision, by Daniel Suarez. Well, his were drones with shotgun shells that crashed into you to set them off, not explosives. His other books (Daemon and Freedom) have all kinds of crazy technology in them too. He consults for the Pentagon.

Wired For War by PW Singer is another good one. It was interesting to find out that the company that makes the Roomba makes a bomb disposal robot.
Thanks for the book recommendations. I do think drone weapons are a significant threat going forward.

Yeah the Roomba company started out doing other things, but found out more people were asking about a robot to vacuum than get rid of bombs. Go figure.
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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by clacy » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:15 pm

As an aside, I have a relative who is very high up with one of major US aerospace/defense firms. He runs a division that sells weaponry to another part of the globe. Anyway, he said that swarming drones is the next big thing for warfare.

B-2's will drop 50-75 UAV's that will each contain a couple hundred micro-drones outfitted with explosives that will swarm dozens of targets at once.

It sounded like this will be operational in the very near future.
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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by MediumTex » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:37 pm

craigr wrote:
curlew wrote:This is the kind of thing you see in futuristic science fiction movies but it looks like the future has come to New Zealand.
Craig, have you tried this yet?
No that's not near me yet, thankfully!
I'm not sure if this will work in the U.S.A. Given the way we've been using drone technology in the middle east somebody named Mohammed might think of a way to give some payback.
Many years back I had considered writing a fiction novel and one of the assassination methods was going to be a swarm of drones with small explosive devices. It would basically be unstoppable with today's technology.

I actually think the future of anti-personnel warfare is likely to have micro-drones targeting people. Think of a truck going to the outskirts of a town. The back opens and out come tens of thousands of tiny drones with fragmentation devices attached. The drones have onboard cameras and AI and are programmed to fly over and explode on anything with two legs. Or maybe they are told to go into an area and land and watch for movement. When they see anything move, they activate and attack.

You could clear out a town of all inhabitants with virtually no risk to your own people.

That kind of stuff is coming.
As I recall, there was a U.S. war games event involving Persian Gulf encounters with Iranian Navy vessels maybe 10 years ago.

The group representing the Iranians swarmed the U.S. ships with small boats coming from all directions and it completely overwhelmed the U.S. ships' defensive measures. Apparently, someone got in trouble for breaking the rules concerning the types of attacks that were allowed as part of the war games.

I can easily visualize remote controlled vehicles and boats to go along with the drones. You can't have an air force without an army and a navy, right?
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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by craigr » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:12 pm

MediumTex wrote:The group representing the Iranians swarmed the U.S. ships with small boats coming from all directions and it completely overwhelmed the U.S. ships' defensive measures. Apparently, someone got in trouble for breaking the rules concerning the types of attacks that were allowed as part of the war games.

I can easily visualize remote controlled vehicles and boats to go along with the drones. You can't have an air force without an army and a navy, right?
Aircraft carriers are obsolete if we ever see serious combat with a modern military. Carriers are huge, not maneuverable, require massive logistics support and protection vessels, easily spotted and tracked from satellite, and are fragile. They are the glass jaw of the Navy against anyone that wants to put up a serious fight. They are sitting ducks.

Beyond just swarming with boats, I can't imagine what they'd do to dozens (or hundreds?) of missiles launched concurrently at the battle group. The defenses would likely be overwhelmed despite claims to the contrary.

Then there is the idea of a missile attack that is orbital (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship ... ic_missile). A kinetic energy warhead hitting your vessel from orbit would be enough to take it out of action and it's very unlikely it could be intercepted in flight.

Finally, the above doesn't even include sub based attacks, which again would be difficult to protect against in any serious numbers. A supercavitating torpedo can go in excess of 200MPH underwater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval). How many of those can be dealt with?

The only reason why the U.S. Navy has been able to pull of the stuff they have the past 70 years in combat is because they have not been fighting an enemy that can do anything about it. Give them an enemy of China/Russian level capabilities in the modern area and they are going to have serious problems.

The military, as the saying goes, is always fighting the last war.
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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:32 pm

In a conventional military context, I don't know if drones are an omniscient force though. I thought I saw that Russia stranded the USS Donald Cook dead in the water with an electronic attack. The Iranians also hacked a drone. So to defeat a networked pack of drones you still only need to defeat one source.

I think their potential is much more potent in an undefended area, as a terrorist tool. Electronic countermeasures can be deployed on the Ukranian front or in a carrier group, but in Los Angeles? Or Chicago? A drone swarm deployed out of the back of a cargo van would be devastating.
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Re: Pizza Drones

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:55 am

Carriers are definitely toast in the wars of the future. India and Russia have already developed and deployed operational supersonic missiles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos). You can't put enough CIWS systems on a ship to protect against those things. Each missile costs $2.7m; the navy's latest under-construction carrier costs $13b. If they are ever deployed, the cost effectiveness of those weapons will be staggering. Carriers' main defensive strategy right now is using the carried aircraft to destroy anything that threatens the carriers before they get within weapons range, but that's really risky, especially against a modern adversary that's not multiple generations behind technologically and militarily.

After decades of slimming down the military with a lot of expensive high-tech toys (F-22s cost like 150 million apiece!), I hope we realize that a return to overwhelming numbers of what's "good enough" will win the day. Of course that type of conflict won't go over well at home unless it's truly dire. You can't fight a low-intensity anti-terrorism campaign with expendable troops and vehicles and expect the public to support it for long.
Last edited by Pointedstick on Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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