All Things Permanent Health

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Maddy
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Re: The problem with life extension

Post by Maddy » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:54 pm

MachineGhost wrote:Rich people always get what they want in the beginning. Either get rich or wait your turn.
Well when the elite go to Mars, could we just keep them there?
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by Reub » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:32 pm

Rich is someone that has one dollar more than you have.
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by Reub » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:34 pm

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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:44 pm

Maddy wrote:I would hazard a guess that for most people, alienation (in the Marxist sense of having lost the feeling of "connectedness" and meaning in what we do) is a far bigger problem than boredom or whatever else it is that propels technophiles to be constantly pushing the envelope. I predict that one of these days, there will be a backlash against technology and people will be signing up in droves for Outward Bound-type experiences and classes in hog butchering and candlemaking. Above all, people want to feel REAL, and technology is driving us further and further away from that.
Immersive VR will solve that problem and make things feel REAL. We're disconnected now not because of technology, but because of piss poor government planning of urban and suburban areas. Here's a small taste of what experiences are available now: https://www.viveport.com/list/desktop

What technology is absolutely excellent at is reducing the costs to have experiences. Ships, trains, planes, cars, video game consoles, VR, etc.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The problem with life extension

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:47 pm

Maddy wrote:
MachineGhost wrote:Rich people always get what they want in the beginning. Either get rich or wait your turn.
Well when the elite go to Mars, could we just keep them there?
Not sure I like the idea of the Earth turning into a poor, impoverished wasteland with milk farms:

Image
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The problem with life extension

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:01 pm

MangoMan wrote:That doesn't answer my question. Even if the price comes down eventually, at the beginning only the rich will be able to participate. And that will raise all kinds of ethical issues with everyone else.
I'm not a bioethicist and if they're gonna pass a law or outlaw a treatment because of "fairness", we will just go out of the country via medical tourism to more enlightened (or greedy) countries to get whatever done. It is a losing proposition for only those that want to play by the rules (lack the balls or are just simply naive) that other people have decided is in your own best interest. I have only two words to say to that.
MachineGhost wrote:I'm not complaining. What you were talking about is essentially in the medical realm. Have you seen the price of anything in health care come down in price, even after the idiots in Washington made that an expressed goal of Obamacare?
That's sick care. There's no profit in eliminating sickness or reducing costs. It's an entirely different paradigm than the one I'm talking about. Let's be honest. Regenerative medicine is not going to be welcomed with open arms by the powers that be; it isn't now, its not gonna be for a long time. You will wind up dead waiting for the Byzantine bureaucracy to stamp its feeble "approval" on anything revolutionary. You will have to take matters in your own hands if the Byzantine bureaucracy is not moving fast enough. Stem cell therapy is a success for many debilitating conditions yet the FDA, the NIH, the lamestream media and Big Pharma consistently lie, lie, lie and spread even more lies about it being "risky", "ineffective", "worthless", "useless", or a "scam". The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.

Look, life is not for the weak and winners are not handed to you by Big Mommy or Daddy government. It may not be fair, but this is reality. If you want to be a winner, either in terms of being rich or practical life extension, you have to grab it. No one is going to do it for you.
Rich is relative. What constitute rich in your mind? What constitutes rich in this application?
Hmm, not rich enough to afford the first iteration but rich enough to afford the second or third at much lower costs before the 20-30 years it takes the FDA to stamp "approved" because it threatens the crony profits of the status quo.

Being rich alone is not enough, of course. You also have to be informed, you also have to believe and you also have to know where to get access. Make it a habit now or you're gonna join the back of the queue.
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Re: The problem with life extension

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:33 pm

MachineGhost wrote:
MangoMan wrote:That doesn't answer my question. Even if the price comes down eventually, at the beginning only the rich will be able to participate. And that will raise all kinds of ethical issues with everyone else.
I'm not a bioethicist and if they're gonna pass a law or outlaw a treatment because of "fairness", we will just go out of the country via medical tourism to more enlightened (or greedy) countries to get whatever done. It is a losing proposition for only those that want to play by the rules (lack the balls or are just simply naive) that other people have decided is in your own best interest. I have only two words to say to that.
MachineGhost wrote:I'm not complaining. What you were talking about is essentially in the medical realm. Have you seen the price of anything in health care come down in price, even after the idiots in Washington made that an expressed goal of Obamacare?
That's sick care. There's no profit in eliminating sickness or reducing costs. It's an entirely different paradigm than the one I'm talking about. Let's be honest. Regenerative medicine is not going to be welcomed with open arms by the powers that be; it isn't now, its not gonna be for a long time. You will wind up dead waiting for the Byzantine bureaucracy to stamp its feeble "approval" on anything revolutionary. You will have to take matters in your own hands if the Byzantine bureaucracy is not moving fast enough. Stem cell therapy is a success for many debilitating conditions yet the FDA, the NIH, the lamestream media and Big Pharma consistently lie, lie, lie and spread even more lies about it being "risky", "ineffective", "worthless", "useless", or a "scam". The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.

Look, life is not for the weak and winners are not handed to you by Big Mommy or Daddy government. It may not be fair, but this is reality. If you want to be a winner, either in terms of being rich or practical life extension, you have to grab it. No one is going to do it for you.
Rich is relative. What constitute rich in your mind? What constitutes rich in this application?
Hmm, not rich enough to afford the first iteration but rich enough to afford the second or third at much lower costs before the 20-30 years it takes the FDA to stamp "approved" because it threatens the crony profits of the status quo.

Being rich alone is not enough, of course. You also have to be informed, you also have to believe and you also have to know where to get access. Make it a habit now or you're gonna join the back of the queue.
Spoken like a true Darwinian. Screw everyone else but me. Sad. But I doubt you will understand. :'(
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: The problem with life extension

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:00 pm

Mountaineer wrote:Spoken like a true Darwinian. Screw everyone else but me. Sad. But I doubt you will understand. :'(
I hate to break it to you, but that is your God's nature. Argue with him/her/it, not me. I'm just the messenger.
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:51 am

Dirt Poor: Have Fruits and Vegetables Become Less Nutritious?
Because of soil depletion, crops grown decades ago were much richer in vitamins and minerals than the varieties most of us get today

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... tion-loss/
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by Maddy » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:26 pm

Interesting that the author doesn't cite return to heirloom varieties as one of the answers, although his own analysis would suggest that might be the most important factor.
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:36 pm

Maddy wrote:Interesting that the author doesn't cite return to heirloom varieties as one of the answers, although his own analysis would suggest that might be the most important factor.
One of the commenters said its not really diminished soil per se, but commercialized, fast growing, sweet tasting fruits and vegetables that don't have enough time to uptake minerals present. What do you think about that?
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:03 pm

Desert wrote:As Maddy likely knows better than all of us, soil is repairable and improvable. Healthy soil is a bit like a living organism, teeming with microbes and decaying organic material. By the way, making compost in the high desert is very frustrating; it takes forever. It's good to be down here in the South where everything rots almost immediately (including the house). :)
Does SoCal qualify as a high desert? 'cuz high or not, the damn heat has stunted all of my plants' growth. :(
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by Maddy » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:24 pm

You really should be able to make great compost anywhere. Everything rots eventually, so you have the forces of nature on your side! The basic formula is 1 part green (e.g., grass clippings) to one part brown (e.g., fallen leaves, straw, or wood shavings--but not cedar). Layer the brown and green so that no layer is more than 4-6 inches high. Keep the pile uniformly moist throughout--about like a wrung-out sponge. Turn it with a pitchfork every couple of weeks to keep things cooking aerobically. Don't get discouraged! Things won't get moving until your pile is of sufficient size to generate and hold heat--about 1 cubic yard.

If you're religious about doing the above, your pile should heat up nicely and should yield a rich, black humus chock full of worms by the end of the summer. (I'm assuming you start the pile in the spring, when grass clippings become plentiful.) But if you really want fast results, you can kick-start your pile with the addition of fresh chicken manure. Composted manure from the store won't work--it has to be straight from the chicken house. Or, if you're not squeamish about these things, pee in the compost pile morning, noon and night. I've got a little neighbor boy who BEGS to pee in my compost. But since I've gone commercial, that's no longer possible. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anything--under most circumstances urine is sterile, but customers would understandably flip out.

Usually slow compost is the result of (1) too little oxygen (i.e., not turning the pile frequently enough, (2) not enough watering, or (3) an imbalance in the ratio of nitrogen (green) to carbon (brown).
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:40 pm

Is cedar really that deadly? I used thin cedar wood shavings for hamsters as a mulch cover near the end of last season and then mixed that into the soil before planting this season (I use panda film now). Could that be why I stunted the growth instead of the heat?
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by Maddy » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:57 pm

The problem with cedar in compost is that it rots VERY slowly, which is why it has some good applications in landscaping. It also contains oils that are toxic to other plants. That's why you don't see much growing underneath cedar trees. So yes, it could very well be your culprit.

I'm not aware of cedar residue being harmful to ingest, although it's very common for people who work with cedar day in and day out to develop serious allergic reactions that go full-blown analphylactic. I recall that there is some debate about the advisability of using cedar around small animals.
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by l82start » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:49 pm

Maddy wrote:The problem with cedar in compost is that it rots VERY slowly, which is why it has some good applications in landscaping. It also contains oils that are toxic to other plants. That's why you don't see much growing underneath cedar trees. So yes, it could very well be your culprit.

I'm not aware of cedar residue being harmful to ingest, although it's very common for people who work with cedar day in and day out to develop serious allergic reactions that go full-blown analphylactic. I recall that there is some debate about the advisability of using cedar around small animals.
i know from time spent working as a roofer any splinter from a cedar shingle is a near guaranteed infection, i am not sure why exactly, maybe the oils or maybe some bacteria that live in them, but even with removal disinfection and proper care, even the smallest splinters leave red sore wounds, (i still have a small nodule floating around in my arm from a large deep splinter 15+ years later)
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:00 am

Great, I'm not sure I'm up for replacing all of the soil and mixing up another batch given the sunk costs I've accumulated already (near $1K) and nothing to show for it. Third try's the charm? ::)

Considering the patch of in ground land that isn't growing very well either (which I also covered with cedar wood shavings for mulch), I do think its highly probable that is factor.

Such an idiot.
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by Maddy » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:28 am

If you could elaborate a little more on what you've got, maybe I could come up with some ideas. I'm sort of an expert at coming up with solutions on a shoestring. Meet me at the Permanent Garden thread?
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:43 pm

I sure wish we can have our "Berlin Wall" moment soon. ::)
Dear Idiots at the FDA,

When I saw that the FDA is proposing an update to its definition of "healthy," I thought that the agency might rely on the most current science to support any such changes. I was disappointed to learn this was not the case.

The agency is harmonizing its healthy definition with the new Dietary Guidelines. But just look at what the Dietary Guidelines say about saturated fat, sodium, and cholesterol. Briefly put, the guidelines advise reducing or limiting all three, despite good evidence to the contrary, some of it even now acknowledged by the government. For example, the government otherwise now admits that dietary cholesterol is not an issue. So why should it be reduced or limited? Not only is dietary cholesterol not an issue -- many people taking statin drugs end up with too little cholesterol, which is the basic building block for all of our hormones. We will die if we don't have enough of what the government calls "bad cholesterol."

If the FDA looked further, the agency would see the most recent evidence showing that saturated fat is not linked to heart disease, and that too little sodium intake can pose many health hazards. And one cannot advise on the amount of sodium without considering the balance with potassium. The FDA notes that many people are low in potassium, but again it is balance that is crucial -- yet the recommendation for potassium remains unchanged.

The new Dietary Guidelines no longer recommend a low-fat diet, so the total fat component of the "healthy" definition is relaxed. Foods made up predominately of mono- and polyunsaturated fats will be able to be labeled "healthy" under certain conditions. It seems obvious to me that the FDA simply does not have the expertise to sort out these fats. The limits on saturated fat remain.

The second change pertains to the lower limits for nutrients. The specific nutrients listed above were included in the definition of "healthy" because they were identified as nutrients "of public health concern." The new Dietary Guidelines identify potassium and vitamin D as nutrients of public health concern, so now if foods contain at least a certain percentage of these nutrients, they can use the "healthy" label. This is of course ridiculous. Take unhealthy food and add some "nutrient of public concern" and now it is healthy?

It is interesting that the Dietary Guidelines identify specific nutrients of concern, but fail to recognize any role for dietary supplements in achieving recommended nutrient levels. In our official comments in response to the guidelines, we noted that the status of the American food supply is such that food, even if eaten properly, cannot supply all of the nutrients needed for healthy living.

Vitamins D and K are examples: there just isn't enough in food, even if you have the best diet and find the best food grown on great soil. Calling a food "healthy" which has only 10% of the vitamin D the government recommends you eat each day (a recommendation which is already pitifully low) is hardly going to address the nutrient deficiencies experienced by millions of Americans nor optimize the health of other Americans. As for vitamin K, the government does not yet appear to understand the essential role it plays, especially in making calcium available to our bones.

Notice that no limitations were placed on the amount of sugar or added sugar contained in the current definition of "healthy," which boggles the mind. So on the one hand, we have a completely phony definition of what "healthy" is, and on the other hand the agency is severely restricting companies' ability to communicate the real health benefits of their products.

In the final guidance document, I urge you to consult the most up to date science on these topics, as the Dietary Guidelines are woefully inadequate.
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:39 am

Latest gut analysis:

Image

Image

Image

I give up. The only thing I can conclude at this point is something in my supplement regime must be acting as an antibiotic. Hey Reub, when are you gonna post yours?
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:33 pm

Image
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by WiseOne » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:27 am

Cool chart, MG. Where did you find it?
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:37 am

Image
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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:32 pm

One word: awesome! I'm gonna use this soon, for sure. WiseOne & Benko, you guys gotta sign up as Medical Detectives and earn some points and moolah (and all around good karma). This is definitely the next level of medicine before AI takes over.
I was inspired to start CrowdMed after watching my little sister suffer for three miserable years with undiagnosed medical condition. As she bounced from doctor to doctor, I witnessed how ill-equipped our medical system is to help people with complex illnesses, thanks to a perfect storm of over-specialization, lack of care coordination, redundant testing, over-medication, misaligned incentives, and more.

Since launching our site in 2013, I’ve read thousands of CrowdMed patient stories eerily similar to my sister’s, and was shocked to learn than 1 out of 3 American families have experienced an unresolved medical issue after seeing multiple physicians. This is why CrowdMed must exist.

The problem is that outside of a few expensive interdisciplinary hospitals, medicine remains an individual sport. CrowdMed is making it a team sport, harnessing the collective intelligence of a global medical community rather than requiring a patient to see one doctor at a time. After resolving 1,500+ real-world medical mysteries to date with dramatic, validated improvements in cost, time, and clinical outcomes, we’ve proven that our approach works much better.

While our company is proud to be backed by some of the top venture capital firms in Silicon Valley, we decided to raise this financing round the same way that we solve patient cases -- by crowdsourcing! This way anyone who supports CrowdMed’s mission and believes in our business model can own a piece of our success, and nothing pleases us more.

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Re: All Things Permanent Health

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:31 pm

If there's been no increase in healthspan since the early 90's that would point the finger at obesity or GMOs. Uh oh!

That Vigj guy sounds uninformed about what exactly life extension is about, but in fairness so are 95% of people. Supplements/drugs, optimal lifestyles, etc. are simply "age deceleration" until fundamental structural approaches are available. The best way to think of it is like a car, but there's a couple of more areas than just an "oil change" at play to get rid of all of the accumulated gunk. There is no built-in age limit, just a cumulative breakdown. There's animals that live a lot longer than humans and those that do have upregulated antioxidant defense or stem cell repair capability.
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Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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