Citizen's Dividend

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Mountaineer
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:29 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:The golden age of activism is in your 20s. My SJW acquaintances are beginning to age out of it as they realize that it doesn't bring in any real money and being dead broke all the time as an adult really sucks. However, older SJW types I know never lose the fire-- they just enter compatible careers, like journalist, magazine editor, lawyer (civil rights or criminal defense, of course) college professor, or head of a nonprofit.
You left out the environmentalists (though perhaps not, depending on if they are in one of the careers you mentioned) and TV preachers. 8)
"Environmentalist" isn't a job. And we must live in very different worlds, because I don't think I've ever heard of a left-leaning SJW-type TV preacher. My impression is that they're all manipulative right-wing loonies.
Some in the EPA might not agree with it not being a job. As for the lefty SJW type TV preachers, you need to get out more; hint - one does not need to be ordained to "preach". ;) For example: https://www.freespeech.org/tags/social-justice and https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 833AArrUZk
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:49 pm

Mountaineer wrote:Some in the EPA might not agree with it not being a job.
People who work for the EPA are regulators and bureaucrats. I stand by what I said: "environmentalist" isn't a job.
Mountaineer wrote: As for the lefty SJW type TV preachers, you need to get out more; hint - one does not need to be ordained to "preach". ;) For example: https://www.freespeech.org/tags/social-justice
Those aren't TV preachers. They're political activists--likely mostly atheists.
Joel Osteen isn't a lefty SJW type. He's a right-leaning prosperity gospel guy.

Oh god, what am I doing? I'm letting myself get dragged into a pedantic, trollish internet argument over definitions. I am now formally stopping!
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:17 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
dualstow wrote:Thank you, Mountaineer, for finding a subset of SJW's that I can actually find common ground with.
You are most welcome. I do hope you stick around on the bright side of the grass for a while before joining those SJWs in that common toasty ground. ;)

Blessings Dude, and stay warm in this freezing weather (at least where I am). It will get very hot eventually.
I hope I get a separate section from the other SJWs, M. Otherwise, that would be hell on ear- well, hell in hell.

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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by farjean2 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:31 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Some in the EPA might not agree with it not being a job.
People who work for the EPA are regulators and bureaucrats. I stand by what I said: "environmentalist" isn't a job.
Mountaineer wrote: As for the lefty SJW type TV preachers, you need to get out more; hint - one does not need to be ordained to "preach". ;) For example: https://www.freespeech.org/tags/social-justice
Those aren't TV preachers. They're political activists--likely mostly atheists.
Joel Osteen isn't a lefty SJW type. He's a right-leaning prosperity gospel guy.

Oh god, what am I doing? I'm letting myself get dragged into a pedantic, trollish internet argument over definitions. I am now formally stopping!
I saw Joel Osteen on television once and if it wasn't the silliest thing I ever heard I don't know what is. He was preaching a sermon about "God's Favor" and how you should recognize it in your life when you see it - like when you are in a parking lot and there is only one space left - that's God's favor. Or you are at the grocery store and suddenly the line in front of you becomes empty - that's God's favor and you should acknowledge it and give thanks to the almighty for being so special to him. I thought to myself, Jesus H. Christ, wouldn't it be better when you came upon a situation like that and you really thought God had anything to do with it, to tell him he didn't need to waste his time because there were a lot of people starving and suffering all over the world and he could help them instead?
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:41 pm

Now you are just being sensible, farjean, and such cold logic is frowned upon.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Xan » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:59 pm

I don't think you'll find anyone here (I could be wrong, but definitely not me and Mountaineer) who is a fan of Joel Osteen and his "gospel".

We're a bit off-track in this thread!
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by farjean2 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:52 pm

Xan wrote:I don't think you'll find anyone here (I could be wrong, but definitely not me and Mountaineer) who is a fan of Joel Osteen and his "gospel".

We're a bit off-track in this thread!
Okay, so to bring it back on track, maybe the question should be would Joel Osteen approve of the Citiziens Dividend? Or better yet, how about the almighty?
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Some in the EPA might not agree with it not being a job.
People who work for the EPA are regulators and bureaucrats. I stand by what I said: "environmentalist" isn't a job.
Mountaineer wrote: As for the lefty SJW type TV preachers, you need to get out more; hint - one does not need to be ordained to "preach". ;) For example: https://www.freespeech.org/tags/social-justice
Those aren't TV preachers. They're political activists--likely mostly atheists.
Joel Osteen isn't a lefty SJW type. He's a right-leaning prosperity gospel guy.

Oh god, what am I doing? I'm letting myself get dragged into a pedantic, trollish internet argument over definitions. I am now formally stopping!
Hook, line, sinker. Got ya! O0 All in good fun, of course. Peace, and, I apologize to my NM friend. Gotta go take in an Osteen show or three now so I can get reprimed for some prosperity. ;D
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:24 pm

farjean2 wrote:
Xan wrote:I don't think you'll find anyone here (I could be wrong, but definitely not me and Mountaineer) who is a fan of Joel Osteen and his "gospel".

We're a bit off-track in this thread!
Okay, so to bring it back on track, maybe the question should be would Joel Osteen approve of the Citiziens Dividend? Or better yet, how about the almighty?
I think the Almighty might say, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's, and perhaps throw in a - I've told you this a thousand times, stop your naval gazing and pay attention to what is eternally important. Just guessing. :)
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:33 pm

TennPaGa wrote:
dualstow wrote:It just occurred to me that too many people would become professional protesters.
(shudder)
You mean some people would quit their paying jobs and do something else? That would likely happen. And some of these people would spend more time at protests? Like Tea Party meetings or anti-abortion rallies? I suppose that could happen too.

As to whether it would be "too many"... I'm not sure how to say.
I think a real honest to goodness Citizens Dividend would be to stop murdering the future citizens who are humans but not yet born. However, framing the reality of murder as womens' rights is oh so much more PC.
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:45 pm

M, could you not drag abortion into this, too? Your position is well known, same as perdition.

Tenn: I don't think job holders would quit so they could protest, but I do think non-workers would be more free to protest. They wouldn't need sponsors to sustain them.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:38 pm

dualstow wrote:M, could you not drag abortion into this, too? Your position is well known, same as perdition.

Tenn: I don't think job holders would quit so they could protest, but I do think non-workers would be more free to protest. They wouldn't need sponsors to sustain them.
dualstow, that is a very reasonable request. From my perspective, it would be far more reasonable if you refuted facts, or presented a case of your own rather than just dismissing a comment because of who said it and their position. What good is a Citizen's Dividend if we are murdering those who might benefit? It seems we tend on this forum to spend much time discussing non-core importance items rather than many of ultimate importance. I doubt my tombstone will say anything about my investing accumen, how much gold I purchased, whether or not I followed the PP or Boglehead style of investing, or how many concerts I attended. The reason I stay on this forum is I value the discussion, the opinions, and learning about the worldviews of the participants on a variety of topics because I think the participants are a cut above the normal in intelligence. I think the topic of infanticide and Citizen's Dividend are very closely connected. Squelching comments that are political or religious in nature just because it is not PC is more reflective of the intolerant, "tolerant" left that only values hearing from those within their bubble - hello Hollywood. It comes across as more like the judge who ruled against Trump's travel ban just because it was Trump that said it rather than what the Law says. Personally, I like to hear all sides, even those I think are way off reality or way off all the evidence that is in front of our eyes, if we just open those eyes to see. My opinion, YMMV.
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:47 pm

Mountaineer, it's getting really tiresome how your contributions to every single thread you participate in amount to relating it to God, or abortion, or your religious faith in some other capacity. We all get it. You're a proud member of the LCMS church and your faith is central to you in your remaining years. But abortion has no relationship whatsoever to the proposed "Citizen's Dividend" idea. Imagine how frustrating it would be if I were a radical environmentalist and I was constantly posting stuff like, "What good is a Citizen's Dividend if we're despoiling the planet that sustains those who might benefit?"

It's like, sure, that's a valid point, but go discuss it in a thread about environmentalism.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:59 pm

Pointedstick wrote:Mountaineer, it's getting really tiresome how your contributions to every single thread you participate in amount to relating it to God, or abortion, or your religious faith in some other capacity. We all get it. You're a proud member of the LCMS church and your faith is central to you in your remaining years. But abortion has no relationship whatsoever to the proposed "Citizen's Dividend" idea. Imagine how frustrating it would be if I were a radical environmentalist and I was constantly posting stuff like, "What good is a Citizen's Dividend if we're despoiling the planet that sustains those who might benefit?"

It's like, sure, that's a valid point, but go discuss it in a thread about environmentalism.
PS, I value your comments. However, on this one I disagree - I think if you objectively consider infanticide and the idea of a Citizen's Dividend you will see a connection; I also see that I may be wrong about that - I see lots of connections that others do not, and vice versa. Of course, you are free to ignore my posts if they are tiresome. I turn the channel on a lot of stations I think promote harmful ideas. And, of course the moderators are free to ban me if they wish. As to your frustration comment: I actually think I'm open enough that if you constantly posted material on environmentalism (love those 'isms) I'd at least try to understand your view and probably do a whole lot of asking about why you hold that view rather than discounting it out of hand just because my preconceived notion would say you are wacko.
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:Mountaineer, it's getting really tiresome how your contributions to every single thread you participate in amount to relating it to God, or abortion, or your religious faith in some other capacity. We all get it. You're a proud member of the LCMS church and your faith is central to you in your remaining years. But abortion has no relationship whatsoever to the proposed "Citizen's Dividend" idea. Imagine how frustrating it would be if I were a radical environmentalist and I was constantly posting stuff like, "What good is a Citizen's Dividend if we're despoiling the planet that sustains those who might benefit?"

It's like, sure, that's a valid point, but go discuss it in a thread about environmentalism.
PS, I value your comments. However, on this one I disagree - I think if you objectively consider infanticide and the idea of a Citizen's Dividend you will see a connection; I also see that I may be wrong about that - I see lots of connections that others do not, and vice versa. Of course, you are free to ignore my posts if they are tiresome. I turn the channel on a lot of stations I think promote harmful ideas. And, of course the moderators are free to ban me if they wish. As to your frustration comment: I actually think I'm open enough that if you constantly posted material on environmentalism (love those 'isms) I'd at least try to understand your view and probably do a whole lot of asking about why you hold that view rather than discounting it out of hand just because my preconceived notion would say you are wacko.
Mountaineer, I value your comments. However, on this one I disagree - I think if you objectively consider the destruction of the environment and the idea of a Citizen's Dividend you will see a connection; I also see that I may be wrong about that - I see lots of connections that others do not, and vice versa. Of course, you are free to ignore my posts if they are tiresome. I turn the channel on a lot of stations I think promote harmful ideas. And, of course the moderators are free to ban me if they wish. As to your frustration comment: I actually think I'm open enough that if you constantly posted material on religion, I'd at least try to understand your view and probably do a whole lot of asking about why you hold that view rather than discounting it out of hand just because my preconceived notion would say you are wacko.

---

YMMV, just my two cents, all in good fun! In the end we're all a bunch of sinners land rapists who will reap what we sow today! ;)
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:13 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
farjean2 wrote:
Xan wrote:I don't think you'll find anyone here (I could be wrong, but definitely not me and Mountaineer) who is a fan of Joel Osteen and his "gospel".

We're a bit off-track in this thread!
Okay, so to bring it back on track, maybe the question should be would Joel Osteen approve of the Citiziens Dividend? Or better yet, how about the almighty?
I think the Almighty might say, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's, and perhaps throw in a - I've told you this a thousand times, stop your naval gazing and pay attention to what is eternally important. Just guessing. :)
So they have submarine races where you are too? :)
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:Mountaineer, it's getting really tiresome how your contributions to every single thread you participate in amount to relating it to God, or abortion, or your religious faith in some other capacity. We all get it. You're a proud member of the LCMS church and your faith is central to you in your remaining years. But abortion has no relationship whatsoever to the proposed "Citizen's Dividend" idea. Imagine how frustrating it would be if I were a radical environmentalist and I was constantly posting stuff like, "What good is a Citizen's Dividend if we're despoiling the planet that sustains those who might benefit?"

It's like, sure, that's a valid point, but go discuss it in a thread about environmentalism.
PS, I value your comments. However, on this one I disagree - I think if you objectively consider infanticide and the idea of a Citizen's Dividend you will see a connection; I also see that I may be wrong about that - I see lots of connections that others do not, and vice versa. Of course, you are free to ignore my posts if they are tiresome. I turn the channel on a lot of stations I think promote harmful ideas. And, of course the moderators are free to ban me if they wish. As to your frustration comment: I actually think I'm open enough that if you constantly posted material on environmentalism (love those 'isms) I'd at least try to understand your view and probably do a whole lot of asking about why you hold that view rather than discounting it out of hand just because my preconceived notion would say you are wacko.
Mountaineer, I value your comments. However, on this one I disagree - I think if you objectively consider the destruction of the environment and the idea of a Citizen's Dividend you will see a connection; I also see that I may be wrong about that - I see lots of connections that others do not, and vice versa. Of course, you are free to ignore my posts if they are tiresome. I turn the channel on a lot of stations I think promote harmful ideas. And, of course the moderators are free to ban me if they wish. As to your frustration comment: I actually think I'm open enough that if you constantly posted material on religion, I'd at least try to understand your view and probably do a whole lot of asking about why you hold that view rather than discounting it out of hand just because my preconceived notion would say you are wacko.

---

YMMV, just my two cents, all in good fun! In the end we're all a bunch of sinners land rapists who will reap what we sow today! ;)
OK, you got me, I yield to the master. But, I am forgiven. Those stinking land rapists will become filthy rich and are rarely forgiven ... unless they run for office ... or become a TV talking head ... or move to NM. By the way, have you visited the Trinity site? - there's another Citizen's Dividend connection for you to ponder. ;)
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:37 pm

What PS said.
Mountaineer wrote: What good is a Citizen's Dividend if we are murdering those who might benefit
Ehh...more for the rest of us? Seriously, you've been asked by a mod now, so how about this:
Put it in the abortion thread or in a new one, and I promise to read it. I don't mean to squelch. O0
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:55 pm

sophie wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:45 am
Switzerland's guaranteed income referendum went down. 78% of voters voted against:

http://www.oann.com/swiss-voters-to-dec ... come-plan/

The main complaint was that the plan would be too expensive. It was $2500 francs/month per adult and $625/month per child. That's an absurdly high "basic" income level, even given the high living costs in Switzerland. A shame, because it would have been nice for the first vote on a citizen's dividend to be on a realistic plan.
We've discussed this recently here. And, this is part of Yang's plans.

Until reading this here just now I had no idea regarding Switzerland having had an actual vote regarding it.

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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:19 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:47 am
The golden age of activism is in your 20s. My SJW acquaintances are beginning to age out of it as they realize that it doesn't bring in any real money and being dead broke all the time as an adult really sucks. However, older SJW types I know never lose the fire-- they just enter compatible careers, like journalist, magazine editor, lawyer (civil rights or criminal defense, of course) college professor, or head of a nonprofit.
Or, in the extreme.....become a major in Vermont, then go to the Senate and then perpetually run for president while somehow also doing his senatorial duties!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:23 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:19 pm
Pointedstick wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:47 am
The golden age of activism is in your 20s. My SJW acquaintances are beginning to age out of it as they realize that it doesn't bring in any real money and being dead broke all the time as an adult really sucks. However, older SJW types I know never lose the fire-- they just enter compatible careers, like journalist, magazine editor, lawyer (civil rights or criminal defense, of course) college professor, or head of a nonprofit.
Or, in the extreme.....become a major in Vermont, then go to the Senate and then perpetually run for president while somehow also doing his senatorial duties!

Vinny
Fortunately for him (and maybe the rest of us) he hasn't bothered much with his Senatorial duties, having almost no legislation to his credit. If "credit" is the right word.
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