Perhaps optional, but very helpful. There is much data on the health benefits of various vegies/fruits/legumes/herbs/spices. Again see nutritionfacts.orgPointedstick wrote: Interestingly, fruits and vegetables appear mostly optional, even for the relatively sedentary Icelanders (compared to Rwandans, at least).
Reversing Diabetes
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
Oh I've got nothing against veggies at all; I love 'em. And the vegetables are definitely dominant in our diet, even if we're not vegetarians. In fact just tonight I cooked a homemade Moo Goo Gai Pan dish that had bok choy, mushrooms, green onions, ginger, garlic, bamboo shoots and water chestnuts, as well as a little bit of chicken. It was delicious. Gotta start using brown rice, though.
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
Hmm, its too bad that phosphatidylserine is relatively expensive as a supplement. I no longer take soy lecithin for choline as I deal with the methylation pathway with creatine and TMG now.Benko wrote: Also check out: http://examine.com/faq/what-beneficial- ... ucts/ (which supports MG).
That's because vegetable protein is generally low quality, as evidenced by the PDCAAS:It is not the same in my experience. I'm very much a believer in that there is no ONE diet best for everyone. But I have (really had) too much inflammation in my body and it has changed by eating shitloads of veggies/fruits/beans/herbs (some of what the vegan MD above advocates). However when I eat beef I feel dramatically better, energized. So I'm going to continue to eat 5 oz of beef 3 times/week. And still eat animal protein e.g. salmon, chicken,etc once or twice a day for the moment.
1.00 casein
1.00 egg white
1.00 soy protein
1.00 whey
0.99 mycoprotein
0.92 beef
0.87 Sacha Inchi Powder
0.78 chickpeas
0.76 fruits
0.75 black beans
0.73 vegetables
0.70 other peas
0.64 yellow split pea
0.59 cereals and derivatives
0.52 peanuts
0.50 rices
0.42 whole wheat
0.25 wheat gluten
The above values don't take into account the "toxic" anti-nutrients in grains, etc.. I wasn't even aware that that "toxic" anti-nutrients could impede amino acids, not just minerals! Another annoying problem is you can't combine individual foods and sum to get a total score.
I think mycoprotein is that fake meat stuff made out of mushrooms that's popular in Europe; unfortunately they use egg as a binder.
I wonder where potato would have ranked because those all-potato diets seemed to provide enough protein in the short-term.
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
You're making me hungry!!! Be sure you buy vacuum-sealed brown rice and keep it in the fridge; otherwise the oils in it will be rancid. It's not a fact Americans are very aware of. And ideally, non-fortified also.Pointedstick wrote: Oh I've got nothing against veggies at all; I love 'em. And the vegetables are definitely dominant in our diet, even if we're not vegetarians. In fact just tonight I cooked a homemade Moo Goo Gai Pan dish that had bok choy, mushrooms, green onions, ginger, garlic, bamboo shoots and water chestnuts, as well as a little bit of chicken. It was delicious. Gotta start using brown rice, though.
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
Do you know of any good sources, MG? Also, I'd also prefer to buy Californian Basmati brown rice since that's what Consumer Reports found had the least arsenic of any of the samples they found. I'm find with bulk storage in a big plastic container with a Gamma Seal lid full of desiccants (I have a ton of those left over from a chemistry project).
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
'fraid not. I eat white rice so I don't have to deal with the issue. I did find some vacuum-sealed brown rice at Amazon, but it didn't look cheap. Perhaps your best bet is a Japanese or Asian grocery store?Pointedstick wrote: Do you know of any good sources, MG? Also, I'd also prefer to buy Californian Basmati brown rice since that's what Consumer Reports found had the least arsenic of any of the samples they found. I'm find with bulk storage in a big plastic container with a Gamma Seal lid full of desiccants (I have a ton of those left over from a chemistry project).
Check this out: http://www.aaccnet.org/publications/cc/ ... 63_247.pdf
This might be a good bet: https://www.ifsbulk.com/long-grain-brown-rice
Email and ask how they package it. Usually a 50 lb bag will last a year unopened.
Also: http://shop.honeyville.com/long-grain-b ... -50lb.html
I buy my dextrose from them. Also: http://www.trinidadbenham.com/beans-ric ... gions.html
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sun May 01, 2016 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
[img width=800]http://i.imgur.com/8NV1DQh.png[/img]
Hey Reub, give this a gander: http://www.modcarb.com/
Hey Reub, give this a gander: http://www.modcarb.com/
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Re: Reversing Diabetes
Thanks! I'll look at it.
Right now I'm contemplating the fact that inflammation has been directly linked to type two diabetes and insulin resistance:
http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092 ... all%3Dtrue
"Impaired insulin-mediated suppression of hepatic glucose production (HGP) plays a major role in the pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes (T2D), yet the molecular mechanism by which this occurs remains unknown. Using a novel in vivo metabolomics approach, we show that the major mechanism by which insulin suppresses HGP is through reductions in hepatic acetyl CoA by suppression of lipolysis in white adipose tissue (WAT) leading to reductions in pyruvate carboxylase flux. This mechanism was confirmed in mice and rats with genetic ablation of insulin signaling and mice lacking adipose triglyceride lipase. Insulin’s ability to suppress hepatic acetyl CoA, PC activity, and lipolysis was lost in high-fat-fed rats, a phenomenon reversible by IL-6 neutralization and inducible by IL-6 infusion. Taken together, these data identify WAT-derived hepatic acetyl CoA as the main regulator of HGP by insulin and link it to inflammation-induced hepatic insulin resistance associated with obesity and T2D."
From what my feeble brain can gather from this, it seems that the inflammatory cytokine called IL-6, if neutralized, will allow for the drastic increase in hepatic insulin sensitivity, thereby reducing hepatic insulin production. I am in the process of adding supplements to my regimin that will drastically reduce IL-6 inflammatory cytokines in my body, those being Curcumin, Carnitine, Gingko, Vitamin C, Luteolin, black tea, TMG, CoQ10 and pomegranate seed extract. I expect these to drastically reduce IL-6 inflammation and will be monitoring for any subsequent improvement in my blood glucose levels.
Right now I'm contemplating the fact that inflammation has been directly linked to type two diabetes and insulin resistance:
http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092 ... all%3Dtrue
"Impaired insulin-mediated suppression of hepatic glucose production (HGP) plays a major role in the pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes (T2D), yet the molecular mechanism by which this occurs remains unknown. Using a novel in vivo metabolomics approach, we show that the major mechanism by which insulin suppresses HGP is through reductions in hepatic acetyl CoA by suppression of lipolysis in white adipose tissue (WAT) leading to reductions in pyruvate carboxylase flux. This mechanism was confirmed in mice and rats with genetic ablation of insulin signaling and mice lacking adipose triglyceride lipase. Insulin’s ability to suppress hepatic acetyl CoA, PC activity, and lipolysis was lost in high-fat-fed rats, a phenomenon reversible by IL-6 neutralization and inducible by IL-6 infusion. Taken together, these data identify WAT-derived hepatic acetyl CoA as the main regulator of HGP by insulin and link it to inflammation-induced hepatic insulin resistance associated with obesity and T2D."
From what my feeble brain can gather from this, it seems that the inflammatory cytokine called IL-6, if neutralized, will allow for the drastic increase in hepatic insulin sensitivity, thereby reducing hepatic insulin production. I am in the process of adding supplements to my regimin that will drastically reduce IL-6 inflammatory cytokines in my body, those being Curcumin, Carnitine, Gingko, Vitamin C, Luteolin, black tea, TMG, CoQ10 and pomegranate seed extract. I expect these to drastically reduce IL-6 inflammation and will be monitoring for any subsequent improvement in my blood glucose levels.
Last edited by Reub on Sat May 07, 2016 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
This is what "Sarcopenic Vegan" Dr. Gregor recommends EACH AND EVERY SINGLE DAY (!!!):
- Three servings of beans.
- Two servings of greens.
- Two servings of other vegetables, including asparagus, artichokes, beets, carrots, peppers, corn, onions, potatoes, snap peas, squash, tomatoes or zucchini.
- At least one serving of berries.
- Three servings a day of other fruits: oranges, apricots, bananas, grapefruit, peaches, pears, pomegranates, mangoes, etc.
- One tablespoon of ground flaxseed.
- Three servings of whole grains.
- At least one serving of cruciferous vegetables: broccoli, cabbage, collards, kale or Brussels sprouts.
- One serving of nuts or seeds, including almonds, Brazil nuts, cashews, chia seeds, macadamia nuts, pecans, pistachios, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds and walnuts.
- One-quarter teaspoon of ground turmeric.
- Five glasses of water.
- One serving of exercise, ideally either 45 minutes of vigorous exercise (like running) or 90 minutes of moderate exercise (like brisk walking).
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sun May 08, 2016 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Re: Reversing Diabetes
MG,
Benko Rule #1 There is no diet that works for everyone. People need to find what works for them, while realizing that it may not be optimal for others.
"If one doesn't develop food interolances/allergies to this stuff, I'd be amazed"
Not everyone has gut issues, or will develop them on his diet. People with gut issues should obviously skip the grains, but most anyone can e.g. eat sweet potatoes (orange and purple) and probably other veggies, as well as berries and spices.
I've been trying a bunch of his advice AS AN EXPERIMENT and after a coupla weeks, my acupuncturist told me that a number of imbalances that I'd had for awhile disappeared. No idea if that is because of A. less animal protein (no longer at every meal/day) B increased veggies/fruits/herbs/spices. or C both.
I am not recommending Gregor's diet to anyone, just exposing people to an interesting source of info to try some, or much if you wish. His info is interesting because he is a physician who spends his time reading the medical literature on human nutritional studies and produces very frequent videos tell people what the studies show. Even if he is 100% wrong on animal protein (I have no clue) he presents a lot of interesting info on fruit/veggies/legumes/spices/herbs. For example:
--Eating Kiwi fruit induces DNA repair enzymes,
--Eating beans improves your body's glycemic response to meals eaten even the next day, and
--Although fruit contains sugar, adding fruit to a meal improves the body's glycemic response to that meal. This was done with berries (I think).
Benko Rule #1 There is no diet that works for everyone. People need to find what works for them, while realizing that it may not be optimal for others.
"If one doesn't develop food interolances/allergies to this stuff, I'd be amazed"
Not everyone has gut issues, or will develop them on his diet. People with gut issues should obviously skip the grains, but most anyone can e.g. eat sweet potatoes (orange and purple) and probably other veggies, as well as berries and spices.
I've been trying a bunch of his advice AS AN EXPERIMENT and after a coupla weeks, my acupuncturist told me that a number of imbalances that I'd had for awhile disappeared. No idea if that is because of A. less animal protein (no longer at every meal/day) B increased veggies/fruits/herbs/spices. or C both.
I am not recommending Gregor's diet to anyone, just exposing people to an interesting source of info to try some, or much if you wish. His info is interesting because he is a physician who spends his time reading the medical literature on human nutritional studies and produces very frequent videos tell people what the studies show. Even if he is 100% wrong on animal protein (I have no clue) he presents a lot of interesting info on fruit/veggies/legumes/spices/herbs. For example:
--Eating Kiwi fruit induces DNA repair enzymes,
--Eating beans improves your body's glycemic response to meals eaten even the next day, and
--Although fruit contains sugar, adding fruit to a meal improves the body's glycemic response to that meal. This was done with berries (I think).
Last edited by Benko on Sun May 08, 2016 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
I suspect if you replace the toxin-laden legumes* with high quality lean animal protein, it would be an interesting diet challenge to try. The mean planning alone would be challenging. And it doesn't look cheap either.
BTW jafs, in my lingo "high quality protein" is not about taking in all of the essential amino acids at once which is an outdated concept, but the protein being of sufficient quantity and quality to initiate anabolism which gets harder and harder to do as one gets older. Plant-derived proteins are just terrible for that which is why you get "Sarcopenic Vegans" if they manage to stick out their extremism against all odds.
* I react to legumes similarly as I do to wheat gluten (blurry/tunnel vision, eye pressure, foggy brain) except without the eventual headaches. I wish there was an easily indentifiable cause and a fix.
BTW jafs, in my lingo "high quality protein" is not about taking in all of the essential amino acids at once which is an outdated concept, but the protein being of sufficient quantity and quality to initiate anabolism which gets harder and harder to do as one gets older. Plant-derived proteins are just terrible for that which is why you get "Sarcopenic Vegans" if they manage to stick out their extremism against all odds.
* I react to legumes similarly as I do to wheat gluten (blurry/tunnel vision, eye pressure, foggy brain) except without the eventual headaches. I wish there was an easily indentifiable cause and a fix.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sun May 08, 2016 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Re: Reversing Diabetes
I should probably add that I'm not going to eat less meat than 5 ounces beef 3 times a week. Probably some salmon as well. Beef is because when I eat it I feel energized i.e. my body clearly likes it.
"I react to legumes similarly as I do to wheat gluten (blurry/tunnel vision, eye pressure, foggy brain) except without the eventual headaches. I wish there was an easily indentifiable cause and a fix.
I'm assuming you've tried digestive enzymes that work on beans. Cause? Something is not quite right in your gut. If you're open to experimenting,, I know something that might improve your gut. You have to give it trial though say 3 months. Start by taking 1/4 or less of capsule once per day in the morning and work up to full capsule over week or so. It is called triphala and is used to normalize digestion/assimilation. It comes from ayurvedic medicine.
You may do fine one or more caps/tabs per day but I say to start slowly since some people will get diarrhea/cramps if they start at full dose. If you experience symptoms lower dose and hang in there for few days.
WARNING: indian suppliers are less than optimal about QC. I know Banyan botanicals and Himalayan herbs have good QC for these herbs. Not sure about other suppliers.
"I react to legumes similarly as I do to wheat gluten (blurry/tunnel vision, eye pressure, foggy brain) except without the eventual headaches. I wish there was an easily indentifiable cause and a fix.
I'm assuming you've tried digestive enzymes that work on beans. Cause? Something is not quite right in your gut. If you're open to experimenting,, I know something that might improve your gut. You have to give it trial though say 3 months. Start by taking 1/4 or less of capsule once per day in the morning and work up to full capsule over week or so. It is called triphala and is used to normalize digestion/assimilation. It comes from ayurvedic medicine.
You may do fine one or more caps/tabs per day but I say to start slowly since some people will get diarrhea/cramps if they start at full dose. If you experience symptoms lower dose and hang in there for few days.
WARNING: indian suppliers are less than optimal about QC. I know Banyan botanicals and Himalayan herbs have good QC for these herbs. Not sure about other suppliers.
It was good being the party of Robin Hood. Until they morphed into the Sheriff of Nottingham
Re: Reversing Diabetes
Hi,
From what I know eating a lot of fresh fruits and vegtables and avoiding processed food - because it has a lot of added sugar (did you know that the food industry has 61 names for sugar...).
Food that is consumed from it's natural form either fresh or cooked (apples, bananas carrots, lentils etc.) helps the health of the liver and the pancreas.
Here are few youtube videos about that:
From what I know eating a lot of fresh fruits and vegtables and avoiding processed food - because it has a lot of added sugar (did you know that the food industry has 61 names for sugar...).
Food that is consumed from it's natural form either fresh or cooked (apples, bananas carrots, lentils etc.) helps the health of the liver and the pancreas.
Here are few youtube videos about that:
- Fed Up 2014https://youtu.be/Y647tNm8nTI?list=PLiZG ... cH6EHMfT9f
- A BBC Documentaryhttps://youtu.be/K4LzSH9qU_Q?list=PLiZG ... cH6EHMfT9f
- A discussion in the University of California https://youtu.be/XM0vyUUvO9E?list=PLiZG ... cH6EHMfT9f
- Sugar: The Bitter Truth also from the University of Californiahttps://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM?list=PLiZG ... cH6EHMfT9f
- MachineGhost
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
Tried it already. Trust me, I've tried it all. Nothing ever makes a difference. Nor am I confident it is even my gut, though that is the logical assumption.Benko wrote: I'm assuming you've tried digestive enzymes that work on beans. Cause? Something is not quite right in your gut. If you're open to experimenting,, I know something that might improve your gut. You have to give it trial though say 3 months. Start by taking 1/4 or less of capsule once per day in the morning and work up to full capsule over week or so. It is called triphala and is used to normalize digestion/assimilation. It comes from ayurvedic medicine.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Reversing Diabetes
Guess I can stop worrying about my thyroid hormones and maybe I should even eat more carbs. Yeah, right!
But note that the lazy S.A.D. (standard american diet) bums were eating 2400 calories a day compared to 1800 practicing C.R.A.N. (calorie restriction with adequate nutrition). If you can get by with 1800 what with being a lazy bum also, are you really that surprised you wake up one day to find yourself a S.V.O.L. (sedentary vat of lard) from eating 2400? The macro-composition was virtually the same among all groups.
[quote=http://press.endocrine.org/doi/10.1210/jc.2006-0328]Data from a series of studies have shown that short-term (2 wk to 6 months) fasting or severe CR decreases serum T3 and transiently increases serum rT3 concentrations in obese subjects who are actively losing weight (9). Similar findings have been reported in a study of eight nonobese individuals who unintentionally underwent moderate CR and intense physical labor (70–80 h/wk) for 21 months (3). In addition, the results from some studies (9, 10, 11) suggest that a low-carbohydrate intake (50–120 g/d) can prevent the fall in serum T3 and particularly the rise in serum rT3 concentration induced by CR. Carbohydrate intake in our CR subjects was approximately 250 g/d, which may have contributed to their normal serum rT3 concentrations. Therefore, our findings provide evidence that long-term CR in sedentary lean, weight-stable subjects causes similar but persistent changes in thyroid hormones as previously reported during short-term fasting or CR in obese subjects who were continuing to experience active diet-induced weight loss.
Patients who have the sick euthyroid syndrome also have low serum T3 concentrations (12). However, these patients have systemic nonthyroidal illnesses, such as cancer, myocardial infarction, severe infections, and major injuries (6, 12). Therefore, it is likely that inflammation, rather than decreased calorie intake, is responsible for the reduction in serum T3 concentrations in patients with sick euthyroid syndrome (13). In fact, infusion of proinflammatory cytokines in human subjects decreases serum T3 concentration (14, 15). Moreover, the decline in serum T3 concentration induced by illness is blunted in IL-6 knockout mice, which supports the notion that cytokines are involved in the pathogenesis of the sick euthyroid syndrome (16). The mechanism responsible for this response is probably related to a cytokine-induced reduction in type I iodothyronine-5?-monodeiodinase expression, which results in decreased conversion of T4 to T3 in extrathyroidal tissues and decreased serum T3 concentrations (6, 13, 14, 15, 16). In contrast, low serum T3 concentration was not associated with an increase in inflammatory cytokines in our CR subjects. In fact, markers of systemic inflammation, serum CRP and TNF? concentrations, were low in our CR subjects. These findings are consistent with data from CR studies conducted in rodents and monkeys, which showed that CR caused a marked decrease in markers of inflammation and a reduction in serum T3 concentration (7, 8, 17, 18). The combination of decreased serum T3 and reduced systemic inflammation could alter the aging process by reducing metabolic rate, oxidative stress, and systemic inflammation (1, 19, 20).
In conclusion, the results of this study demonstrate that long-term CR, with adequate intake of protein and micronutrients, in healthy lean and weight-stable subjects is associated with sustained low serum T3 concentration, similar to that found in calorie-restricted rodents and monkeys. This effect is likely due to CR itself, rather than a decrease in body fat mass, and could be involved in slowing the rate of aging.[/quote]
But note that the lazy S.A.D. (standard american diet) bums were eating 2400 calories a day compared to 1800 practicing C.R.A.N. (calorie restriction with adequate nutrition). If you can get by with 1800 what with being a lazy bum also, are you really that surprised you wake up one day to find yourself a S.V.O.L. (sedentary vat of lard) from eating 2400? The macro-composition was virtually the same among all groups.
[quote=http://press.endocrine.org/doi/10.1210/jc.2006-0328]Data from a series of studies have shown that short-term (2 wk to 6 months) fasting or severe CR decreases serum T3 and transiently increases serum rT3 concentrations in obese subjects who are actively losing weight (9). Similar findings have been reported in a study of eight nonobese individuals who unintentionally underwent moderate CR and intense physical labor (70–80 h/wk) for 21 months (3). In addition, the results from some studies (9, 10, 11) suggest that a low-carbohydrate intake (50–120 g/d) can prevent the fall in serum T3 and particularly the rise in serum rT3 concentration induced by CR. Carbohydrate intake in our CR subjects was approximately 250 g/d, which may have contributed to their normal serum rT3 concentrations. Therefore, our findings provide evidence that long-term CR in sedentary lean, weight-stable subjects causes similar but persistent changes in thyroid hormones as previously reported during short-term fasting or CR in obese subjects who were continuing to experience active diet-induced weight loss.
Patients who have the sick euthyroid syndrome also have low serum T3 concentrations (12). However, these patients have systemic nonthyroidal illnesses, such as cancer, myocardial infarction, severe infections, and major injuries (6, 12). Therefore, it is likely that inflammation, rather than decreased calorie intake, is responsible for the reduction in serum T3 concentrations in patients with sick euthyroid syndrome (13). In fact, infusion of proinflammatory cytokines in human subjects decreases serum T3 concentration (14, 15). Moreover, the decline in serum T3 concentration induced by illness is blunted in IL-6 knockout mice, which supports the notion that cytokines are involved in the pathogenesis of the sick euthyroid syndrome (16). The mechanism responsible for this response is probably related to a cytokine-induced reduction in type I iodothyronine-5?-monodeiodinase expression, which results in decreased conversion of T4 to T3 in extrathyroidal tissues and decreased serum T3 concentrations (6, 13, 14, 15, 16). In contrast, low serum T3 concentration was not associated with an increase in inflammatory cytokines in our CR subjects. In fact, markers of systemic inflammation, serum CRP and TNF? concentrations, were low in our CR subjects. These findings are consistent with data from CR studies conducted in rodents and monkeys, which showed that CR caused a marked decrease in markers of inflammation and a reduction in serum T3 concentration (7, 8, 17, 18). The combination of decreased serum T3 and reduced systemic inflammation could alter the aging process by reducing metabolic rate, oxidative stress, and systemic inflammation (1, 19, 20).
In conclusion, the results of this study demonstrate that long-term CR, with adequate intake of protein and micronutrients, in healthy lean and weight-stable subjects is associated with sustained low serum T3 concentration, similar to that found in calorie-restricted rodents and monkeys. This effect is likely due to CR itself, rather than a decrease in body fat mass, and could be involved in slowing the rate of aging.[/quote]
Last edited by MachineGhost on Mon May 09, 2016 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Re: Reversing Diabetes
I had to look up sarcopenia - never heard of it before.MachineGhost wrote: I suspect if you replace the toxin-laden legumes* with high quality lean animal protein, it would be an interesting diet challenge to try. The mean planning alone would be challenging. And it doesn't look cheap either.
BTW jafs, in my lingo "high quality protein" is not about taking in all of the essential amino acids at once which is an outdated concept, but the protein being of sufficient quantity and quality to initiate anabolism which gets harder and harder to do as one gets older. Plant-derived proteins are just terrible for that which is why you get "Sarcopenic Vegans" if they manage to stick out their extremism against all odds.
* I react to legumes similarly as I do to wheat gluten (blurry/tunnel vision, eye pressure, foggy brain) except without the eventual headaches. I wish there was an easily indentifiable cause and a fix.
The more common recommendation to prevent it is exercise, not diet. And there seems to be a lot that isn't known yet - more research is needed. My first thoughts would be exercise, including weights (which I should do more), and perhaps calcium, which is harder to get as a vegan unless you eat a lot of leafy greens.
Sorry to hear you can't eat legumes - I've also never heard of that problem with them before. The fact that you can't doesn't indicate that they're "toxic laden", of course. You may just have some sort of physiological problem.
Have you discussed this with a doctor?
Since you've "tried everything", I assume you've tried probiotics like acidophilus.
Last edited by jafs on Mon May 09, 2016 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Reversing Diabetes
I did some more quick searching about sarcopenia.
Ironically, meat is often mentioned as contributing to it, if we're looking at diet!
It's true that there is a recommendation for older folks to get more protein, which is interesting. And, it's recommended that people get good protein at each meal, rather than just at dinner. I try to do that already, and also snack on proteins like nuts periodically throughout the day.
I should do weights more - maybe this will inspire me to do that.
And, as I get older, I'll talk with my doctor about it, and make sure that I'm not losing muscle mass (or too much - it may be impossible to avoid losing some as we age).
Ironically, meat is often mentioned as contributing to it, if we're looking at diet!
It's true that there is a recommendation for older folks to get more protein, which is interesting. And, it's recommended that people get good protein at each meal, rather than just at dinner. I try to do that already, and also snack on proteins like nuts periodically throughout the day.
I should do weights more - maybe this will inspire me to do that.
And, as I get older, I'll talk with my doctor about it, and make sure that I'm not losing muscle mass (or too much - it may be impossible to avoid losing some as we age).
Re: Reversing Diabetes
Why do you have to talk to your doctor to begin some resistance exercises? Do you think that he/she knows about them? From what I've seen most doctors are unhealthy themselves.
I've been reading about the usefulness of whey protein on insulin, blood sugar, weight loss and diabetes. I'm in the process of going to a whey protein breakfast shake or at least adding the drink to my late breakfast/early lunch. It seems that whey can be a godsend (sorry MG) when it comes to diabetes.
" After 12 weeks, the group on whey protein lost
the most weight: 7.6 kg (16.7 pounds),
compared to 6.1 kg (13.4 pounds) for those on
the other proteins, and 3.1 kg (6.8 pounds) for
those in the carbohydrate group.
Whey protein diet participants were more
satiated and less hungry throughout the day, with
lower glucose spikes after meals compared to
the other two diets, and their HbA1C also
decreased more than with the other two diets.
"The whey protein diet significantly suppresses
the hunger hormone 'ghrelin.' A whey protein
drink is easily prepared and provides the
advantages of a high-protein breakfast on weight
loss, reduction of hunger, glucose spikes and
HbA1c," Jakubowicz said."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 111253.htm
I've been reading about the usefulness of whey protein on insulin, blood sugar, weight loss and diabetes. I'm in the process of going to a whey protein breakfast shake or at least adding the drink to my late breakfast/early lunch. It seems that whey can be a godsend (sorry MG) when it comes to diabetes.
" After 12 weeks, the group on whey protein lost
the most weight: 7.6 kg (16.7 pounds),
compared to 6.1 kg (13.4 pounds) for those on
the other proteins, and 3.1 kg (6.8 pounds) for
those in the carbohydrate group.
Whey protein diet participants were more
satiated and less hungry throughout the day, with
lower glucose spikes after meals compared to
the other two diets, and their HbA1C also
decreased more than with the other two diets.
"The whey protein diet significantly suppresses
the hunger hormone 'ghrelin.' A whey protein
drink is easily prepared and provides the
advantages of a high-protein breakfast on weight
loss, reduction of hunger, glucose spikes and
HbA1c," Jakubowicz said."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 111253.htm
Last edited by Reub on Mon May 09, 2016 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Reversing Diabetes
I meant talk to him about sarcopenia in general.
Doctors do have quite a bit of useful information, if you have a good doctor.
Obviously I can just do more weights on my own.
Doctors do have quite a bit of useful information, if you have a good doctor.
Obviously I can just do more weights on my own.
- Cortopassi
- Executive Member
- Posts: 3338
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- Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html
Re: Reversing Diabetes
This just came up on a board I read, it is from last year:
http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0 ... 3/abstract
Abstract
The inability of current recommendations to control the epidemic of diabetes, the specific failure of the prevailing low-fat diets to improve obesity, cardiovascular risk, or general health and the persistent reports of some serious side effects of commonly prescribed diabetic medications, in combination with the continued success of low-carbohydrate diets in the treatment of diabetes and metabolic syndrome without significant side effects, point to the need for a reappraisal of dietary guidelines. The benefits of carbohydrate restriction in diabetes are immediate and well documented. Concerns about the efficacy and safety are long term and conjectural rather than data driven. Dietary carbohydrate restriction reliably reduces high blood glucose, does not require weight loss (although is still best for weight loss), and leads to the reduction or elimination of medication. It has never shown side effects comparable with those seen in many drugs. Here we present 12 points of evidence supporting the use of low-carbohydrate diets as the first approach to treating type 2 diabetes and as the most effective adjunct to pharmacology in type 1. They represent the best-documented, least controversial results. The insistence on long-term randomized controlled trials as the only kind of data that will be accepted is without precedent in science. The seriousness of diabetes requires that we evaluate all of the evidence that is available. The 12 points are sufficiently compelling that we feel that the burden of proof rests with those who are opposed.
http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0 ... 3/abstract
Abstract
The inability of current recommendations to control the epidemic of diabetes, the specific failure of the prevailing low-fat diets to improve obesity, cardiovascular risk, or general health and the persistent reports of some serious side effects of commonly prescribed diabetic medications, in combination with the continued success of low-carbohydrate diets in the treatment of diabetes and metabolic syndrome without significant side effects, point to the need for a reappraisal of dietary guidelines. The benefits of carbohydrate restriction in diabetes are immediate and well documented. Concerns about the efficacy and safety are long term and conjectural rather than data driven. Dietary carbohydrate restriction reliably reduces high blood glucose, does not require weight loss (although is still best for weight loss), and leads to the reduction or elimination of medication. It has never shown side effects comparable with those seen in many drugs. Here we present 12 points of evidence supporting the use of low-carbohydrate diets as the first approach to treating type 2 diabetes and as the most effective adjunct to pharmacology in type 1. They represent the best-documented, least controversial results. The insistence on long-term randomized controlled trials as the only kind of data that will be accepted is without precedent in science. The seriousness of diabetes requires that we evaluate all of the evidence that is available. The 12 points are sufficiently compelling that we feel that the burden of proof rests with those who are opposed.
Re: Reversing Diabetes
Thanks for this! It corroborates what many here have known for awhile. That lower carb diets (excluding fiber and most vegetables) are advantageous for those with diabetes and prediabetes. The thing to keep in mind is that there are probably 100 million people in this country alone who suffer from some form of metabolic syndrome (prediabetes) and don't even know it.Cortopassi wrote:This just came up on a board I read, it is from last year:
http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0 ... 3/abstract
Abstract
The inability of current recommendations to control the epidemic of diabetes, the specific failure of the prevailing low-fat diets to improve obesity, cardiovascular risk, or general health and the persistent reports of some serious side effects of commonly prescribed diabetic medications, in combination with the continued success of low-carbohydrate diets in the treatment of diabetes and metabolic syndrome without significant side effects, point to the need for a reappraisal of dietary guidelines. The benefits of carbohydrate restriction in diabetes are immediate and well documented. Concerns about the efficacy and safety are long term and conjectural rather than data driven. Dietary carbohydrate restriction reliably reduces high blood glucose, does not require weight loss (although is still best for weight loss), and leads to the reduction or elimination of medication. It has never shown side effects comparable with those seen in many drugs. Here we present 12 points of evidence supporting the use of low-carbohydrate diets as the first approach to treating type 2 diabetes and as the most effective adjunct to pharmacology in type 1. They represent the best-documented, least controversial results. The insistence on long-term randomized controlled trials as the only kind of data that will be accepted is without precedent in science. The seriousness of diabetes requires that we evaluate all of the evidence that is available. The 12 points are sufficiently compelling that we feel that the burden of proof rests with those who are opposed.
- MachineGhost
- Executive Member
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am
Re: Reversing Diabetes
As always, the devil is in the details. What is their definition of "low carbohydrate" and is it uniform across the meta-analysis? This is asking a lot of researchers, typically.
Still, I think this is more like putting the cart before the horse. The amount of calories ingested has COMPOUNDED UPWARDS each and every year. Before we even begin to worry about all this tweaking self-hacks, you've first got to stop stuffing your piehole with excess calories. That requires awareness. I am just not very sympathetic to unaware fat fucks. This isn't Mexico where naive mothers think Pepsi is good for their kids. Deal with your problem or your problem will deal with you via evolutionary Darwinism.
(Yes, I'm frustrated...)
Still, I think this is more like putting the cart before the horse. The amount of calories ingested has COMPOUNDED UPWARDS each and every year. Before we even begin to worry about all this tweaking self-hacks, you've first got to stop stuffing your piehole with excess calories. That requires awareness. I am just not very sympathetic to unaware fat fucks. This isn't Mexico where naive mothers think Pepsi is good for their kids. Deal with your problem or your problem will deal with you via evolutionary Darwinism.
(Yes, I'm frustrated...)
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
- MachineGhost
- Executive Member
- Posts: 10054
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am
Re: Reversing Diabetes
Starting to look into this TDEE dealio as I'm liable to experiment with loading up on AMPK-inducers while preserving 16-hour IF but upping my calorie intake to what is "proper" during the feeding window. However:
Source: http://www.scientificpsychic.com/health/cron1.htmlData from other long-term CR practitioners reflect similar discrepancies between actual caloric requirements and those estimated by energy equations. Experiments have shown that after weight loss the total energy expenditure is lower than predicted by actual changes in body weight and composition even well beyond the period of dynamic weight loss.[13] A calculated caloric deficit does not imply that a person will lose weight. When a person achieves material and energy equilibrium with fewer calories, the calculated caloric deficit reflects an adaptation to lower calorie consumption compared to the subjects from which the equations were derived. The Biosphere-2 experiment[8] showed that the BMR of the biospherians were approximately 6% lower than those of the control subjects after adjustment for age, sex, fat-free mass, and fat mass. Other experiments have shown that the basal metabolic rate can decrease by approximately 12% in three weeks of a 40% calorie restricted diet, but without reaching material equilibrium.[9] A pioneering six-month semistarvation study by Keys[10] showed that severe energy restriction decreased BMR in absolute terms by 39% and also relative to the weight of metabolically active tissue by 16%. Another study published in 2007 showed that after 3 months of a 25% CR diet, the BMR of calorie-restricted individuals was 91 kcalories per day less than the BMR of the control subjects.[12] The authors concluded that BMR adapted or decreased beyond values expected from changes in weight and body composition as a result of energy deficit.
Experiments of 20 days of overeating have also shown that overfeeding causes a variable increase (1-18%) in basal metabolic rate but no change in metabolic rate during light exercise.[11] This suggests that the BMR adapts to the level of food availability over a period of several days or weeks, but it is not easily affected by demands for energy of short duration.
Rodent Experiments
One feature of mice experiments is that the mice are started on calorically restricted diets after 9 weeks, shortly after weaning. The mice on 40% calorie restricted (CR) diets grow to be adults which are approximately 51% of the size of mice fed ad libitum.[5] Considering that the CR mice receive 60% of the food and that they have an adult weight of 51% of the weight of AL mice, CR mice eat 18% more than AL mice on a body weight basis.
Masoro[6] also reported that rats started on a 40% CR diet at 6 weeks of age had lower weights. Masoro's data for rats from 10 to 20 months old can be used to calculate that the 40% CR rats had only 53% of the weight of the AL rats. The restricted rats got 57.9% of the food, but received 9% more calories per gram of body weight than the AL rats. Masoro only remarks about the number of calories that the CR rats consume over their lifetime, but his data indicates that the CR rats routinely ate more calories per gram of body weight from the age of 3 months, and also had a substantially longer lifespan.
What does this mean for humans?
The paradox of increased food consumption per unit of body weight for calorically restricted rodents has been interpreted to mean that it is only the reduction in total calories that really matters for longevity. Humans starting calorie restriction after maturity cannot achieve higher consumption-to-weight ratios than the controls. In the Case Study, above, the actual calories divided by the subject's weight gives 1000/120 = 8.3 Calories/pound, whereas the corresponding control requires 1766/140.2 = 12.6 Calories/pound.
Animal experiments on calorie restriction after maturity indicate that adult-onset CR also increases longevity.[7] This has provided encouragement to the growing number of human CRON practitioners. Human CR diets must be phased in gradually over several years, and moderation is recommended since the optimum percentage of calorie restriction for human adults is still not known.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Legumes and fruits and diabetes
Certainly added sugars are bad, but things do not appear to be quite so simple for all non-vegetable carbs. For example eating beans improves the blood sugar response of whatever you eat at the next meal. Adding berries which contain sugars (even though small amounts) to a meal improves the blood sugar response over the same meal without the berries.
recent Harvard School of Public Health investigation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23990623
Greater consumption of specific whole fruits, particularly blueberries, grapes, and apples, is significantly associated with a lower risk of type 2 diabetes, whereas greater consumption of fruit juice is associated with a higher risk.
More discussion here:
http://nutritionfacts.org/2016/06/09/ju ... ust-fiber/
recent Harvard School of Public Health investigation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23990623
Greater consumption of specific whole fruits, particularly blueberries, grapes, and apples, is significantly associated with a lower risk of type 2 diabetes, whereas greater consumption of fruit juice is associated with a higher risk.
More discussion here:
http://nutritionfacts.org/2016/06/09/ju ... ust-fiber/
Re: Reversing Diabetes
That makes sense to me, as fruit juices usually remove the fiber found in whole fruits.