Reversing Diabetes

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jafs
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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by jafs » Mon May 09, 2016 9:32 am

I meant talk to him about sarcopenia in general.

Doctors do have quite a bit of useful information, if you have a good doctor.

Obviously I can just do more weights on my own.
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Cortopassi
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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:12 am

This just came up on a board I read, it is from last year:

http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0 ... 3/abstract

Abstract

The inability of current recommendations to control the epidemic of diabetes, the specific failure of the prevailing low-fat diets to improve obesity, cardiovascular risk, or general health and the persistent reports of some serious side effects of commonly prescribed diabetic medications, in combination with the continued success of low-carbohydrate diets in the treatment of diabetes and metabolic syndrome without significant side effects, point to the need for a reappraisal of dietary guidelines. The benefits of carbohydrate restriction in diabetes are immediate and well documented. Concerns about the efficacy and safety are long term and conjectural rather than data driven. Dietary carbohydrate restriction reliably reduces high blood glucose, does not require weight loss (although is still best for weight loss), and leads to the reduction or elimination of medication. It has never shown side effects comparable with those seen in many drugs. Here we present 12 points of evidence supporting the use of low-carbohydrate diets as the first approach to treating type 2 diabetes and as the most effective adjunct to pharmacology in type 1. They represent the best-documented, least controversial results. The insistence on long-term randomized controlled trials as the only kind of data that will be accepted is without precedent in science. The seriousness of diabetes requires that we evaluate all of the evidence that is available. The 12 points are sufficiently compelling that we feel that the burden of proof rests with those who are opposed.
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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by Reub » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:03 pm

Cortopassi wrote:This just came up on a board I read, it is from last year:

http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0 ... 3/abstract

Abstract

The inability of current recommendations to control the epidemic of diabetes, the specific failure of the prevailing low-fat diets to improve obesity, cardiovascular risk, or general health and the persistent reports of some serious side effects of commonly prescribed diabetic medications, in combination with the continued success of low-carbohydrate diets in the treatment of diabetes and metabolic syndrome without significant side effects, point to the need for a reappraisal of dietary guidelines. The benefits of carbohydrate restriction in diabetes are immediate and well documented. Concerns about the efficacy and safety are long term and conjectural rather than data driven. Dietary carbohydrate restriction reliably reduces high blood glucose, does not require weight loss (although is still best for weight loss), and leads to the reduction or elimination of medication. It has never shown side effects comparable with those seen in many drugs. Here we present 12 points of evidence supporting the use of low-carbohydrate diets as the first approach to treating type 2 diabetes and as the most effective adjunct to pharmacology in type 1. They represent the best-documented, least controversial results. The insistence on long-term randomized controlled trials as the only kind of data that will be accepted is without precedent in science. The seriousness of diabetes requires that we evaluate all of the evidence that is available. The 12 points are sufficiently compelling that we feel that the burden of proof rests with those who are opposed.
Thanks for this! It corroborates what many here have known for awhile. That lower carb diets (excluding fiber and most vegetables) are advantageous for those with diabetes and prediabetes. The thing to keep in mind is that there are probably 100 million people in this country alone who suffer from some form of metabolic syndrome (prediabetes) and don't even know it.
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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by MachineGhost » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:15 pm

As always, the devil is in the details. What is their definition of "low carbohydrate" and is it uniform across the meta-analysis? This is asking a lot of researchers, typically.

Still, I think this is more like putting the cart before the horse. The amount of calories ingested has COMPOUNDED UPWARDS each and every year. Before we even begin to worry about all this tweaking self-hacks, you've first got to stop stuffing your piehole with excess calories. That requires awareness. I am just not very sympathetic to unaware fat fucks. This isn't Mexico where naive mothers think Pepsi is good for their kids. Deal with your problem or your problem will deal with you via evolutionary Darwinism.

(Yes, I'm frustrated...)
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by MachineGhost » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:03 pm

Starting to look into this TDEE dealio as I'm liable to experiment with loading up on AMPK-inducers while preserving 16-hour IF but upping my calorie intake to what is "proper" during the feeding window. However:
Data from other long-term CR practitioners reflect similar discrepancies between actual caloric requirements and those estimated by energy equations. Experiments have shown that after weight loss the total energy expenditure is lower than predicted by actual changes in body weight and composition even well beyond the period of dynamic weight loss.[13] A calculated caloric deficit does not imply that a person will lose weight. When a person achieves material and energy equilibrium with fewer calories, the calculated caloric deficit reflects an adaptation to lower calorie consumption compared to the subjects from which the equations were derived. The Biosphere-2 experiment[8] showed that the BMR of the biospherians were approximately 6% lower than those of the control subjects after adjustment for age, sex, fat-free mass, and fat mass. Other experiments have shown that the basal metabolic rate can decrease by approximately 12% in three weeks of a 40% calorie restricted diet, but without reaching material equilibrium.[9] A pioneering six-month semistarvation study by Keys[10] showed that severe energy restriction decreased BMR in absolute terms by 39% and also relative to the weight of metabolically active tissue by 16%. Another study published in 2007 showed that after 3 months of a 25% CR diet, the BMR of calorie-restricted individuals was 91 kcalories per day less than the BMR of the control subjects.[12] The authors concluded that BMR adapted or decreased beyond values expected from changes in weight and body composition as a result of energy deficit.

Experiments of 20 days of overeating have also shown that overfeeding causes a variable increase (1-18%) in basal metabolic rate but no change in metabolic rate during light exercise.[11] This suggests that the BMR adapts to the level of food availability over a period of several days or weeks, but it is not easily affected by demands for energy of short duration.

Rodent Experiments
One feature of mice experiments is that the mice are started on calorically restricted diets after 9 weeks, shortly after weaning. The mice on 40% calorie restricted (CR) diets grow to be adults which are approximately 51% of the size of mice fed ad libitum.[5] Considering that the CR mice receive 60% of the food and that they have an adult weight of 51% of the weight of AL mice, CR mice eat 18% more than AL mice on a body weight basis.

Masoro[6] also reported that rats started on a 40% CR diet at 6 weeks of age had lower weights. Masoro's data for rats from 10 to 20 months old can be used to calculate that the 40% CR rats had only 53% of the weight of the AL rats. The restricted rats got 57.9% of the food, but received 9% more calories per gram of body weight than the AL rats. Masoro only remarks about the number of calories that the CR rats consume over their lifetime, but his data indicates that the CR rats routinely ate more calories per gram of body weight from the age of 3 months, and also had a substantially longer lifespan.

What does this mean for humans?
The paradox of increased food consumption per unit of body weight for calorically restricted rodents has been interpreted to mean that it is only the reduction in total calories that really matters for longevity. Humans starting calorie restriction after maturity cannot achieve higher consumption-to-weight ratios than the controls. In the Case Study, above, the actual calories divided by the subject's weight gives 1000/120 = 8.3 Calories/pound, whereas the corresponding control requires 1766/140.2 = 12.6 Calories/pound.

Animal experiments on calorie restriction after maturity indicate that adult-onset CR also increases longevity.[7] This has provided encouragement to the growing number of human CRON practitioners. Human CR diets must be phased in gradually over several years, and moderation is recommended since the optimum percentage of calorie restriction for human adults is still not known.
Source: http://www.scientificpsychic.com/health/cron1.html
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Legumes and fruits and diabetes

Post by Benko » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:13 am

Certainly added sugars are bad, but things do not appear to be quite so simple for all non-vegetable carbs. For example eating beans improves the blood sugar response of whatever you eat at the next meal. Adding berries which contain sugars (even though small amounts) to a meal improves the blood sugar response over the same meal without the berries.

recent Harvard School of Public Health investigation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23990623
Greater consumption of specific whole fruits, particularly blueberries, grapes, and apples, is significantly associated with a lower risk of type 2 diabetes, whereas greater consumption of fruit juice is associated with a higher risk.

More discussion here:
http://nutritionfacts.org/2016/06/09/ju ... ust-fiber/
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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by jafs » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:27 am

That makes sense to me, as fruit juices usually remove the fiber found in whole fruits.
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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by Reub » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:42 am

An interesting twist:

"A Leucine, Metformin and Sildenafil Combination Regresses Non-Alcoholic
Steatohepatitis (NASH) in Mice
Abstract Number: 260-LB
Date and Time: Sunday, June 12, 2016, 12:00pm - 2:00pm
Location: Poster Hall, 21-B, Integrated Physiology – Liver
This poster will share pre-clinical research testing NuSirt’s patented combination of
leucine, low dose metformin and sub therapeutic levels of sildenafil in mice induced
with NASH.
Results from the study demonstrated significant potential for the triple combination to
reverse NASH in mice. In fact, data showed that the treatment reduced liver fat by 43
percent, liver inflammation by 55 percent and fibrosis by 50 percent.
About Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease (NAFLD) and Non-Alcoholic Steatohepatitis
(NASH)
Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is a result of fat building up in the liver,
preventing the organ’s ability to remove toxins from the blood. It affects up to one-third of
the general population. Although there are no known causes for NAFLD, obesity, high
cholesterol, diabetes, and high blood pressure are all considered risk factors.
Non-alcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH) occurs in 10 to 30 percent of those with NAFLD. It
happens when the liver of a person with NAFLD becomes inflamed, causing severe liver cell
damage. Over time, this can result in permanent scarring and hardening of the liver. The
consequences of NASH include cardiovascular disease, liver cancer, and liver failure."

So it seems that low dose metformin, leucine (as found in whey protein and BCAAs), and sub therapeutic amounts of, yes, VIAGRA, have been found to markedly reduce fatty liver disease which causes diabetes and prediabetes in millions of cases! I'm already using the leucine with metformin but never had a need for Viagra....until now.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... ociation’s
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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:08 pm

Reub wrote:So it seems that low dose metformin, leucine (as found in whey protein and BCAAs), and sub therapeutic amounts of, yes, VIAGRA, have been found to markedly reduce fatty liver disease which causes diabetes and prediabetes in millions of cases! I'm already using the leucine with metformin but never had a need for Viagra....until now.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... ociation’s
If that's so then just use L-Citrulline which will be converted into Arginine and then into NO. Viagra is a toxic joke; a repurposed heart attack drug. Stupid is as stupid does.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by Reub » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:44 pm

Well, I'm off of the metformin again. That stuff really saps my strength and makes me lethargic. I really don't know how doctors can prescribe it so freely.
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Benko
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Re: Fatty liver

Post by Benko » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:16 pm

Reub,

Assuming you have fatty liver* it is likely a symptom of something of metabolically off in your body i.e. there is something metabolically off that is causing both the blood sugar issue (if it is still there) AND the fatty liver (again if you have it) . I see fatty liver on CT scans very frequently, but usually the people who have it are obese. Metabolic abnormalities are not my area of expertise. As I recall you were doing a number of very intelligent things, but if this is still persisting and is not gone away you might want to try something else. Personally I'd recommend chinese herbs under the diagnosis of a really good chinese herbalist.


*MRI (or liver biopsy) is definitive in the diagnosis of fatty liver. There are "false positives" of fatty liver on CT or US. If you were diagnosed on CT or US you might want to get a second opinion (from another radiologist). The criteria for fatty liver on CT used at the major academic liver center near me is:

Liver 30HU less than spleen on CT without IV contrast.
Liver 10 less than spleen on CT with IV contrast.
Ultrasound diagnosis of fatty liver is subjective.

Re: METFORMIN: I'm NOT recommending for or against it, but keep in mind not every patient reacts to any drug the same.
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Re: Reversing Diabetes

Post by pugchief » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:33 pm

MachineGhost wrote: Viagra is a toxic joke; a repurposed heart attack drug. Stupid is as stupid does.
Let's see if you still feel that way when you are in your 60's or 70's. I can't imagine just giving up on sex if there are other options.
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