The political re-alignment of our time

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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:36 pm

#5 in the first list was also right on the money (of course heartless bastards don't see it and don't mind, but that doesn't make it any less true).
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:12 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:35 pm
Okay, I guess I'm a heartless bastard, so I'll bite.

Mass deportation of whom? You mean people who are here illegally?
Yes.
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:35 pm
And that is somehow a bad thing?
Yes.

Nearly all of the illegal immigrants who are being deported have children or family members who are citizens, or were brought to the USA as children themselves who are being punished for the misdeeds of their parents. Some of them arrived so young that they are 100% American in culture and know nothing of the land they are being sent to. Here's an example: a 41 year-old Iraqi man brought to the USA as a baby, and deported to Iraq last year. He died.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/j ... aoud-dead/

Make no mistake, the government murdered this man. They sent him alone into a foreign warzone where he didn't speak the language, didn't understand the culture, had no personal connections, and would not easily be able to receive needed medicine for a chronic condition. He predictably died soon thereafter. I wonder how many conservatives or libertarians leapt up in righteous outrage at this act of government murder? Probably not a lot. He was a low-quality person, I would have said to myself 5 years ago. A dangerous mentally ill career criminal with diabetes who was in the country illegally. Good riddance; he deserved it. With his death, the world's IQ and gene pool just improved by a little bit.

And thinking those thoughts would have made me a Heartless Bastard. Feeling this way about people is not a good thing. It does not make you tough and hard-nosed and capable of making the difficult choices that life demands. It makes you mean and unattractive and repellent to the everything that's good on this earth. When I was a Heartless Bastard, that's what happened to me. Slowly my world started to get darker and darker as I found that sources of light were no longer attracted to me, and that in fact my toxicity was pushing them away.

It's a bad state of mind to live in. Luckily, it's curable.
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:35 pm
And I can't speak for NM, but it isn't a police state where I live or anywhere else I know of in the US. The old Soviet Union was a police state. Please show me the similarities to any US city.
If the whole "children in cages" thing didn't rattle you, then there's nothing I can write that will change your mind. All I can say is that I now believe there are ways to have a humane yet fairly choosy immigration policy/system. We don't have that and clearly that's by design, coming from the top. The system has been dysfunctional for decades, yet it's only in the Trump era that the order seems to have come down to make it as intentionally cruel as possible.
Last edited by Pointedstick on Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:28 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:12 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:35 pm
Okay, I guess I'm a heartless bastard, so I'll bite.

Mass deportation of whom? You mean people who are here illegally?
Yes.
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:35 pm
And that is somehow a bad thing?
Yes.

Nearly all of the illegal immigrants who are being deported have children or family members who are citizens, or were brought to the USA as children themselves who are being punished for the misdeeds of their parents. Some of them arrived so young that they are 100% American in culture and know nothing of the land they are being sent to. Here's an example: a 41 year-old Iraqi man brought to the USA as a baby, and deported to Iraq last year: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/j ... aoud-dead/

Make no mistake, the government murdered this man. They sent him alone into a foreign warzone where he didn't speak the language, didn't understand the culture, had no personal connections, and would not easily be able to receive needed medicine for a chronic condition. He predictably died soon thereafter. I wonder how many conservatives or libertarians leapt up in righteous outrage at this act of government murder? Probably not a lot. He was a low-quality person, I would have said to myself 5 years ago. A dangerous mentally ill career criminal with diabetes who was in the country illegally. Good riddance; he deserved it. With his death, the world's IQ and gene pool just improved by a little bit.

And thinking those thoughts would have made me a Heartless Bastard. Feeling this way about people is not a good thing. It does not make you tough and hard-nosed and capable of making the difficult choices that life demands. It makes you mean and unattractive and repellent to the everything that's good on this earth. When I was a Heartless Bastard, that's what happened to me. Slowly my world started to get darker and darker as I found that sources of light were no longer attracted to me, and that in fact my toxicity was pushing them away.

It's a bad state of mind to live in. Luckily, it's curable.

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:35 pm
And I can't speak for NM, but it isn't a police state where I live or anywhere else I know of in the US. The old Soviet Union was a police state. Please show me the similarities to any US city.
If the whole "children in cages" thing didn't rattle you, then there's nothing I can write that will change your mind. All I can say is that I now believe there are ways to have a humane yet fairly choosy immigration policy/system. We don't have that and clearly that's by design, coming from the top. The system has been dysfunctional for decades, yet it's only in the Trump era that the order seems to have come down to make it as intentionally cruel as possible.
Your comments about light and dark reminded me of Luke, Chapter 11. Particularly verses 33 - 36:

The Light in You
33 “No one after lighting a lamp puts it in a cellar or under a basket, but on a stand, so that those who enter may see the light. 34 Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eye is healthy, your whole body is full of light, but when it is bad, your body is full of darkness. 35 Therefore be careful lest the light in you be darkness. 36 If then your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, it will be wholly bright, as when a lamp with its rays gives you light.”
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:32 pm

Yes, exactly. The light is so much better than the dark. We just need to give ourselves permission to go there.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by flyingpylon » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:50 pm

If the past 3-4 years have taught me anything (not to mention this thread), it’s that everyone we meet is living in “opposite world” on at least one topic. Once you realize that, it’s almost entertaining.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by stuper1 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:10 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:12 pm

Make no mistake, the government murdered this man.
I presume his parents brought him here illegally when he was a baby. Make no mistake, his parents murdered him.

Laws have two purposes: punishment and deterrence.

If we don't send people home who came here illegally or were brought here illegally, then there is no deterrence effect. We are just rewarding people for breaking the laws. We could pass an amnesty law. Guess what? In another 20 years we would have to pass another one, because people would see that they get rewarded for breaking the laws.

I guess I'm a heartless bastard too.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by vnatale » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:43 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:50 pm
If the past 3-4 years have taught me anything (not to mention this thread), it’s that everyone we meet is living in “opposite world” on at least one topic. Once you realize that, it’s almost entertaining.
You've inspired me to put here a sentence I'd read earlier tonight that I told myself I'd like to memorize. Putting it here will be the first step in getting me to remember it.

It comes from another of James Rickards's excellent (and highly recommended) books - The Death of Money

"It is not surprising that the FOMC members are deeply divided between the contrasting views espoused by Stein and Yellen. Stein is no doubt correct that systemic risk is building up unseen in the banking system through off-balance-sheet transactions and that new bubbles are emerging. Yellen is undoubtedly right that the economy is fundamentally weak and needs all the policy support it can get to avoid outright recession and deflation. The fact that both sides in the debate are correct means both sides are also incorrect to the extent that they fail to incorporate their opponents’ valid points in their own views."

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:50 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:10 pm
Laws have two purposes: punishment and deterrence.

If we don't send people home who came here illegally or were brought here illegally, then there is no deterrence effect. We are just rewarding people for breaking the laws. We could pass an amnesty law. Guess what? In another 20 years we would have to pass another one, because people would see that they get rewarded for breaking the laws.

I guess I'm a heartless bastard too.
This attitude has a logical conclusion: the more publicly cruel the government behaves towards lawbreakers, the greater the deterrent effect. So let's separate children from their illegally-immigrating parents at the border and keep them in such inhumane conditions that five of those children have since died. That's sure to send a message! All in the name of making the country safe for libertarianism for those with citizenship, right?
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Xan » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:10 pm

PS, I have to say I'm a bit surprised to see you pop up and start calling people names. Surely we can have this discussion without people feeling like you're calling them "heartless bastards"?

Besides, if anyone has earned the moniker around here recently.... (emphasis added)
Pointedstick wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:28 am
but this is just a trick to weaken your resolve. They know that power and force may be uncomfortable tools for you and they're trying to take advantage of your vulnerability to undermine your self-image. You must harden your heart and crush them remorselessly if you want to preserve your society. There is no other way.
But the light is so much better than the dark, or something. :-)
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:27 pm

I don't see the light as incompatible with conflict anymore. Turning towards the light sometimes requires fighting the darkness. Luke Skywalker doesn't become a bad guy because he fights Darth Vader. He does have to struggle a bit with the concept of fighting in the name of good, which is what the cave scene in The Empire Strikes Back is about. But he makes the right decision and becomes a warrior for good.

And I guess I do think that people who are okay with ripping children away from their parents seeking asylum at the border are heartless bastards. There it is.

One of the reasons why I left this place was I didn't want to hang out with those kinds of people online anymore. I didn't like the effect that the exposure had been having on me for all those years. Despite the appeal of intellectual sparring, thought experimentation, and deep discussions that I loved so much, I resisted coming back because I was afraid I would be too weak to resist the lure of Heartless Bastardism that I had fed on for so long. But now I feel like it's actually a different problem: that I'm so incredibly angry at those people for their willingness to constantly excuse the greatest evils I've witnessed in my life that I've lost all ability to empathize and communicate with them.

I guess I'll leave again.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by stuper1 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:24 pm

You're living in a dream world. Governments need to enforce the laws that are on the books. If that doesn't happen, then we just slowly turn into the type of nation that these immigrants are trying to get away from.

Government bureaucracy is a terrible thing to fall into. Ask me how I know. It's not because it's evil, just heartless. That's just the way it is. There's no getting around it.

If people don't want their children "ripped from their arms by Hitler himself", then very simple, don't try to enter this country illegally.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that the same sorts of things happened under lots of presidents, not just Trump. It's just that the media with its fixation on demonizing Trump has focused a lot more attention on these things.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by moda0306 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:52 am

stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:24 pm
You're living in a dream world. Governments need to enforce the laws that are on the books. If that doesn't happen, then we just slowly turn into the type of nation that these immigrants are trying to get away from.

Government bureaucracy is a terrible thing to fall into. Ask me how I know. It's not because it's evil, just heartless. That's just the way it is. There's no getting around it.

If people don't want their children "ripped from their arms by Hitler himself", then very simple, don't try to enter this country illegally.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that the same sorts of things happened under lots of presidents, not just Trump. It's just that the media with its fixation on demonizing Trump has focused a lot more attention on these things.
If hawkish border policy will simply make "illegals" miserable, while not having a meaningfully beneficial effect on native-born Americans, then it's perhaps you, not PS, that lives in a "Dream World." I mean the point isn't just to make people miserable, right? It's to actually have some sort of net-benefit on humanity?

And yes government bureaucracy is antiseptic and can be utterly brutal... so probably best to limit the most violent and restrictive arm of its brutality and have it stick to issuing Social Security checks and delivering mail clumsily rather than holding people in cages.

And let's not pretend this has anything to do with some principle of "The Rule of Law." I have yet to meet anyone who will, when asked, admit to wanting every law in the U.S. enforced as rigidly as possible, as I believe they realize, as I do, the system would literally collapse under its own weight... so it's a matter of people's individual priority which laws they want enforced through a militarized police state and which ones they want borderline-ignored for most people. Therefore, there are implied value-judgments there that usurp/override so-called "rule of law" principles.

To any folks who fancy themselves some degree of civil libertarian (even if they only value these principles for American citizens), I'd challenge you to look into the many cases of American citizens getting swept up in the "brutal bureaucracy" of immigration enforcement. There's no clean, natural way to tell that someone is an American citizen. American citizens have been detained for weeks while "the bureaucracy" bumbles about. It puts individual rights on their heels, and reinforces/fortifies violent state powers.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Xan » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:18 am

moda0306 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:52 am
To any folks who fancy themselves some degree of civil libertarian (even if they only value these principles for American citizens), I'd challenge you to look into the many cases of American citizens getting swept up in the "brutal bureaucracy" of immigration enforcement. There's no clean, natural way to tell that someone is an American citizen. American citizens have been detained for weeks while "the bureaucracy" bumbles about. It puts individual rights on their heels, and reinforces/fortifies violent state powers.
The border is the place to do that in a clean, natural way. If the border were not porous, then the issues you describe wouldn't happen, right?

Here's what I think is a great fact-based look at the family separation issue. I hadn't heard of the Bipartisan Policy Center before, but it looks like they did a great job here of describing the situation:
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/why-a ... explainer/

The introductory paragraph (emphasis mine):
A new Department of Justice and Department of Homeland Security “zero-tolerance policy” against illegal entry into the United States means that everyone caught trying to enter the country between lawful ports of entry would be referred for criminal prosecution.
The family separations stemmed (by law) from the decision to treat this attempted entry as criminal rather than civil, which is apparently an option the President has under the law. An issue on which he campaigned and won. (And it's my understanding that Mexico, just as an example, treats illegal entry as a felony and not just merely criminal!)

So these aren't refugees seeking asylum or they'd go to a lawful port of entry. They're trying to sneak across the border.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by shekels » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:01 am

Give up on the Hate, it will eat you from inside out.


I think I have posted this before but if not here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by shekels » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:13 am

shekels wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:01 am
Give up on the Hate, it will eat you from inside out.


I think I have posted this before but if not here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Quality of Life anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muw22wTePqQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK6ixvKxw7E
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by shekels » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:25 am

shekels wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:13 am
shekels wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:01 am
Give up on the Hate, it will eat you from inside out.


I think I have posted this before but if not here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Quality of Life anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muw22wTePqQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK6ixvKxw7E
Exponential population.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9dhqo0LA8

Y'all have a great day.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:21 pm

What I think is funny is that somebody like Trump gets blamed for enforcing our immigration laws, as if it's his problem to deal with the poor life that people in other countries have. Trump's job is to do what's best for Americans.

The people who should be blamed for the poor lives of people in other countries are the leaders of those countries who through mismanagement and a lot of corruption have thrown their own countries under the bus for decades and centuries. It's not Trump's fault if the leaders of Mexico and name a bunch of other countries can't get their acts together and develop their own countries so that their own citizens can get good jobs there and don't want to leave.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Pointedstick » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:33 pm

I'd like to apologize. I realized that I'm not mad at you guys, I'm really still mad at myself, and I was taking it out on you. It was inappropriate and I'm sorry. Clearly I have more work to do on that front.

Regardless, I do kind of fear for the future when we can have such divergent basic views of what's right and wrong, and what's acceptable to sacrifice in the interests of order or convenience or loyalty. I'll admit that it was a genuine shock to me to learn just how many people shrugged their shoulders or rejoiced as ICE agents ripped families apart and separated children from parents lawfully seeking asylum at the border--even after some of those children died and the conditions of the facilities they're kept in were revealed to be inhumane in the extreme. I mean sure, some of these people broke the law, but... jesus christ man. The utter inhumanity it all is just appalling to me. Surely there must be a better way, so we don't lose our own souls and moral legitimacy in the process.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:47 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:33 pm
I'd like to apologize. I realized that I'm not mad at you guys, I'm really still mad at myself, and I was taking it out on you. It was inappropriate and I'm sorry. Clearly I have more work to do on that front.

Regardless, I do kind of fear for the future when we can have such divergent basic views of what's right and wrong, and what's acceptable to sacrifice in the interests of order or convenience or loyalty. I'll admit that it was a genuine shock to me to learn just how many people shrugged their shoulders or rejoiced as ICE agents ripped families apart and separated children from parents lawfully seeking asylum at the border--even after some of those children died and the conditions of the facilities they're kept in were revealed to be inhumane in the extreme. I mean sure, some of these people broke the law, but... jesus christ man. The utter inhumanity it all is just appalling to me. Surely there must be a better way, so we don't lose our own souls and moral legitimacy in the process.
That's pretty much how I felt when I posted my last reply in the "everything costs too much .... " thread - literally MILLIONS murdered, not many blink an eye. Trump passes gas in public - the unforgivable sin and millions want him gone, many even before he passed gas. Impeachment theatrics - the media goes wild. And the song goes on ......... and on ............................... and on .................................
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:03 pm

I'm not rejoicing to see people suffering. I'd love it if everybody could live a happy, prosperous life. However, America has enough people right now. We have enough on our plate just trying to get jobs for the people we already have. Other countries need to step up and take care of their own. If we take all of their best and brightest and hardworkingest, then how will they ever raise themselves up?
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by WiseOne » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:14 am

It is the corporations benefiting from low wages in places like Shenzhen and Vietnam, but US policies are there to help enable these moves because those same corporations get to buy a lot of laws and regulations via their lobbyists and their campaign contributions - to both major parties. It's a stinking corrupt system. Its only saving grace is the level of systemic incompetence and partisan bickering that limits the damage they can do.

PointedStick, I sympathize with many of the things you said, but you lost me when you started picking political sides. If anything, it's the Democrats who have pushed open-border policies, and the reason is simple: it benefits them and it's their equivalent of Republican gerrymandering. The Democrats could care less about the impact of uncontrolled, unskilled immigration on the native lower class. They are doing this because it's is an easy way to ensure greater numbers of future Democratic voters. I also consider the Democrats to be master media manipulators, especially since the media are practically in their pocket. Republicans do the same yes, but not nearly to the same extent. I'm also not sure your claim is true that it's mainly Republicans who are guilty of ethics violations. It's just that Democrats are less likely to get nailed for it because of said media manipulation - or it's simply not reported widely even if it does happen. I don't get how you're giving all this a free pass.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by moda0306 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:40 am

Maddy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:17 am
You know, when you announce that your entire family is on Medicaid while simultaneously posting about the joys of early retirement and the creative ways in which your considerable assets and talents are being invested, you sort of disqualify yourself from the soapbox when it comes to the question of how illegal border-crossing should be managed.
Ummm what? There is nothing illegal about using the tools for government gives us to be financial secure, safe, mobile, etc. Perhaps there is something immoral about using those tools, but I'm quite sure a glass house/stones analogy would probably be pertinent here.

PS is a pillar of what this place became at its best, and he could be leading a communist revolution with a trainload of illegal immigrants and still have more clout on this forum than you and your meandering, factless tirades against "The Left."
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:41 am

moda0306 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:40 am
Maddy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:17 am
You know, when you announce that your entire family is on Medicaid while simultaneously posting about the joys of early retirement and the creative ways in which your considerable assets and talents are being invested, you sort of disqualify yourself from the soapbox when it comes to the question of how illegal border-crossing should be managed.
Ummm what? There is nothing illegal about using the tools for government gives us to be financial secure, safe, mobile, etc. Perhaps there is something immoral about using those tools, but I'm quite sure a glass house/stones analogy would probably be pertinent here.

PS is a pillar of what this place became at its best, and he could be leading a communist revolution with a trainload of illegal immigrants and still have more clout on this forum than you and your meandering, factless tirades against "The Left."
Moda, that’s rather harsh. I think we all benefit from others points of view, whether we agree with them or not. We all need ears to hear each other or we will become worse than those we oppose. My half cent.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by moda0306 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:59 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:20 pm
I don't have anything to add, but I would like to cast my vote.
Maddy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:53 pm
Shouldn't the anger be directed at the multinational monopolist corporations who, aided and abetted by the U.S. military, a host of NGOs, and approximately 235 whores, have been harvesting these countries for decades? These aren't climate refugees; they are the victims of the proverbial Economic Hitman. It's not terribly hard to understand the political imperative to move these people somewhere else or why the Elites--who have squeezed every dollar they can out of the financial system and who have now set their sights on cornering the world's natural resources (as trustees of the planet, dontcha know)--are so hell bent on perpetuating the narrative of climate change.
Great post, Maddy.
WiseOne wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:14 am
PointedStick, I sympathize with many of the things you said, but you lost me when you started picking political sides. If anything, it's the Democrats who have pushed open-border policies, and the reason is simple: it benefits them and it's their equivalent of Republican gerrymandering. The Democrats could care less about the impact of uncontrolled, unskilled immigration on the native lower class. They are doing this because it's is an easy way to ensure greater numbers of future Democratic voters. I also consider the Democrats to be master media manipulators, especially since the media are practically in their pocket. Republicans do the same yes, but not nearly to the same extent. I'm also not sure your claim is true that it's mainly Republicans who are guilty of ethics violations. It's just that Democrats are less likely to get nailed for it because of said media manipulation - or it's simply not reported widely even if it does happen. I don't get how you're giving all this a free pass.
Also very well stated and I also wonder what PS's Kool-aid got spiked with.
Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:41 am
Moda, that’s rather harsh. I think we all benefit from others points of view, whether we agree with them or not. We all need ears to hear each other or we will become worse than those we oppose.
+1. Jeez Moda, you're clearly a smart guy, but you sound like all the others that maintain if you don't agree with their view 100% you are a moron.
I've never agreed with PS 100%, nor anyone here probably. There's a reason I end up coming to blows with only a handful of folks. I have no problem disagreeing with folks based purely on their opinion. Anarchists... libertarians... conservatives like Xan... Monarchists like Ad... liberal-leaning centrists... hard leftists.

Yes I was harsh. So was Maddy's insulting post to PS. Maddy isn't a shadow of what PS or half of the original posters on this forum are/were, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise while Maddy insults people who've practically got their names etched into the foundation of this place... even if I, yes, have to get insulting myself.

And I'm not really that smart. I think I've developed an ability to sniff out b*llshit and bad-faith arguments, and that's about it.
Kbg
Executive Member
Executive Member
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: The political re-alignment of our time

Post by Kbg » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:57 pm

Ugg, and there you have it. What passes for political discussion in America these days.

We should try something really hard...start with facts. If we can't agree on the facts then sides have to state why "their" facts and sources are credible and the other side can rebut. (CNN/FOX/whatever sucks and is never truthful is not a rebuttal...proof of error pertaining to thing being discussed required.)

Then, have a discussion.

Anyone who goes ad hominem on anyone get's all their posts in the thread deleted by the moderator.

I am beyond sick of start with a world view and then fit/reject facts within that view

ugg, ugg, ugg
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