The Real Hillary Shady

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MediumTex
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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jafs wrote: I'd have to look into Baltimore to understand what's happening there.

But, one example isn't enough to disprove a general relationship.  For example, we know there's a general connection between smoking and lung cancer.  The fact that some people may get lung cancer without smoking, or that some people who smoke won't get lung cancer doesn't negate that relationship.

That's why studies are useful.

I had hoped you had some studies that countered the ones I'd seen.

I couldn't read the wsj article, because I'm not a subscriber.
Many urban districts have a lethal combination of bad administrators, jaded teachers, poor students, and parents who simply don't value or understand education in the way that is needed to adequately support what is happening at the school.

I don't see how money could significantly impact any of those factors. 

One big factor is that good teachers don't want to teach in the ghetto.  Another big factor is that academic achievement doesn't give you much street cred in many poor neighborhoods, whereas in middle class neighborhoods academic achievement is often the ONLY measure of street cred.

The skillset it takes to be a good teacher in a poor urban environment is often totally different than what it takes to be a good teacher in a middle class suburb.  An outstanding teacher in a middle class suburban school might be a terrible teacher in the ghetto because the students would just flatten him/her.

In high school one year I took a summer school class at an all black inner city high school.  The first thing the African-American teacher said on the first day of class as her head bounced around on her shoulders and her eyes got big was: "Now look here.  I want you all to know I'm not going to take any shit.  Got it?  You give me any shit and I'm going to be on the phone with your mamas, aunts and uncles."  It was understood that there weren't many dads that she could call.  You wouldn't hear that on the first day in a middle class suburban school.

As a sidenote, although I was an expert at giving teachers shit in high school, I was a model pupil in that summer school class.  I respected the teacher and worked hard for her.  When she saw my attitude and effort, she loved me right back.
Last edited by MediumTex on Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Studies have shown that increased funding does improve outcomes in poor neighborhoods.

I agree with a lot of your post, though, especially the part about how good teachers wouldn't want to teach in crummy neighborhoods.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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jafs wrote: Studies have shown that increased funding does improve outcomes in poor neighborhoods.

I agree with a lot of your post, though, especially the part about how good teachers wouldn't want to teach in crummy neighborhoods.
I would say that increased funding can improve outcomes.

It all depends on how you spend it and how screwed up the district was to start with.

In some districts, extra spending has a way of finding its way to little more than salary raises for administrators and new athletic equipment.
Simonjester wrote: check out this documentary if you are interested in how school funding works The Cartel (2009)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1433001/
American public schools have been growing progressively worse. According to the U.S. Department of Education national testing, only 35% of American high school seniors are proficient in reading, based on 2006 data. And fewer than one-in-four, 23%, are proficient in math. On the global stage, America ranks last in educational effectiveness among large industrialized countries despite the highest spending per student in the world. It presents a conundrum: How has the richest and most innovative society on earth suddenly lost the ability to teach its children at a level that other modern countries consider "basic"? If the problem is that we're not spending enough on schools, which many people believe, it's instructive to study the U.S. state that spends more than any other per student: New Jersey With spending as high as $483,000 per classroom (confirmed by NJ Education Department records for 2005-06), New Jersey students fare only slightly better than the national average in reading and math, and rank 37th in average SAT scores. And not even half of NJ's high school freshmen, despite the state's enormous "investment," are academically ready for college four years later. The fact is much of the public considers teacher salaries and overall education budgets to be the same thing -- if you're for raising one, you must be for raising the other. But as the film shows, in many cases 80-90% of the spending goes somewhere besides teacher salaries. In fact billions of dollars, as confirmed by independent audits, are wasted. "The Cartel" investigates what is causing this vast underachievement and what can be done to turn things around.
Last edited by MediumTex on Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Pointedstick wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: The what:  All I can say is the people in my church are far better behaved and care about each other than the "average joe or susie" that plagues the TV and movie screens - and for that matter, the shopping malls and grocery stores, especially the parking lots.  How to put a culture of caring about neighbor as much as caring about self is another matter.  Perhaps it is just a matter of entropy we are observing with the current election cycle - we are seeing the results of a thrust for the lowest common denominator (a focus on equality of results, not equality of opportunity). 

... M
Trump is winning among evangelicals nationwide, though. According to your premise, shouldn't they be clamoring for someone with more substance, more seriousness, and less… well, less vice? Dude's been married three times, insults almost everyone, has next to know understanding of the Bible and Christianity, and lives a life that is probably as anti-Christian as any I can imagine. He's the rich man who would be less likely to get into heaven than a camel passing through the eye of the needle. So why is he winning big among evangelicals like you and the members of your church?

This is meant as an honest question; I don't feel like I really understand it myself.
Well, that is a difficult question to answer since I am not an Evangelical as you probably mean the term (the original meaning of evangelical means to spread the Gospel but that definition has been thoroughly corrupted - it has come to mean in popular vernacular as the bat shit crazy Christians who are very, very judgemental - not my cup of tea).  The Lutheran view of civil leaders might surprise you.  We would rather have an honest competent pagan than a so called incompetent Christian as a civil leader.  As Xan has said before, the Lutheran concept of Two Kingdoms has much to teach on this subject.  Whether Trump is a repentant Christian, and whether he is destined for heaven or hell is immaterial to his presidential qualifications and leadership of our country.  And, this is not exactly what you are asking, but why do you think I am a Trump fan; I do not recall saying anything that would indicate I endorse him?  Most of my LCMS friends do not have a high regard for Trump, nor Hillary, nor Sanders, nor Obama - not because of their religion or their political party, it is because of their incompetence, or at least questionable competence.  It will likely come down to selecting the best of a very poor lot when it comes time to vote; lots of time left to gather more facts before having to decide.

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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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My impression is that "evangelical" in American socio-political parlance is a synonym for "born-again Christian." Born-again Christians follow the school of thought that once you believe in Jesus as your lord and savior, that's it, you're good to go, free pass into heaven. So why would they need to keep going to church? They've already gotten their golden tickets.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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MediumTex wrote:
jafs wrote: Studies have shown that increased funding does improve outcomes in poor neighborhoods.

I agree with a lot of your post, though, especially the part about how good teachers wouldn't want to teach in crummy neighborhoods.
I would say that increased funding can improve outcomes.

It all depends on how you spend it and how screwed up the district was to start with.

In some districts, extra spending has a way of finding its way to little more than salary raises for administrators and new athletic equipment.
Yes, absolutely.

There are ways to waste the money that wouldn't help much.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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MediumTex wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: My impression is that "evangelical" in American socio-political parlance is a synonym for "born-again Christian." Born-again Christians follow the school of thought that once you believe in Jesus as your lord and savior, that's it, you're good to go, free pass into heaven. So why would they need to keep going to church? They've already gotten their golden tickets.
Like I said, you would have to ask an "evangelical" your question.  Your impression is not consistent with Lutheran doctrine.  I would say that I am born again however - it happened in my baptism as an infant which was totally God's work and zero of mine.  It was then I received the gift of the Holy Spirit whose job is to make Christ known to me.  I do not subscribe to the "once saved always saved" view; I was saved, 2000 years ago by what Christ did on the cross, but I can lose that salvation if I drift into unbelief, usually that would happen by refusing to go to where God has promised to be .... FOR ME! .... in Word and Sacrament.  I sure hope I never do that.  It is somewhat of a paradox - I'm saved completely by God's work, nothing to do with me or my choices.  But I can lose it at anytime if I reject the gift that is freely given by God.  The father of lies prowls around constantly looking for victims - but it is easy for believers to say, begone in the name of Jesus.

... M
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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TennPaGa wrote:
Greg wrote:
MediumTex wrote: If you went to my church, they might suggest that you get dipped again, just to be safe.
Image

I'm pretty sure there was an episode about not double dipping.
:D
I think that the Jewish rules are different.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Greg wrote:I'm pretty sure there was an episode about not double dipping.
There certainly was!
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Pointedstick wrote: It's all emotional. Someone who hates Hillary Clinton doesn't hate her because she supported the State Children's Health Insurance program. It's because of her (perceived) personality, habits, attitudes, priorities, and outlooks. It's what makes a person think, "She's looking out for someone like me!" or "She seems like she hates people like me."
She would make a terrible president because she has absolutely no regard for the Constitution or Bill of Rights, in addition to being a pathological liar and the poster child for political corruption with her "Clinton Foundation", not to mention all the scandals from the 1980's.

Is that an emotional position or a logical one? I say it's logical not to want to have such a person as president.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Pointedstick wrote: TennPaGa hit the nail on the head: she gives off poor vibes. It's hard to articulate just what this means but it's definitely a thing. I don't hate Hillary Clinton by any stretch of the imagination, but I absolutely feel "bad vibes" when I see her speaking in video form. Everything about her just rubs me wrong. She seems tense, nervous, worried, but papered over with a thin veneer of joviality that seems totally out of place. Always calculating in a too-obvious way. Trying too hard to act out a persona that doesn't fit her. Trying awkwardly to be everything to everybody but clearly meaning none of it. Visibly ill, damaged, falling apart, but trying (badly) to conceal it.

I dunno, she just feels almost like a fake person to me. Like a space alien in a human suit trying to convince people that it's one of them. It's like she's permanently stuck in the uncanny valley or something.

Honestly I probably agree with 40% or more of her platform but every neuron in my brain tells me not to vote for the insecure space alien in a malfunctioning human suit.
Please tell us which 40% of her platform you agree with. I can't think of a single example of that myself.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Libertarian666 wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: It's all emotional. Someone who hates Hillary Clinton doesn't hate her because she supported the State Children's Health Insurance program. It's because of her (perceived) personality, habits, attitudes, priorities, and outlooks. It's what makes a person think, "She's looking out for someone like me!" or "She seems like she hates people like me."
She would make a terrible president because she has absolutely no regard for the Constitution or Bill of Rights, in addition to being a pathological liar and the poster child for political corruption with her "Clinton Foundation", not to mention all the scandals from the 1980's.

Is that an emotional position or a logical one? I say it's logical not to want to have such a person as president.
Honestly, even if I agreed with almost everything Hillary believed, I still probably wouldn't vote for her.

She annoys me that much.

And to go from a cool laid back black dude to Hillary (regardless of how you feel about their beliefs), how jarring would that be?  That would be like going from The Stray Cats to a cat being strangled with piano wire.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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MediumTex wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: It's all emotional. Someone who hates Hillary Clinton doesn't hate her because she supported the State Children's Health Insurance program. It's because of her (perceived) personality, habits, attitudes, priorities, and outlooks. It's what makes a person think, "She's looking out for someone like me!" or "She seems like she hates people like me."
She would make a terrible president because she has absolutely no regard for the Constitution or Bill of Rights, in addition to being a pathological liar and the poster child for political corruption with her "Clinton Foundation", not to mention all the scandals from the 1980's.

Is that an emotional position or a logical one? I say it's logical not to want to have such a person as president.
Honestly, even if I agreed with almost everything Hillary believed, I still probably wouldn't vote for her.

She annoys me that much.

And to go from a cool laid back black dude to Hillary (regardless of how you feel about their beliefs), how jarring would that be?  That would be like going from The Stray Cats to a cat being strangled with piano wire.
That's a strange stance to me.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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jafs wrote:
MediumTex wrote: Honestly, even if I agreed with almost everything Hillary believed, I still probably wouldn't vote for her.

She annoys me that much.

And to go from a cool laid back black dude to Hillary (regardless of how you feel about their beliefs), how jarring would that be?  That would be like going from The Stray Cats to a cat being strangled with piano wire.
That's a strange stance to me.
Would you support and vote for Donald Trump if you agreed with most or all of his platform, but he retained his stage personality of today?
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Yes, if his policies were closer to mine than any other candidates.

I vote based on policy, not personality.

There are some "deal breakers" for me, though, also, like torture.  The fact that he advocates torture might outweigh a lot of other policy agreement in my book.

Fortunately, it's not even a remote possibility - those surveys you can do which compare your preferences to the candidates' policies show clearly that his policies and mine are far apart in most cases.
Last edited by jafs on Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Libertarian666 wrote: Please tell us which 40% of her platform you agree with. I can't think of a single example of that myself.
apparently it's 54%:

[img width=400]https://i.imgur.com/ngM3IQC.png[/img]

Try it yourself! You might find more in common than you realize. http://www.isidewith.com
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Desert wrote:
TennPaGa wrote: I moved the non-Hillary religion stuff to the Figuring Out Religion thread.

-- TPG
Oops, sorry about that guys.  It was clearly Mountaineer's fault though. 

Now back to Hillary:

This is an interesting "coincidence:" 
Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton insists she did nothing wrong by running all of her government communications, including classified material, through her unsecured, home-brewed computer server. Perhaps she’s forgotten one of her husband’s final acts in the Oval Office: issuing a presidential pardon to former CIA director John Deutch. Deutch’s offense? Keeping classified material on unsecured home computers.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -documents
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -documents
I don't think she has forgotten at all. I think she's counting on a pardon from Obama if she is indicted before he leaves office. Of course she could pardon herself if she is elected!
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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Pointedstick wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:03 am
Libertarian666 wrote: Please tell us which 40% of her platform you agree with. I can't think of a single example of that myself.
apparently it's 54%:

Image

Try it yourself! You might find more in common than you realize. http://www.isidewith.com


The above URL still works! Only now it is set up for the 2020 election. Only takes a few minutes to give your answers to all the questions.


Here were my results:




Capture1.JPG
Capture1.JPG (77.53 KiB) Viewed 3148 times
Capture2.JPG
Capture2.JPG (59.68 KiB) Viewed 3148 times

I could vote for any of them except for:

Warren
Sanders
Biden
Trump

Don't know who Delaney is! So, also probably would not vote for him!

My top four remain:

Yang
Buttigieg
Klobuchar
Gabbard

If any of my "won't vote fors (Warren / Sanders / Biden)" are running against Trump, I'm voting for a third party. Or, do a write-in vote for my favorite cat!

In the Democratic primary, it's going to be Klobuchar.

Is there ANYONE here who'd NOT be voting for Trump??!!!

Vinny
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Re: The Real Hillary Shady

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vnatale wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:50 pm
The above URL still works! Only now it is set up for the 2020 election. Only takes a few minutes to give your answers to all the questions.
Oops! Looks like I'm gonna be a Nazi ^-^
Don't know who Delaney is! So, also probably would not vote for him!
Delaney was one of the few (or the only) sane people at the first Democratic debates.
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